What about Mystic Knight?

All I been seeing in the forums as our potential new jobs are RDM, SAM, DNC, and BLU but what about mystic knight? Many have speculated that if RDM was introduced MYS would be mixed into the job but now that we have seen a preview of RDM it looks like MYS toolkit will not be a part of the job so perhaps our next tank is MYS they do tend to be Tanky. And we have seen enspell used by ala mhigans.

Mystic Knight is already intergrated into DRK in a sense or so I believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBelmont

Mystic Knight is already intergrated into DRK in a sense or so I believe.

---

Care to explain that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Care to explain that?

---

I assume they mean traditional 'mystic knight' spells have been given to dark knight.

Anyway, I dont think we need new tanks, or new healers. We need a greater variety of [damage] spell casters. I guess the announced red mage fits that a little but a pure caster is preferable for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

I assume they mean traditional 'mystic knight' spells have been given to dark knight.

Anyway, I dont think we need new tanks, or new healers. We need a greater variety of [damage] spell casters. I guess the announced red mage fits that a little but a pure caster is preferable for me.

---

While I would love a new tank~ You're right... We don't -need- it. But I mean. We don't need another spell caster either. That's silly to say.

With Red mage will be a magic dps, so if it comes to what we "need" we'll be getting a physical ranged.

Tank - PLD WAR DRK
Heal - WHM SCH AST
Melee - DRG MNK NIN
Magic Ranged - BLM SMN RDM
Physical Ranged - MCH BRD ???

But I think its silly to even say "need". Its not really about need, its about what do we want, what will people play and what will bring more people in.

DRK, the tank, was the most successful of the HW jobs, so I don't think its fair to count out the possibility of getting another tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anarnee

That's silly to say. With Red mage will be a magic dps, so if it comes to what we "need" we'll be getting a physical ranged.

---

That is one dimension. They still have term of gear sharing theme and status too.

For status type term:

VIT Class - PLD WAR DRK
STR Class - DRG MNK ???
DEX Class - BRD NIN MCH
INT Class - BLM SMN RDM
MND Class - WHM SCH AST

For gear sharing theme term:
Tank - PLD WAR DRK
Heal - WHM SCH AST
Ranged Magical - BLM SMN RDM
Ranged Physical - BRD NIN MCH
Light armor melee -MNK NIN (even they use different main stat but they share same theme, def value and fast pace attacking)
Heavy armor melee - DRG (Higher def than striking and scouting, slower attacking)

When counting order of new job:
2.0 - 1 Caster, 1 Heal
2.4 - 1 DEX Melee
3.0 - 1 Tank, 1 Heal, 1 DEX ranged
4.0 - 1 Caster, ???
No any STR Job

If you check all aspect, STR melee DPS (especially Heavy type) should add the job for sharing their gear more than other job that have 2 or 3 jobs shaing it already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBelmont

Mystic Knight is already intergrated into DRK in a sense or so I believe.

---

How so? Mystic knight deal with enspells as for tanking mechanics there is many different approaches. They can be a magic tank, parry tank, or heck Enfeebling tank there are many ways to make tanks feel different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kemonologist

That is one dimension. They still have term of gear sharing theme and status too.

---

Except, that's not really how the Dev team classifies the jobs. I think you're looking too hard for a correlation there.

MNK/NIN only share up to 50, past then they have their own gear sets.

Regardless, that was beside the point. The point was we don't -need- any new classes at all. We want them. No class type should be ruled out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightshadow

How so? Mystic knight deal with enspells as for tanking mechanics there is many different approaches. They can be a magic tank, parry tank, or heck Enfeebling tank there are many ways to make tanks feel different.

---

2 of the 3 tanks are already magic-leaning jobs though for starters. And there's nothing you described that also can't be applied to something like Samurai, which has vastly much more appeal and popularity and is more of a staple of Final Fantasy games than mystic knight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anarnee

Except, that's not really how the Dev team classifies the jobs. I think you're looking too hard for a correlation there.

MNK/NIN only share up to 50, past then they have their own gear sets.

Regardless, that was beside the point. The point was we don't -need- any new classes at all. We want them. No class type should be ruled out.

---

"-need-" has nothing to do with it.SE has... "hinted" at multiple jobs being released in HW, be it 2, 3, whatever. maybe we dont "-need-" any more, but we are getting them. so the forums have been abuzz about speculating what they could be and why.

the game seems to differentiate based on roles, rather than gear sets. both DRG and MNK have different gear sets despite being both STR based, while BRD and MCH are lumped together. even if there are reasons for such, there's still that split there.
That said, up until now, the roles have been rather evenly spread
tanks: 3
healers: 3
dps: 7 (8)
-melee DPS: 3
-ranged DPS: 4 (5)

The game further makes no difference between physical or ranged based on roles, iirc. The only content that i know of that differentiates the DPS is Feast and even in 8v8, you can have 2 mch, or 2 brd.

From a purely role "gap" perspective, a melee DPS would actually even the options out, since with RDM, you now have 5 ranged options for your players compared to 3. adding onto that, it would actually be quite convenient to have that melee DPS have high armor and use STR.... SAM would fit into that quite nicely, and it was one of the 2 jobs brought up in the Rising.. next to RDM... which we got.

Granted, if we were to assume we only get 2 jobs and both are DPS? well.... those queue times for DPS on SB launch are gonna be somethin' fierce.

I wouldn't worry about the queues. Career tanks and healers still need to level up too. You'd queue like trials, expert, amd maybe guildhest roulettes, doing fates while waiting. Then the rest of the day you'd queue potd which can ignore roles. Maybe you'll be able.to do dungeons with your squadron. After reaching 6o, MSQ and side questing/exploring while queued for the same roulettes or level appropriate dungeons.


We've seen maybe around 20% of RDM skill animations. It could still make use of an enchanted blade (as a constant melee damage buff like NIN poisons) as a neat and tidy way to make all of its damage driven by INT and magical. It could have a few MYS skills mixed in like say an oGCD Drain Blade or Osmose Blade cooldown, or really any elementally charged weaponskill...

Too much missing info to rule it out yet IMO, but given the descriptions we've been given, it sounds like it'd be a very minor thing if any MYS elements are present at all.


I really like seeing people explain how there needs to be a balanced number of x type jobs, and we're short one of these so the next job will be that type. They must come from non-Final Fantasy games mostly, because there aren't many tank or healer jobs, and the dev team has shown us they have trouble balancing jobs in these roles so far. We're at a point where we have some of everything and anything can be added. But we'll probably be getting mostly DPS from now on, of whatever subtype. It'd come down mostly to what makes sense for a given iconic job, with some room for twisitng a bit (like tank DRK bc heavy armor) or mish-mashing 2 jobs as one (like RNG/BRD and THF/NIN).

So I'd love a Mystic Knight, been my favourite class for basically ever. However, doesn't the pugilist/monk already sortof infringe on this teritory with it's fists of earth/wind/fire? It isn't like red mage not having it saves the class from "elementally charged weapon" redundancy.

Maybe Mystic Knight could be whatever the heck Alisaie is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

"-need-" has nothing to do with it.SE has... "hinted" at multiple jobs being released in HW, be it 2, 3, whatever. maybe we dont "-need-" any more, but we are getting them. so the forums have been abuzz about speculating what they could be and why.

---

I am quite aware of that and that is the point that I have been making in every post .__.

The game doesn't make that distinction? Yes it does! Ranged Physical and Ranged Magical have different LB and the devs when comparing don't usually lump them all together. They share a queue slot but other than that, they usually are not all lumped together. Heck, there's even mechanics in VA that makes Ranged Physical/Mage choose a different target based on physical vs ranged.

The thing is, if they add 2 DPS what about Duty queue ?
Everyone will want to try those new ones, at least when they are out and when it was not really a probleme with HW cause one of each, we'll end up with huge queue times oO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celef

The thing is, if they add 2 DPS what about Duty queue ?
Everyone will want to try those new ones, at least when they are out and when it was not really a probleme with HW cause one of each, we'll end up with huge queue times oO

---

2.X did not have very much non-role based content. PotD and possibly Diadem should make things easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

Anyway, I dont think we need new tanks, or new healers.

---

Yeah, forget those guys. Boring roles anyways right?

I got so sick of hearing this, we don't need more of anything! The game would be in a fine state since the original ARR jobs, adding more jobs is to keep variety rolling which there is plenty of for DPS and to keep people hooked to their existing roles.

I've heard melee's want a new DPS and I also think they 100% deserve a new job, but most would just stay on their current melee if one didn't get added. Meanwhile tank players are very willing to jump boat if a new cool melee DPS comes out, cough cough SAM cough cough. I for sure will be off specing SAM if it does come out as melee DPS and doing DF stuff with it, while raiding as Tank still. I can wait in queue as well, got plenty to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

2.X did not have very much non-role based content. PotD and possibly Diadem should make things easier.

---

Yes because nothing is more exciting in a new expansion than being forced into last expansion's content in order to level from 60-70. Doesn't solve how they will be halted from progressing the Main Story because it'll be locked behind dungeons every few levels.

If they care at all about the health of this game, they will not release only DPS for an expansion. There's a reason why every expansion of WoW's that released a new class made sure that class had a tank spec, and we know that Yoshida and his team very much pay attention to Blizzard's successes and mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Yes because nothing is more exciting in a new expansion than being forced into last expansion's content in order to level from 60-70. Doesn't solve how they will be halted from progressing the Main Story because it'll be locked behind dungeons every few.

---

Exactly. I think when a new expansion comes out... people don't want to go back to old content for a while, this would make a terrible launch on a shinny new expansion filled with new content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Yes because nothing is more exciting in a new expansion than being forced into last expansion's content in order to level from 60-70. Doesn't solve how they will be halted from progressing the Main Story because it'll be locked behind dungeons every few levels.

---

Not everyone is going to jump to the new jobs first and not everyone will try to level the new jobs 60 to 70 with the MSQ. A large amount of the queue jam with the new jobs at launch is going to be in 50 to 60 content just like how much of the queue jam in HW was in 30 to 50 content. Roleless content, the possibility of running dungeons with squadrons and changes to how chocobos function should spread out the player base much better than HW's "only way to level is with dungeons or FATEs" system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katana190

Exactly. I think when a new expansion comes out... people don't want to go back to old content for a while, this would make a terrible launch on a shinny new expansion filled with new content.

---

RDM and any other new jobs are starting at level 50 not the current cap of 60 (unlike Blizzard which put their new classes directly into new content). Anyone leveling the new jobs will be leveling with "old" content first.

Dark Knight fills pretty much the exact role that Mystic Knight has had in previous FF Games... I don't know why they decided to make Dark Knight do that, but it would make the classic Mystic Knight class redundant.

Though I do suppose they could add a DPS version of the class...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

The game further makes no difference between physical or ranged based on roles, iirc.

---

Raid Finder actually does look for 1 melee, 1 physical ranged, 1 magical (ranged) and 1 filler. And 8vs8 Feast by now has no role requirement whatsoever anymore :p You can get in with no healers present.

I play as Tank and Healer and I tottally disagree when people say we don't "need" another Tank or Healer. You're being selfish, because we tanks and healers would love something different, even more a Tank that doesn't use a "tank weapon" like Sword, Axe, Katana... And I would definatelu stick to Healer Role if they put DNC, which I've been wanting since tge beginning (DNC was my fav job in FFT). I liked that RDM os coming but I'm not a DPS guy, and I know I'm not alone in this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

So I'd love a Mystic Knight, been my favourite class for basically ever. However, doesn't the pugilist/monk already sort of infringe on this teritory with it's fists of earth/wind/fire? It isn't like red mage not having it saves the class from "elementally charged weapon" redundancy.

---

Fist of element and en-element are watered down- just added damage, and in mnk's case its 3 weak buffs and only 1 is damage. Basically 3 stances. Mystic knight skills are like actual black magic spells delivered by a weapon. The majority of them were element weakness exploitation, which we don't have in XIV. So since weaponskills and combos already deliver things like debuffs, dots, and buffs to the attacker spellblade effects would be more of the same, really just styling the attack animations I think, or like mnk fistd and nin poisons, stances.


I think it'd be cool if RDM (or MYS) had a Runic cooldown. Absorbing a portion of magic damage either personally or party wide and converting it into mp recovered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightshadow

All I been seeing in the forums as our potential new jobs are RDM, SAM, DNC, and BLU but what about mystic knight? Many have speculated that if RDM was introduced MYS would be mixed into the job but now that we have seen a preview of RDM it looks like MYS toolkit will not be a part of the job so perhaps our next tank is MYS they do tend to be Tanky. And we have seen enspell used by ala mhigans.

---

Mystic Knight could easily be made into its own thing. Assuming I had any say in the matter, I'd probably go for use of magic shields (like the shields used by Mystic Knights in Dragon's Dogma). Probably some form of defensive buffs to keep up plus the standard slew of enmity combos. I did a write up for it a while back but it was ignored so I assumed no one liked it. >.>

I am sorry if this was said already but I wanna get this out asap. Mystic Knight is coming in the form of RDM. The devs said so during the reveal. Sometimes to make RDM be more unique or give it better end game potential, they give them the traditional Mystic Knight ability. And in games without jobs, characters that are RDMish have had similar skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blazinhart

I play as Tank and Healer and I tottally disagree when people say we don't "need" another Tank or Healer. You're being selfish, because we tanks and healers would love something different, even more a Tank that doesn't use a "tank weapon" like Sword, Axe, Katana... And I would definatelu stick to Healer Role if they put DNC, which I've been wanting since tge beginning (DNC was my fav job in FFT). I liked that RDM os coming but I'm not a DPS guy, and I know I'm not alone in this.

---

I agree with you. I main as a healer. Tanks and healers would appreciate a little more variety. DPS already have a large section to choose from. Why should DPS get two new jobs? I would a love a healing class that doesn't use shields or regene lol. They need to show the healers and tanks some love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Roleless content, the possibility of running dungeons with squadrons and changes to how chocobos function should spread out the player base much better than HW's "only way to level is with dungeons or FATEs" system.

---

For one, the squadron dungeons certainly won't be around for the launch of 4.0, as well as us having no solid information on how exactly that is going to work in terms of experience gained etc. So you can't try and use that as justification. And the chocobo function changes nothing really, it just makes doing fates while queued for a dungeon a bit easier but people still did that before. We also don't know that PotD will be viable experience wise upon release of 4.0. The level 50 dungeons gave zero experience when 3.0 launched and we could see the same happen with PotD. All of those things might help when leveling the new jobs from 50-60 but doesn't do much to help from 60-70, on top of the fact many players will not continue their mains first in order to play the new jobs, and if those new jobs are only dps roles, then you're taking away tank and Healer players from their more needed roles in queues/content.

Quote:

---

RDM and any other new jobs are starting at level 50 not the current cap of 60 (unlike Blizzard which put their new classes directly into new content). Anyone leveling the new jobs will be leveling with "old" content first.

---

WoW's monk started at level 1...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

I assume they mean traditional 'mystic knight' spells have been given to dark knight.

Anyway, I dont think we need new tanks, or new healers. We need a greater variety of [damage] spell casters. I guess the announced red mage fits that a little but a pure caster is preferable for me.

---

.. We have three tanks and three healers.. We have plenty of DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celef

The thing is, if they add 2 DPS what about Duty queue ?
Everyone will want to try those new ones, at least when they are out and when it was not really a probleme with HW cause one of each, we'll end up with huge queue times oO

---

Well, deal with it?

First 1-2 weeks in HW adventurer in need was dps, because edgeknight is edgy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celef

The thing is, if they add 2 DPS what about Duty queue ?
Everyone will want to try those new ones, at least when they are out and when it was not really a probleme with HW cause one of each, we'll end up with huge queue times oO

---

as a dedicated DPS, I have no problem with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hagare

as a dedicated DPS, I have no problem with it.

---

Selfish answer, as most "pure" DPSs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yellow

.. We have three tanks and three healers.. We have plenty of DPS.

---

More correctly, we have 3 tanks, 3 healers and 7 DPS. The actual role distribution among the playerbase used to be around 19/19/62 (Eorzea Census 2015) and now sits around 21/23/56 or so (http://ff14net.2chblog.jp/archives/50236197.html). That doesn't say anything about who plays what actively however, that's just who has jobs leveled (31-60) and the full 60 distribution is 23/23/54.

That said, I would rather get rid of roles entirely. Failing that, more content that is role independent. It isn't even hard to create that - simply scratch unavoidable damage from the equation and put actual mechanics instead. Then we can stop worrying about quotas and make jobs based on their fantasy - which sometimes will be more on the damaging, sometimes more on the tanky or support side. Whatever.