Another Platform primal in 3.5, is this how all of them will be in the future jc?

Serious question, So I only been playing a few months but I'm just a bit curious like did the player base asked for more platforms for primals. I'm just curious , I got the sense that people thought Thornmarch , or Ramuh , where fairly challenging judging from guides Ive seen and stuff like that.

I watched the trailer , for new patch I'm excited I hope this gets people happy about the game judging from the forums sometimes I'm weary, no complaints here I love the game. But I notice the next extreme primal looks like yet another platform or die primal, I wanted to try Sophia extreme ill be honest I'm just not amazing at these platform fights. I mean I don't feel like I'm the only one even when Ive run titan extreme and stuff with friends, a lot of people fall off I've seen. But I guess I just don't wana feel like I'm a crappy player just because I cant stay on a platform. I always feel like if things are on the ground I can do it, I can do the platform ones as well ,but why does every single one of them have to be platform are die pretty much in hw(I havent done any just from seeing the vidoes).

Is it the only way people are truly challenged, is to have that mechanic in every single fight, if that where so then I wouldn't figure that any of the Arr primals that where mostly level ground but titan and leviathan where even challenging. Is it maybe people wanted more platform because that's the only real challenge but its just a question, I wasn't here for the transition to hw at first so I'm just curious is this just something the fan base wanted or if its just something that developed over time in the devs vision for the game. And I know that even savage Alexander isnt something you can fall off of so I know its not the only form of a challenge. To be clear Im not asking for no platform fights at all , Im just saying is a mix of the two type of fights a bad thing ,like it was in Arr. Please dont just reply with a get good comment, Its a serious question, I have also experience lag from time to time on this game despite having a great pc, but lag is ok for dodging not really so much if your one second off and you can fall off and die.

Nothing's more fun then platform bosses, one miss step and you fall lol, honeslty I like it.

I like platforms as well. Keeps you aware of your surroundings, instead of staring at the ground, waiting for the next AOE to avoid. Sophia is too forgiving, with being able to be raised after falling, IMO.

It's just one way of testing a player's coordination and area awareness. They've been including similar mechanics for a while, though I haven't seen anyone specifically requesting it. In ARR, you can fall off in both Titan and Leviathan EX. Shiva is similar in the you get frozen to the edge if you are knocked into it (though you don't die immediately and can be freed).

For Heavenward primals, neither Thordan nor Nighogg has a falling mechanic, but they have plenty other awareness checks that can kill players just the same. And with Sophia EX, falling off no longer locks you out from the rest of the fight, as you can be rezzed. I believe they mentioned the new trial would be doing this as well, so at least it seems that they might continue this going forward.

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Originally Posted by Powe

Nothing's more fun then platform bosses, one miss step and you fall lol, honeslty I like it.

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Yup, and you can't cheese that one, no matter how high your ilvl is. You fall: You die.

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Originally Posted by Powe

Nothing's more fun then platform bosses, one miss step and you fall lol, honeslty I like it.

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Im not saying its not fun Im just saying that , Alexander is like this, nor thordan, thormarch , ramuh , some people think odin is fairly challenging, Im just asking for more of a mix up than every single new one being the same thing. When the ones from Arr arent, its not necessary for every last one of them to be like this if you can still make it a challenge. Whats the word balance is all Im asking for, not tryin to take anything away from anyone.

Sophia is fine cause you can still raise them after they fall (as opposed to Leviathan and Titan).

i'm okay with this, much better than another boss fought inside another circle.

i'd prefer they have more arenas like Binding Coil Turn 1.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Im not saying its not fun Im just saying that , Alexander is like this, nor thordan, thormarch , ramuh , some people think odin is fairly challenging, Im just asking for more of a mix up than every single new one being the same thing.

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Thordan ex had a "go outside the platform and die" mechanic too in the acid pit around the arena after phase one and the constant knockbacks after it goes up. You can still be revived after dying in them, but you could be revived after falling off in Sophia ex too.

I can't speak for SE's intentions obviously, but one obvious benefit to platform bosses is that over-gearing is much less likely to eliminate all risk. That's a plus, considering how much vertical scaling SE employs for itemization.

You differentiate between the types as platform and non-platform, but really they both come down the same thing: pay attention and do the mechanics correctly, or fail.

The difference really only comes into play much later, when everyone way out gears the fight, and may be able to just cheese through "non-platform primals" without bothering to do, or even know, the mechanics.

imo if someone is unable to do the mechanics properly, they do not serve to clear the primal when it is current. Maybe unpopular, but that is my personal opinion.

Having said that, by your definition, Ramuh Ex is not a platform primal, and in my experience of roulette, this is by far the hardest primal to pug. It requires a degree of co-ordination, people paying attention, and managing mechanics accordingly, and a large portion of the playerbase just seem incapabale of doing that. I reached a thousand mentor roulettes yesterday, and have only ever cleared Ramuh Ex once whenever it's put me in there.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Sophia is fine cause you can still raise them after they fall (as opposed to Leviathan and Titan).

i'm okay with this, much better than another boss fought inside another circle.

i'd prefer they have more arenas like Binding Coil Turn 1.

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I mostly play tank or healer so , actually dying at all isnt something I like to do, as it can ruin a run if I die I really enjoy like you mention turn one in coil. Someone mention even on thordan you can fall off, so that really leaves none where no type of falling off mechanic is in the hw well aside from someone mentioning nidhogg.

walls come down in 11s final phase as well, while there is no sort of tilt mechanic, there is still a possibility of falling off. with that being said most tilt mechanics are easily managed once they are known and having standard situational awareness required for most HW EX primals. having no walls really doesn't make a fight harder in my opinion since most bosses are tanked in center of arena. primarily it comes down to proper execution of mechanics which if you can perform then regardless of walls or not you should be able to clear.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I mostly play tank or healer so , actually dying at all isnt something I like to do, as it can ruin a run if I die I really enjoy like you mention turn one in coil. Someone mention even on thordan you can fall off, so that really leaves none where no type of falling off mechanic is in the hw well aside from someone mentioning nidhogg.

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Thordan and Nidhogg are the only two primals where you cannot fall. Nidhogg has no barrier effects, while the rest have you fall and Thordan has a 9999-damage barrier (as in it ticks for 9999).

To be honest, this is a simple case of Git Gud.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

You differentiate between the types as platform and non-platform, but really they both come down the same thing: pay attention and do the mechanics correctly, or fail.

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I guess for some people, but for me like titan I never die to mechanics in that fight, nor do many people I've ran it with death only comes from falling off the platform. Levitation you would think you are still in normal mood until the gates come off that actually makes it even an extreme, not that Ive done this fight much the ques for these arr primals are extremely long.

With shiva she just has a ton of mechanics and I have seen quite a few parties abandon on her, are die to her mechanics, Thormarch is just a bunch of craziness but I find that more fun than say a titan because its not a you get knocked off and your done. And as I mention savage alexander doesn't have this feature and its suppose to be the hardest content in the game. I just don't see that they are the same thing, Id rather have a bunch of one hit kill mechanics than just every last new primal with some sort of falling off and your done mechanic, I dont mind a mix but all of them is just a bit overkill.

(And I dont count any unsync primals I did as a clear, I want even take the horses from the old ones if its unsync so I agree with you on this, I only count the ones I did sync as actually clearing or deserving of the reward of that primal.)

It's weird that Garuda isn't one of them since her song said "now fall".

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I guess for some people, but for me like titan I never die to mechanics in that fight, nor do many people I've ran it with death only comes from falling off the platform.

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If you're falling off of Titan's platform, then your either failing a mechanic (landslide) or derping (walking off).

I'm fairly indifferent about it, because even if you don't fall, it'll just have some other ridic punishing mechanic that either directly or indirectly takes you out of the game for a while, because that's the only way a failed mechanic has any consequences whatsoever with healers being as powerful as they are.

So yeah...I don't care "how" I am instagibbed for failing a mechanic. Might as well fall off.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Thordan and Nidhogg are the only two primals where you

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Falling off a platform isnt a display of skill tho in my opinion its just an annoyance , and I also havent done these either so the get good before Ive even done them is unwarranted. I was just asking a question on what was with the sudden change in approach, that all of them are platform based fights.

People die in The Chrysalis, Urth's Fount, The Minstrel's Ballad: Ultima's Bane, the mechanics here can make it to where even a hard mood trail can make people die Ive seen it several times. I've seen many people die to Shiva extreme mechanics, another player said they have only cleared ramuh once, and it doesn't have these mechanics I said in my post I didnt say remove this Im just asking where are just the ground based ones in comparison. And lets not act like lag isnt apart of this game they have had to address this issue several times just sense Ive been playing alone on these type of fights having any lag just makes it a pain.

It makes sense that all the Warring Triad fights are on platforms, given you're so high in the air in Azys Lla, in containment cells. I don't really care if it's a platform with push-off mechanics that will instantly kill you. You don't need to worry about it as long as you handle the mechanics correctly, as others have stated.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And lets not act like lag isnt apart of this game they have had to address this issue several times just sense Ive been playing alone on these type of fights having any lag just makes it a pain.

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Lag can happen for several reasons that have nothing to do with SE or the game. It's more than likely to do with your ISP and routing. Or, you're talking about the 3-second server tick that is simply part of the game's design.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

It makes sense that all the Warring Triad fights are on .

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But its pretty different tho , as a tank if I by some chance barely get out of a mechanic and I get hit then fine ill get healed are use a high potion or whatever use a defensive buff. Ill survive, on this type of platform fights if that same hit has a knock back and just knock me off the platform then thats it Im done , so essentially that would make me a bad player because I didnt avoid one hit from a mechanic. That is what the difference is in these platform fights and non platform fights where one mistake will cause you to be completely out of the fight totally, cause you missed that dodge by one tenth of a second it could literally happen to anyone. So the mechanics are totally different here defensive buffs dont actually work if you have just been thrown off the platform.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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If that's happening, it sounds like you're moving too late. First time I encountered this was Titan Extreme, where it forced you to learn that you can't dodge last minute. You never finish casts, you move immediately and there's no such thing as jumping out of mechanics. Everything you do, casting spells, dodging, popping cooldowns or applying things (virus, disable, sacred soil, etc.) has to account for the possibility of a 3 second check (server tick). If you fail that check, you're hit or the affect doesn't apply in time. As long as you keep that in mind and apply things accordingly, you won't die. FFXIV is more timing based and doesn't apply instantly like most other MMOs.

Unless your ping is just that bad, which is something you would need to fix and has nothing to do with SE.

What's wrong with forcing people to actually pay attention to where they're standing? It's not like Titan EX anymore, where getting clipped by a Landslide meant instant death... And for the record, I enjoy that fight. Every platform fight now gives you ample warning that you're about to be flung. And all of them require the entire group to move to the same spots, so it's not like it's an individual mechanic. It's no different than any other fight, where you die/screw the group by being out of place. Seph has the blue circles, which require all 8 players to be in the right spots, especially to bait Yesod. Sophia requires all 8 players to watch tethers/meteors, or fall off. If the 7 other players in your group can do something that gives you several seconds of warning so they don't fall off, you really have no excuse for standing there while the rest of your group runs.

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Originally Posted by Isala

What's wrong with forcing people to actually pay attention to where they're standing? It's not like Titan EX anymore, where getting clipped by a

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Well I mention I haven't done any of them, that's what I said in my post Ive just done Leviathan and titan extreme as far as the falling off type fights. So my experience is with knowing what titan extreme is like, its my least fav of all the arr primals. So I can only go by videos Ive watched as far as guides, and my question was why are all these platforms and only two of the ones in Arr where platform based. I was wondering if this was something that was constantly being asked for before I started playing the game.

Also if these type fights are the only type of mechanics where you feel like its a challenge, and I mention others that judging from the guides by mizz tech and mr happy that wernt platform based, but still presented a challenge for the base. I was just asking for a mix of both styles instead of this same mechanic in every trail, I have done most of the ground based Arr ones , no problem, titan is a problem every time I go in for me personally because of the platform, so Im just worried that these mechanics will cause me to not even be able to do any of the hw primals just because of the platforms. And also I mention I know I'm not the only player either I have seen many friends fall off of titan extreme basically every time I go in with an undersized it happens.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Also if these type fights are the only type of mechanics where you feel like its a challenge,

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They're not even challenging. That's my point. The HW ones are literally "follow your party to win." because you have all the time in the world to get to your proper locations. Seph literally only has the two fling points. The ones where you have to do the blue circle dance, and the one where you stand in his face for the knockback. Sophia tilts all the time, yes, but again. Follow the party, since the tethers last several seconds before tilting happens. And, unlilke any other primal, if you screw up and fall, you can be ressed on Sophia.

And let's be fair, your friends aren't falling off Titan EX because it's hard. They're falling off because they're screwing up mechanics, and Titan is the only ARR primal unforgiving enough to punish them for it still. Unlike all the other trials, Titan's mechanics can't be cheesed with a high enough ilvl.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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You said

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I'm just not amazing at these platform fights.

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So you have experience, so the "Git Gud", is kind of warranted since you already said you are not amazing at platform fights meaning you've already done some.

In regards to your Alexander savage has no falling so you don't need falling for a challenging fight remark. I think the fundamental difference between the kind of difficulty in of mechanics in savage versus primal is that the mechanics of savage require team coordination to complete whereas the mechanics of ex primals 'platform fights' require mostly individual awareness. There have been fights that require more team coordination (less death platform), thordan ex, nid ex are the hardest primals, tho some will disagree I'm sure. (Nidex was 50% wtf ppl get your tethers right and 50%wtf dps check) I think falling is probably the easiest way to have a no-coordination required, high risk, but also easily avoided mechanic that keeps everyone on their toes during a fight.

Yeah I'm starting to get platform weariness. New concept, please. This just feels rehashed at this point.

Platforms! Musical platforms, which one's gonna fall next, no body knows!

I'd like to see that actually, have a block of like 16 platforms at the start that all start randomly falling until either there's only one left or the party wipes.

what i'd hope they bring back are big arenas (yeah it's a nightmare to balance, mechanics wise) like t5 or t1 where it's not really a circle or a square arena (really for the whole of 3.X so far and the latter half of ARR) and give you a feeling that you're not confined in a small space. and/or maybe give us open field boss fights something scenic for a change...

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Originally Posted by Evangela

It's weird that Garuda isn't one of them since her song said "now fall".

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1.0 primal
falling down started with ARR

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Originally Posted by ErryK

You said



So you have experience, so the "Git Gud", is kind of warranted since you already said you are not amazing at platform fights meaning you've already done some.

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Not with those mention , for one nobody even runs the actual arr primals on my server , so its not like I have had chances to go in do these fights very much as is. Titan extreme is my experience , so I guess if you want to u can just take my experience from that fight to widely cover the rest of them but ok. I was just simply saying can we just have more variety than the same thing yea some people may like platforms may be there thing but they arent the only ones that play the game either just like Im not the only one that plays as well so thats why you mix it up.

The fact that footage of Zurvan's fight prominently features the platform, and then cuts out with a big attack before he seemingly destroys the last segment of said platform, leads me to believe that his fight will in fact subvert the platform structure that characterized both Sephirot and Sophia.

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

The fact that footage of Zurvan's fight prominently features the platform, and then cuts out with a big attack before he seemingly destroys the last segment of said platform, leads me to believe that his fight will in fact subvert the platform structure that characterized both Sephirot and Sophia.

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Just seems a bit overdone with all hw ones having platforms

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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Fair enough. In my opinion, yes, the platform fights are very saturated at the moment. Just like circle arenas are very saturated in this game (in 3.x; Living Liquid, Manipulator, Ravana, Thordan, Sephirot, etc.) and the issue there is, I believe the dev team learns from each other, or they've just not got ideas they can use otherwise. Like, at least with Zurvan, they are making an attempt in differentiating it from other fights like Titan. Same thing with Sophia and Leviathan. In Leviathan, you had to look for the water spout and go the other way, in Sophia, you have to see if it's odd or even and take into account if she's dashing, etc.

Though in all honesty, I would think we would get new mechanics/setups with 4.0 rather than hoping for change in 3.5x, but in any case, that is why this thread is here I guess. :D

Keep the platforms, its the "look away" mechanic that needs to go. It doesn't even make sense...even with your back turned, your character is till looking at the target over their shoulder...just let me zone out in peace grinding for a dumb pigeon!

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Keep the platforms, its the "look away" mechanic that needs to go. It doesn't even make sense...even with your back turned, your character is till looking at the target over their shoulder...just let me zone out in peace grinding for a dumb pigeon!

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The /shuteyes (closeeyes? sorry, can't remember which was it) should have work in this case though, unfortunately it didn't.

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Originally Posted by Neri

The /shuteyes (closeeyes? sorry, can't remember which was it) should have work in this case though, unfortunately it didn't.

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All you have to do is turn around from the target. Even if your character is still targeting the boss and looking at it over their shoulder, as look as it's back is facing the boss, you're fine. But if you're character is looking face forward, you'll be petrified/confused...

...but regardless, your character is still technically looking at the boss in either position. It's just dumb.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Falling off a platform isnt a display of skill tho in my opinion its just an annoyance

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Falling off platforms is just as big a display of skill (or lack thereof) as standing in damage dealing AOEs. The only difference is that it's incredibly obvious to your whole party that you fell off a platform, while you might be able to fly under the radar if you stand in an AOE.

I would like more variety in 4.0 where 'arenas' for fights are concerned. More environmental hazards and interactions that don't involve 'falling off' would be neat. With that said, though, I can see why the developers fall back on encouraging players not to fall off - it keeps a fight at least somewhat challenging even if people outgear it immensely.

Well, generally I only do trial when necessary for main story. Then I am going to ignore this XD

I have noob skill and better I continue ignoring trial hardcore and raid of 8 people o.o