Weapon Throw for melee in frontlines

I can understand it not being needed at all in the feast if you have a competent tank but in frontlines almost all the tanks are "guarding the base" in tank stance or just chasing some brd. Even with 2 competent tanks in the team its not enough to chase 101325 healers that can just kite for days while melee do no damage due to server ticks. Before anyone says "git gud" , I'm not saying its needed but it would definitely help the melee who have to risk their lives to dive into 8 people to kill a healer unlike ranged.

P.S. : I'm totally from a japanese data centre so SE should take this seriously and implement it next patch.

Melee already have Melee LB, they don't need anything else.

All melee have gap closers, though MNK is at an advantage here with the shortest CD. However, DRG and NIN both have ranged attacks whereas MNK does not. Brings me to believe that they took weapon throw out due to this and gave it to tanks who do not have a gap closer. Weapon throw would be nice but it never hinders my ability to play melee. Fetter Ward + some stunning while weaving in hard hitting attacks is key to keeping your target in place and making an impact, as well as trying to time your Sprint correctly.

Melee have skill to close the gap.

Dragoon - Spineshatter dive, Dragonfire Dive, Leg Sweep. and Sprint itself
Monk - Shoulder tackle. Fist of Wind. Steel Peak, Sprint.
Ninja - Hyoton, Overwhelm. Jugulate. Sprint.

Melee are given many options to close the gap. if you can't utilize your skills to close the gap then. It's not the the class's fault, it's You. There have been plenty of times with a coordinated team and Melee DPS always can kill a healer. There's also times when a Healer running away from dps still get caught and died, not because of weapon throw. but because of what they used Above.

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Originally Posted by Yukumazi

Melee have skill to close the gap.

Dragoon - Spineshatter dive, Dragonfire Dive, Leg Sweep. and Sprint itself
Monk - Shoulder tackle. Fist of Wind. Steel Peak, Sprint.
Ninja - Hyoton, Overwhelm. Jugulate. Sprint.

Melee are given many options to close the gap. if you can't utilize your skills to close the gap then. It's not the the class's fault, it's You. There have been plenty of times with a coordinated team and Melee DPS always can kill a healer. There's also times when a Healer running away from dps still get caught a died, not because of weapon throw. but because of what they used Above.

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Apparently you have never chased noct AST in frontlines. They are unkillable. Even with your listed fancy skills. And if your lag is more than 100ms, most of your attacks will miss because the healer in reality a few steps away from you already.

I've seen videos of an AST kiting multiple players pre-nerf and in watching it I realized that it wasn't so much AST was OP but more so that people didn't have the competence in locking down a healer and bursting them down. The video displayed players opening with a stun on a healer, knocking the healer away from melee teammates, breaking ccs preventing the melee to even catch up, simply not bursting, etc. That being said, ASTs are killable, pre-nerf AST it was and even more so with the nerf.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Apparently you have never chased noct AST in frontlines. They are unkillable. Even with your listed fancy skills. And if your lag is more than 100ms, most of your attacks will miss because the healer in reality a few steps away from you already.

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The majority of players don't know how to burst, that has nothing to do with gap closers or latency. Melee distance is even doubled in pvp instances specifically to stop what you're claiming from happening.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Apparently you have never chased noct AST in frontlines. They are unkillable. Even with your listed fancy skills. And if your lag is more than 100ms, most of your attacks will miss because the healer in reality a few steps away from you already.

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Hello. I am an AST. We are perfectly killable if the enemies chasing us have a fraction of an idea of what they are doing. Proper CC and burst goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Proper CC and burst goes a long way.

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You realize you are kinda making a case for why they are OP here...?

Gee, if you want to make a defense, you need to claim things like:"The HPS of a healer can't match the DPS anyway", or "Healers are so squishy, they basically die in a single stun to a DPS" or "Healing a person is far more complex than bursting it", or "Healers can be interrupted, they can't heal when under attack", or "Healers run out of resources far before DPS do" or "Healers don't have much impact on the game anyway, so it doesn't matter if they live or die" or other such things. Replace "Healer" with "AST" at leisure - it doesn't matter, I'm only demonstrating a principle here:

On principle, if you want to argue something not being OP, you need to point out how the counterplay is far easier to successfully pull off than the play in question. You're doing the opposite and the point you're trying to make a disservice.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You realize you are kinda making a case for why they are OP here...?

Gee, if you want to make a defense, you need to claim things like -snip-.

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The Claims you are making don't really change anything if bad PvPers can't kill the AST. AST are not OP

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Apparently you have never chased noct AST in frontlines. They are unkillable. Even with your listed fancy skills. And if your lag is more than 100ms, most of your attacks will miss because the healer in reality a few steps away from you already.

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Clearly you don't play Frontlines enough since you think that AST are unkillable.

All your weapon throw are belong to me.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You realize you are kinda making a case for why they are OP here...?

Gee, if you want to make a defense, you need to claim things like:"The HPS of a healer can't match the DPS anyway", or "Healers are so squishy, they basically die in a single stun to a DPS" or "Healing a person is far more complex than bursting it", or "Healers can be interrupted, they can't heal when under attack", or "Healers run out of resources far before DPS do" or "Healers don't have much impact on the game anyway, so it doesn't matter if they live or die" or other such things. Replace "Healer" with "AST" at leisure - it doesn't matter, I'm only demonstrating a principle here:

On principle, if you want to argue something not being OP, you need to point out how the counterplay is far easier to successfully pull off than the play in question. You're doing the opposite and the point you're trying to make a disservice.

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Proper CC and burst is the bases of PvP, you can't expect to kill any decent healer without both. Stunning someone is easy and all of the melees have two of them in which they can burst someone down to 0% in that timeframe. His point is accurate and that people believe AST to be OP without even executing correctly on their part.

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Originally Posted by Yukumazi

Clearly you don't play Frontlines enough

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http://i.imgur.com/svNPyl8.png?1

Clearly not.

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Originally Posted by Yukumazi

since you think that AST are unkillable.

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Have fun solo chasing nocturnal AST spamming instant Aspected Benefic (275 potency heal + 178 potency shield every GCD) nonstop while sprinting and weaving Essential Dignity which is on rather short cooldown. And with Lightspeed and Celestial Opposition they can spam more potent Benefic I/II for 20 seconds. AST is broken for solo healing.

Ast is not broken.

When you are solo melee dps you can't outdamage their healing output. You can (probably) kill only with 2 potent moves to chip off their HP, stun and immediatelly melee LB, otherwise they'll have time to top themselves again. And it'll not work on a healer with vitality accessories.

That doesn't make them broken, that makes them a Healer.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

When you are solo melee dps you can't outdamage their healing output. You can (probably) kill only with 2 potent moves to chip off their HP, stun and immediatelly melee LB, otherwise they'll have time to top themselves again. And it'll not work on a healer with vitality accessories.

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I stopped reading when I read "solo"

If you have that many matches into frontlines and you still think AST are broken, then it's not a AST problem. Nor is it a lack of melee throw for DPS problem.

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Originally Posted by Yukumazi

The Claims you are making don't really change anything if bad PvPers can't kill the AST. AST are not OP



Clearly you don't play Frontlines enough since you think that AST are unkillable.

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Exactly. All healers are easily killable with the right CC and burst they can even be soloed by just about every DPS class and WAR that know what they're doing. Probably by DRK as well because they've got some pretty good burst; just very little CC to affect healers (DRK likely won't drop a good healer tho) sole survivor + full swing + dark arts + carve and split (450 potency attack) + dark arts + souleater (400 potency attack) - not as easily bursty as war - but doable.

You should try to be with ur team and especially ur own healers at all times in Frontlines AND Feast unless they're making bad plays. If u find killing with ur group too difficult, u need to learn how to secure kills and use the buffs/debuffs ur party provides u to ur advantage. Getting Battle High/Fever early on in a match is important in order to secure more kills later on.

u need to pay attention to a healer's buffs in order to successfully lock down a healer in PvP. Any good healer can outrun a DPS just blowing CDs with no real order. A few seconds of stunning goes an extremely long way, especially if the healer has no CDs. u need to build up to ur hard hitting combo and then weave in all ur killing blows between the 2-4 seconds of stun that each melee has. Even when the stuns wear off, ur hard hitting skills should be enough to interrupt casts at the least. Know when to switch targets.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

http://i.imgur.com/svNPyl8.png?1

Have fun solo chasing nocturnal AST

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Why are you solo chasing a noct AST in the first place? Why aren't you with your team? Better yet, who's healing the AST's team while you're chasing?

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Originally Posted by Llus

All healers are easily killable with the right CC and burst they can even be soloed by just about every DPS class and WAR that know what they're doing as long as the healer themselves does not and/or is bad.

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Fixed that last part for you.

If just about every DPS class can solo you as a healer... LOL. Try to play another role maybe, because healing is clearly not for you.

So if a healer is not supposed to get solo'd by a DPS, why are you claiming AST is broken because you can't solo them as a melee??

Because only AST can spam heals+shields nonstop for a couple of minutes while running. Other healer jobs have limited instant casts so eventually they have to stop for hard cast.

So their ability to kite a mindless melee is what makes them OP? One of the few ups they have other then their rng cards compared to the other healers? Spamming Noct Shield endlessly is going to get your team killed, and eventually yourself against a competent DPS. I advise that you stop doing that, if that is how you assume that's how ASTs win.

You disregard the fact that WHM has a ton of CC, powerful healing cds, and Sacred Prism. SCH can lustrate/adlo spam to outpace damage when they no longer need to kite for no reason. Not to mention they both have a knockback they can use to create enough distance that the melee can't even gap closer back onto them, thus taking 0 damage from said brainless melee. ASTs ability to kite numskulls doesn't make them OP in any regard.

If we are talking about bad dps that can't kill healer, I think the punishment order is sch > ast > whm. If you can't kill an ast 1v1, have fun trying to kill a sch lol. Only reason ast is better in a team setting is because in a team setting sch gets drained of resources faster.

Drg can kill in legsweep + buffed FT + buffed Jump + Spineshatter. Monk has a stun that is basically an eternity. Ninja is basically the bard of melee. Fight real dps. Fetterward + sprint literally has 0 counterplay other than hoping they are garbage.