Elite, Elitism, and Elitist

Please take this discussion seriously and refrain from any trolling (at least not in this thread).

I am curious, and also doing a bit of research, on what these three terms mean. I've went through several other post, on various websites, but I still wanted to make one here and see how people currently feel.

1. How would you define/describe/characterize an elite?

2. Elitism?

3. Elitist?

Elite: Someone who is a good player. Or good at a certain thing. Like a crafting elite!

Elitism: Using your skill to raise yourself above another as a way of talk down a person. Or to make you look better than them.

Elitist: Someone who is displaying elitism.

As relating to FFXIV.

1. Elite - Those who can successfully complete tasks that few other players can through genuine ability.
   
   
2. Elitism - Belief that the thoughts and opinions of players that have completed tasks few other players have successfully done should carry more weight with SE and the community than the thoughts and opinions of players who have not completed those tasks.
   
   
3. Elitist - A player who believes in the inherent superiority of the Elite for successful completion of difficult tasks few other players can complete.

So a elite, elitism and elitist huh. Well this is how I see it

1. Elite - Usually those who play at a higher level than the majority of the players.


2. Elitism - A view that particular players who criticize any players who do a mechanic wrong in content regardless the difficulty and want it done the way " that is correct" or how they want it.


3. Elitist - Those who display the view of elitism

My thoughts

1. Elite- A player who can play at a high level, but what makes them elite is their ability to effectively communicate with teammates.

2. Elitism- The perception that there is a "correct way". For example, certain party compositions or that there is only "one way" to complete a task

3. Elitist- A player who has the view of elitism and believes that they are an elite player.

1. Elite - Someone who strives to be the best they can be.

2. Elitism - (1. Holding not only yourself, but others to a higher standard. (2. A pejorative term used by bad/lazy players to describe those who disagree with and prove ineffective poor/under-performing play styles with facts.

3. Elitist - A pejorative term used by bad/lazy players to describe a singular individual who uses research to disprove/dismantle poor play styles.

Elite: Someone capable of doing the hardest content the game has to offer.
Elitism: The notion that only Elites should participate in any content the game has to offer.
Elitist: One who displays elitism.

That said, a little further clarification on Elitism. I don't think it's elitist to feel players should keep their gear appropriate (within 10 levels pre-50, within 4 levels and a bare minimum of ilvl115 post-50, and within two content patches for 50 or 60 content), or that they should have some basic knowledge of how the class works. What IS elitist is going off on a player for not maintaining a perfect rotation, not slotting materia into leveling gear, or messing up mechanics on a fight they're new to. There's a big difference between expecting people to show some level of competency, and executing everything perfectly in the best gear... especially on content where it really doesn't matter.

Elite: Someone that is in the top percentage of players for the activity in question.
Elitism: A bad attitude displayed by a few elites, but usually by (at best) average players who *think* they're elites. Often focused around bashing players for a percieved lack of skill at an activity.
Elitist: A buzzword usually used by bad and/or lazy players in a vain attempt to justify their lack of willingness to even try and improve, or as a means to try and talk down to players that are more skilled than they are.

Yeah, I think both sides are as bad as each other. You got your wannabe elitists trying to lord it over the masses and being arrogant snots, when usually they're not even that good. Then you got the 'well excuse me for having a life!' types who get bent out of shape over everything. I dislike both camps equally.

Elite: A player who is the best of the best at their content of choice
Elitism: When elite players feel they are the perfect
Elitist: When elite players feel they are perfect and feel the need to berate/insult players who are not on their level

Elite: someone who is very good at a certain skill

Elisitm: the belief that one's own (perceived superior) skill is the standard and everyone who does not measure up is either stupid or lazy

Elitist: a person who believes their (perceived) superior skill gives them the right to talk down to and insult those less skilled

Anyone who uses a damage parser.

Elite - Stemming from eligere (choosing), an elite is a selected circle of individuals. Commonly, the reason for the choice is an extraordinary exhibition of a certain characteristic (Loyalty, Skill, Knowledge, Power etc etc).

Elitism - Consequently, elitism refers to the belief in the superiority of elites and commonly the idea they should be fostered/supported/praised etc (for example, the idea that rich people should not have to pay taxes because they'd know better than the state how to handle money)

Elitist - A person with the previously mentioned belief.

1. How would you define/describe/characterize an elite?
Someone with a clear skill level that goes above and beyond the norm. For example, a Tank that can pull aggro in an entire dungeon and not die regardless of the healer and can carry the whole party. (this is a biased opinion because I love Tanks)

2. Elitism?
Something that people display when they think they're better than someone else, be it because of owning 10 gil more than most players or because they cleared some endgame content.

3. Elitist?
most of the posts on the forum
Similar to elitism, and another form of self indulgence to try and put down others who don't bother or care about what someone else told them was important.

The three words are the same more or less.


1. Elite. Can be perceive as good player who usually beat things easy. But, this is more a subjetive thing. For me, Elite are the same a Elitist. I prefer use "Skilled player" rather than Elite to refer good players.

2. Elitism. Well, a behaviour proper of the elitist players. Usually consist on despise other players skills, kick newies instead of teach them or directly do not let join anything because automatically consider they are bad and they are not allowed to have fun in a game. Also is proper of this behaviour ask for discrimination tools, like do not let newies join or block the access to determinated duties to people cosidered by them as not skilled. They also consider newies cannot get "COil" or "Savage" gear and keep this things onlyfor them, because the others "Are not allowed to enjoy this"

3. Elitist. People who believes they are "Elite", the best players in the game, and don't join/play with others if they do not have their skill level, even if they are no really good player (most elitist are no good players by my experience). Those who cosiderede themselves as elite are usually idiots that thing they never fails and it is always others faults. You can recognize it by the "Fail = Kick" party finder usually (Not all of them are "elitist", but the posibilities are high).

Quote:

---

1. How would you define/describe/characterize an elite?

---

People who are just good at whatever it is they are trying to accomplish.

Quote:

---

2. How would you define/describe/characterize elitism?

---

Elitism is thinking one person is above another in a specific context, in this case games, based on any metric. Most games require, or enforce, some kind of elitism. MMOs have to cater content to players who are genuinely better than other players, and at the same time, compensate for players who couldn't care less about their skill level. The problem mostly arises when players feel that some players who have an "elite status" aren't worthy, or are a hindrance, to the game. This works the opposite way as well, where elite players view bad players as a hindrance on the enjoyment, or progress, of their game. This is a huge factor in competitive games.

Quote:

---

3. How would you define/describe/characterize an elitist?

---

People who enforce elitism passively because they think they are better, or are better, than other players.

Actually according to the sensitive Playerbase

1. Elite-Anyone who clears content and offers advice.
2. Elitist-Anyone who clears content and offers advice.
3. Elitism-The act of offering advice due to experience or knowledge.

Basically, if you don't pay their sub and you open your mouth you're an elitist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Elite: someone who is very good at a certain skill

Elisitm: the belief that one's own (perceived superior) skill is the standard and everyone who does not measure up is either stupid or lazy

Elitist: a person who believes their (perceived) superior skill gives them the right to talk down to and insult those less skilled

---

This is pretty much what I would have written, so I'll just quote it and agree.

I would also add, however, that I think the term "elitist" is overused and thrown at other players far too easily. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to counsel another player or offer constructive criticism if the way they are playing negatively affects the gameplay experience of those around them. Not everyone that disagrees with another person's playstyle is an elitist. Sometimes people already are just bad or lazy and will continue to do so unless it is brought to their attention in an appropriate manner.

Some people play victim far too frequently and just call anyone who disagrees with them an elitist..

I'm enjoying these replies so far. Please don't be afraid to share your thoughts as well! I would appreciate it a bunch.

Elite - Any player that by combination of skill and social circles, ends up in a level of their own (shared only with other "elite" players) for a sizable portion of serious play. If skill, responsibility, coordination, or any other traits that may be separately referred to positively, are not what sets that social circle apart, it is merely a clique, rather than a circle of "elite" players. Elites, while possibly distancing as a term for an 'other' community, always defines a sum, however haphazard, of positively-definable parts, with successes to match.

Alternatively, anyone who regularly plays to the best of their abilities (whether or not that be while still having fun) and expects nearly the same of others.

Elitist - Though I don't think it should be technically defined as such, I personally use the term to refer to anyone with a low tolerance for training others in any skills, techniques, or mindsets that would have been necessarily to reliably reach the content they're now attempting without special assistance from others. Where others might consider community intervention (in this case, any interaction meant to bring a player up to their expected pace, or to diminish habits that normal gameplay would reasonably discourage) a part of the game or part of the charm of an MMO, they consider a player's need for outside help a failure to correctly play the game, or due to something lacking in that player's mindset in approaching a game centered on team effort.

Separately, this might instead refer to those who are unwilling to use any method not as theoretically and provenly sound as the "conventional" method, even if still likely viable. When push comes to shove, their instinct is to change tactics, configuration, etc. rather than favoring practice and looser adaptation. They take a more decisive and invasive approach to reaching their clear. At an extreme, this may seem narrow-minded, mechanistic, or even to take the fun out of the game, but it will of course appeal to some. "Elitist" play is still a range in a spectrum, which is either in your strike-zone, or not.

Elitism - The belief that one should play near to the best of one's abilities, and that nothing is owed to those who do not.

Or, separately, that belief that progress should take precedence over preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

Anyone who uses a damage parser.

---

Yes, because wanting to self-improve without hindering the fun of anyone around you is elitism.

I usually see the words as an attack on making an effort and merit in general.
Some people won't have the humility to reflect on themselves and ask how they're not clearing content and would just blame the elitists keeping them down.
There's plenty of jerks in game but there's no correlation between skill and common decency. I see alot of people who are behind in content when they're also badmouthing other players with nothing constructive to say, and will keep themselves down as they consider themselves above making mistakes.

Elite: A jerk. Eltism: a jerk. Elitist: a jerk

There is no such thing, dont even try to categorise things!
I believe we are all PLAYERS who like to have fun ...
But to answer your question: Everyone have his own goals and other ways to get fun, to draw a line i would say it becomes an issue if you will destroy the dream, hope or future from others!

Elite : Player searching to improve their skills, to be the best, to play at a high level skills

Elitism : advocate the elite way of play

Elitist : Player who practice elitism

Imma do mine based off MMO genre and what i seen it become.

elite: imo this one has more or less retained its actual meaning. To me an elite is a skilled player that also happens to be clearing current content in timely fashions.(before gear power creeps etc over periods of a contents life.) This type of player also happens to have a low attempts vs clear speed and can adapt to changes within a groups performance on the fly. There are more factors, but my main point is even within MMO communities I think "Elite" means just that.

elitism: This one is a bit more iffy and i think there are two types of it within MMOs. The first and the one an "elite" might actually partake of is positive elitism. This is the guy that is more than willing to help others out that haven't cleared content he has, with reward being nothing more than "unwanted" praise. A good example of this kind is what was common in FF 11 in its hay day. Such as higher lvls carrying you through job quests etc. I tended to think of it as the "senpai" elitism :P
We have the negative elitism, this are the people that tend to berate/talk down those with a higher learning curve/new players/etc. This is the kinda player that magically happens to forget that it took em 100+ tries to clear current content and forgive no manor of mistake from someone attempting said content recently. Within the negative camp you also have the armchair developer types too, this is the person that is going to explain to you how everything is easy and you are bad for not being able to do it, even though they themselves have prolly not beaten it or attempted it. (why would they its clearly too easy and beneath them) There are alot of types of this in the MMO sense of the word and some games even have their own brands of it.

elitist: In the MMO sense this term has pretty much just fallen to describe the persons in the negative elitism camp. As such it has turned into a derogatory term. Not much more to add on this one on a MMO standpoint imo.

Hope this helps and if it doesn't.....git gud scrub! :P

Elite: Someone among a small percentile of players possessing exceptional skill in their chosen role and content. They are humble, and use their skill level and high success rates to help others. Despite their high skill level, they never call themselves "elite".

Elitism: A practice of beliefs that grants entitlement to players of high skill level and accomplishments. This entitlement entails high-fives to the self, belittling players of lower skill calling them "bad" or "inferior", and using max gear stats and raid clears to ascend to the status of God.

Elitist: One who practices 'elitism'.

Elite:

Someone at the bleeding edge of content, setting trends and part of the world first race.

Elitism:

a) Condescension towards other players for not performing to a set standard of play. This standard of play is entirely subjective and can range from "why the hell aren't you pulling 2.5k DPS in an Expert?" to "seriously, how do you not know what Heavy Thrust is at level 60?"
b) A term far too overused by people on the lower end of the skill spectrum as an excuse to shut out often constructive criticism, especially for the latter example above.

Elitist:

A person that displays the behaviour above, or a player that thinks extremely highly of themselves for achievements that are average in comparison to elite players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AkashiXI

Yes, because wanting to self-improve without hindering the fun of anyone around you is elitism.

---

Yes .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hinatea

Please take this discussion seriously and refrain from any trolling (at least not in this thread).

---

Thank you.

Elite: A person who has rightfully earn their status as "holy god, how'd you do that".

Elitist: Someone who uses their status for ill and instead of helping, talk down. There is a possible positive connotation, but the term "elitist" is typically used in a negative manner.

Elitism: Typically, a bad player thinking they're God's gift to FF14 and likely has been carried so bad their team has back problems. My own experience, I saw this when a supposed "raider" BLM taught my FC's babby BLM the completely wrong rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Elite: A person who has rightfully earn their status as "holy god, how'd you do that".

Elitist: Someone who uses their status for ill and instead of helping, talk down. There is a possible positive connotation, but the term "elitist" is typically used in a negative manner.

Elitism: Typically, a bad player thinking they're God's gift to FF14 and likely has been carried so bad their team has back problems. My own experience, I saw this when a supposed "raider" BLM taught my FC's babby BLM the completely wrong rotation.

---

I'm still a n00b in FFXIV, but Frowny's definitions definitely align with my experiences in other games (EverQuest and WoW, if it matters).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hinatea

Thank you.

---

I'm being serious.

Damage Parser = Elitism

That's why is against ToS :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

I'm being serious.

Damage Parser = Elitism

That's why is against ToS :)

---

Parsers can actually be a positive thing when used properly for self-awareness, character development and even constructive criticism.

People with nasty attitudes will have them with or without a parser. It's just a tool that gives them numbers to back up their argument. And they aren't always wrong....some people do severely underperform whether they know it or not. An equally bad problem is that underperformers don't want to know (or others to know) that they may be the weak link in an otherwise good group. It all depends on context. Its simply not true that "Parsers are bad" or "Parsers make people elitists". The problem with a negative elitist is the unecessary rudeness and general superiority complex, not their ability to gauge another person's performance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkstride

Parsers can actually be a positive thing when used properly for self-awareness, character development and even constructive criticism.

People with nasty attitudes will have them with or without a parser. It's just a tool that gives them numbers to back up their argument. And they aren't always wrong....some people do severely underperform whether they know it or not. An equally bad problem is that underperformers don't want to know (or others to know) that they may be the weak link in an otherwise good group. It all depends on context. Its simply not true that "Parsers are bad" or "Parsers make people elitists". The problem with a negative elitist is the unecessary rudeness and general superiority complex, not their ability to gauge another person's performance.

---

I agree. I would like for the thread to stay on topic, but it really is the same as saying guns don't kill people, but the person using the gun kills people.

Unpopular Opinion incoming!

Elite: Someone who is good at their job and takes things seriously

Elitism: Believing that your style of play is the only style and others should simply fall in line. This includes not only those who excel at their jobs and only want to play with others who do as well and are snide to those who are new or trying as seems to be the common theme for those who have answered so far, but also those who have the attitude of "I pay my sub I play how I want", refuse to try and/or learn and generally think that everyone should bow down before them because they are new, indifferent or inexperienced. Also those who feel the game, the devs and all those within it as a whole should cater to their one and only play style, schedule or lack there of and feeling incredibly slighted if they are removed from any form of content for not participating or making an effort.

Elitist: QQ or /rage for not adhering to the above or general snidiness.

Elite: someone who plays the game to high standard, puts out impressive numbers, has cleared most/all available content due to their own capability

Elitist: Someone who expects everyone (incl. themselves) to play to the best of their ability, to have appropriate gear, perform their rotation correctly, use all of their toolkit, and to give their all.

Elitism: act of being an elitist.

Filthy Elitist: a term used to describe anyone who does anything, or speaks, by someone with self-esteem issues who just wants to do whatever they want without question. See also "You don't pay my sub" and "Ice Mage"

1. How would you define/describe/characterize an elite?

An Elite would be someone who is knowledgeable about the game, succeeds in overcoming challenges and shares his information with the community in a positive, and constructive manner.
He's someone who aims at helping others improve by leading by example.
He's someone who also understands the shortcomings of people and tries to work around it.

2. Elitism?

The negative behaviour around people that look down on others because they succeeded in something or obtained something the others still have to achieve.
Classical situations are :

- Looking down for not pulling same numbers
- Kicking people from groups for different approaches/oppinions/playstyles
- Pointing out errors people make in a negative way

3. Elitist?

The people promoting, exhibiting or enforcing step 2

So I've seen a lot of definitions on here, most of which cover the ones I would give. So, rather than add to that pile, how about we see what the actual definitions are? (From Random House's Dictionary.com)

Elite: the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

Elitism:
1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite.
2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.

Elitist (noun):
3. a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society.
4. a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.

Honestly, I think looking at the posts and the definitions what you can take out of this is... No one cares if you're the best at something, but no one wants you to shove that in their face and tell them they're no good just because they're not you.

A player who's skills are obviously superior to other players, then proceeds to talk down to anyone who's either still learning, or hasn't had the opportunity to dedicate the same amount of time that that players has to reach their skill level. They are generally impatient, always in a rush, and are first to run around flashing their new superior rare toys for the world to see for attention. You can be Elite without being an Elitist. A lot of it has to do with personality. For example I think many of the players in my FC are Elite. They are exceptionally skilled, and know how things work. Yet they are always quick to help, and spend the time needed to teach someone who's new to something so that they can also get better at it. I respect the Elite player where I have no respect for an Elitist who never has time to help, is quick to point out your flaws, and place blame. Thankfully I have not had to deal with to many Elitist players.

Elite: Superior, top 1%, best in slot, experienced, knows their roles and how it fits with others, the mechanics of the fights and is the hero that turns loss to victory.

Elitism: Belief that there is only one way and one path. Typically decently geared player with weak minds, that take a minor truth/opinion and hold onto it because rarely can they see the bigger picture or try different paths until they are forced on them or believed by the community as a whole.

Elitist: Belief that better players should only access certain areas. Only they/or the elite 1% should do something. Make it harder so less people can do it. Typically blames peopl e to draw from their own mistakes.