PoTd Fixed party suggestion : FL101 Check point

So yesterday I went into POTD from 51 - 200 with a couple of friends. It took us around 14 hours in one go (with lunch break dinner break bio break wife aggro) sadly we only managed to reach floor 180. we wiped at %1 on behemoth. The boss fights are fun but what I think is a bit of a nightmare is to re start from all the way down to 51 rather than 101.

I personally think it would be a good idea to have a check point once u reach 101. So even if we die we can re take the challenge. I don't think the problem here is not the difficulty but the amount of time people got to run this everytime you die. Of course we could run 2 floors a day or one even but once u wipe you have to start the whole thing all over again.

Just a suggestion.

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

One of the things which makes this content challenging is the fact that if you do die, you need to start from at least floor 51 again.

Without that fear of death and starting over from 51, people will be less careful and the thrill / adrenaline rush will disappear.
The rewards for getting past 150, and to 200, are supposed to be challenging to get.

I believe it is fine the way it is for this reason. I sincerely hope they do not nerf content which was just recently released.

Wouldn't mind it. 51-100 is a snoozefest for duo+ anyways. It's almost like if you had to kill trash every time you wipe to a savage boss. Mostly a waste of time.

If you wipe and use the same file to start from 101 it should void your score though.

Regarding rewards from 150-200 we all got dyes primal weps HQ and Materia V (earth water mind) that's all I got. I think the rewards are a bit underwhelming for such a long run. The only one rewards that are worth getting are Night Pegasus Abigail's thingy and Edda's minion... If we can call it "worth of getting" .

If the Kinna Wep was the final reward for clearing the 51-200 I will fully understand and this thread would of not even been made. But you can get Kinna we just running 51-100....

51-100 is just artificial fluff to serve as a time gate anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mature

Regarding rewards from 150-200 we all got dyes primal weps HQ and Materia V (earth water mind) that's all I got. I think the rewards are a bit underwhelming for such a long run. The only one rewards that are worth getting are Night Pegasus Abigail's thingy and Edda's minion... If we can call it "worth of getting" .

If the Kinna Wep was the final reward for clearing the 51-200 I will fully understand and this thread would of not even been made. But you can get Kinna we just running 51-100....

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Underwhelming? Keep in mind that these weapons are worth up to 2 mio gil (depending on the server) and everyone who's level 17 can enter PotD.
The reward you get for beating floor 200 is shit tho. (I just finished floor 200)

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Originally Posted by oLLiCS

The reward you get for beating floor 200 is shit tho. (I just finished floor 200)

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I hope Deneb cast a hex on you.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

One of the things which makes this content challenging is the fact that if you do die, you need to start from at least floor 51 again.

Without that fear of death and starting over from 51, people will be less careful and the thrill / adrenaline rush will disappear.
The rewards for getting past 150, and to 200, are supposed to be challenging to get.

I believe it is fine the way it is for this reason. I sincerely hope they do not nerf content which was just recently released.

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That's not really a challenge though, put that rule from PotD into other content, for instance say you wiped on A12s, now you have to rerun A1s-A11s. Wiping in WC, go back to VA. They can keep the 1 death and you're out rule that's a good idea, but put it back to 101. After all, you earned your way into 101, why go back to 51 where you have a immense gear advantage and faceroll everything?

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

That's not really a challenge though, put that rule from PotD into other content, for instance say you wiped on A12s, now you have to rerun A1s-A11s. Wiping in WC, go back to VA. They can keep the 1 death and you're out rule that's a good idea, but put it back to 101. After all, you earned your way into 101, why go back to 51 where you have a immense gear advantage and faceroll everything?

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I'd be OK with having to do A1-A12 and then A1s-A12s again. Oh, and force it to be minimum ilvl, and buff enemy damage by ten billion per cent. Yes, I'm being serious.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

That's not really a challenge though, put that rule from PotD into other content, for instance say you wiped on A12s, now you have to rerun A1s-A11s. Wiping in WC, go back to VA. They can keep the 1 death and you're out rule that's a good idea, but put it back to 101. After all, you earned your way into 101, why go back to 51 where you have a immense gear advantage and faceroll everything?

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Apples to oranges, it's like asking why are 4-man dungeons easy and 8-man savage so hard. It's because the content was designed with this in mind, to be this punishing for failure and to have to work up towards that goal again if you ended up losing. Savage content is designed to just be challenging boss encounter to overcome, POTD is a 4-man challenging content that is designed to be punishing in that one slip-up or chain of events and you could lose everything.

Asking to tone it down would pretty much be admitting to Yoshi that the players don't know what they want, because they keep asking for something challenging but not "challenging", they actually want "Challenging that they can beat" but then when they beat that challenge they go back and complain how it's to easy now. It's quite the cycle, there is no need to reduce the punishing factor of POTD because each run is a learning experience, as you do better you realize the ticks behind each mob and better means of overcoming the bosses. You end up with more items on hand to use in difficult moments and understand how you can manipulate rage, lust, witch, resolution in ways to reduce the amount of mobs you have to kill per floor. You learn how to manipulate the sight/safety in such a way that if you play it right on the last set of 10 floors you would only need to worry about 3 floors with traps.

You learn if someone steps on a trap that it only aggros them, if you don't panic and move back you can eliminate the risk of wiping when you are low on items and raise them and then take them out one by one.

POTD should not be looked at something where you see the punishing factor and beg for it to be "easier to handle" it shoudl be seen as self-reflection with each failure you learn something new and with your 99/99 gear things become easier.

At 99/99 even just 1 person with 3 others, POTD 51-100 can be cleared in about 2hrs. From 101-151 you could possibly clear them out on an average 35-40 mins for about 3hrs. And from the last 10, yea it could take the whole hr or 50 mins for a total of about 4hrs leaving you with 9hrs to progress from 51-200. So while yes it took you 14hrs to progress that far, it only took that long because you aren't use to those floors yet.

As you master POTD and understand how to use the items in a micro-managing way and you don't hesitate to use safety/sight as needed to speed up the floors along with witch to kill treasure rooms, combo with fortune to increase loot chances and affluence(treasure on next floor) item strategically, you can hit lucky chains in which you have more Rages than you know what to do with and can just run through floors because you are more familiar with the content and have learned how to manipulate the items to speed up the dungeon crawling.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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I'm well aware on how PotD was built and what it was intended for, however a challenge is not repeating something you know you have mastery of, going back to floor 51 is just an attempt on SE to ensure players have a decent pool of players to be matched with in order to progress. You're not growing in skill for going back to floor 51 with 99/99, running through bosses that are FATE level of difficulty, if you wiped on floor 170 from the boss because of it's mechanics redoing story based levels isn't helping you understand a boss fight on a set of optional floors. A player that has access to 101 would already know how items and traps work as they have seen it previously for 100 floors, so you're not learning here on how to manage items or traps, it's a development choice that honestly has no real benefit to redoing once one has proven capable of handling.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

it's a development choice that honestly has no real benefit to redoing once one has proven capable of handling.

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It does have benefit, you just don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

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Actually all the bosses in 110 through 190 save for 150 boss are all buffed versions of the floor-100 bosses and maintain all their major mechanics. If you are wiping on any of them due to mechanics rather than a dps check practicing on the weaker version would be a great way to improve.

Floors 101+ are also tuned with the expectation that a group starting them already has a fair number of pomanders stored up.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Actually all the bosses in 110 through 190 save for 150 boss are all buffed versions of the floor-100 bosses and maintain all their major mechanics. If you are wiping on any of them due to mechanics rather than a dps check practicing on the weaker version would be a great way to improve.

Floors 101+ are also tuned with the expectation that a group starting them already has a fair number of pomanders stored up.

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I'm aware that they're the same, I was stating that if you encountered any mechanic within 101 that you didn't already deal with in 1-100 it doesn't make sense to practice the things you already know how to handle. It's better to practice what you don't know that way in the event you have to deal with them you can accordingly. For instance if you play a fighter practicing against a zone heavy character wouldn't help you prepare for a rush down character. Alternatively playing on hard doesn't prepare you for extreme, as things might react to situations differently within the new difficulty bracket.

I'd be cool with a checkpoint at 101. It's hard to remain motivated knowing you have to trudge through 51-100 all over again.

Dont get me wrong I'm not asking to start from scratch from 101 what I'm suggesting is you HAVE to start from 51 and make your way up to 200 but if u reach 101 a check point should happen until you clear the floor 200 with you fixed party.

And again once you hit 99/99 blue chests become useless so the only thing left to do is to just run and get onto the cairn and move to the next floor. Floor 160+ take a bit of time to complete if u want the hoards specially reaching the zoo that is 170....

A floor 101 check point would be ideal.

At first, I was all for the reset or checkpoint to floor 101 as well. But then I felt like it would become a complete farm run that would actually make the rewards commonplace. There is no "weekly lockout" or anything compared to raids. So, in theory, you would end up running 100-200 over and over again thus lowering the value of the rewards. I get it, it does suck having to redo the 50-100 floors over just to get to the "good stuff". However, without that in place, everyone would have the mount and minion. I do feel for people that wipe at floor 109 or something and have to go back to 51, but a lot of people wanted "tough 4 man" content that was similar to raids. So here is content that 4 people can run over and over with a challenege.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I'm well aware on how PotD was built and what it was intended for, however a challenge is not repeating something you know you have mastery of, going back to floor 51 is just an attempt on SE to ensure players have a decent pool of players to be matched with in order to progress.

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You can't do 101+ in a matched party so this is not true.

I have yet to play 101+ even though i want to, due to the Fixed party rule.
So really, my only hope of playing this content is to Solo it.

I finally cleared 100 yesterday with my +99/99 WHM, but i did wipe on my first attempt at the boss and so could not continue to 101.
I typically cleared each set with about 10 minutes left on the timer.

SO this brings three thoughts to mind:

#1 - How about being able to retry the current 10 floor set until you clear, no matter the KO count, but just not be able to continue?
Perhaps this is already the case but i don't know because i have yet to reach 101. But basically, everything takes practice. Especially solo. Once we learn how fights work, in actual practice, not just watching a youtube, it gets easier for sure. I'd like to be able to practice and learn a certain boss 5 times if that's what is necessary to learn it, without having to trudge through 5-10 hours of grid just to attempt it again. Hey, if i die any number of times before i beat the boss, sure, don't let me proceed to the next set. But let me try it for practice now that i'm there until i'm satisfied before i restart the whole dungeon.

#2 - Is the 60 minute timer really necessary for challenge or does it just get in the way?
I'm a bit conflicted about this, because i understand how the need to manage ones progress against the clock is a part of the challenge, but is it really necessary? Can it be set to 90 minutes?

#3 - I agree with OP.
51-100 i've done countless times with party and will do so again. Because it's in a different category than 101+, it just ends up feeling like an oh, gotta spend a few hours on these floors before i get to the real thing again kind of thing.

Did u guys realize 101-150 bronze chest drop more Gelmorran Potsherd? .

If the checkpoint on 101 , I really don't know what's going to happen with Materia V price on markets... @__@

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

Did u guys realize 101-150 bronze chest drop more Gelmorran Potsherd? .

If the checkpoint on 101 , I really don't know what's going to happen with Materia V price on markets... @__@

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Yes, this.

When I soloed to floor 130, I got 15 potsherds in just 1 run.

I'm not for or against it, but I wouldn't mind. PotD's main difficulty is just stat fluff enemies, which I don't really consider worthwhile difficulty.

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

I'd be cool with a checkpoint at 101. It's hard to remain motivated knowing you have to trudge through 51-100 all over again.

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My point exactly. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Mature

My point exactly. Thanks

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Actually the reason he gave is exactly why SE designed it the way they did. The difficulty comes from the psychology of the idea that if you screw up, you have to trawl through all that again. It instills fear of dying, and despair if you do die. That is by design so I don't see SE changing it anytime soon. As for Alexander Savage, while I advocate for throwing you back to A1N if you die at A12S if it means you guys will stop with these checkpoint threads, it is designed differently in that the difficulty comes from the amount of stuff flying around, the content is much more difficult and that is what creates the fear of dying.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

One of the things which makes this content challenging is the fact that if you do die, you need to start from at least floor 51 again.

Without that fear of death and starting over from 51, people will be less careful and the thrill / adrenaline rush will disappear.
The rewards for getting past 150, and to 200, are supposed to be challenging to get.

I believe it is fine the way it is for this reason. I sincerely hope they do not nerf content which was just recently released.

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I disagree. Floors 51-100 are a complete cakewalk once you have enough Aetherpool points, making it more of a chore than instilling any sense of fear. Getting to floor 170 only to be dropped back to 101 still retains the challenging aspect, but removes the boring grind back to floor 101 from 51. Granted, I suspect the actually reason they require it is to keep people queuing.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Actually the reason he gave is exactly why SE designed it the way they did. The difficulty comes from the psychology of the idea that if you screw up, you have to trawl through all that again. It instills fear of dying, and despair if you do die. That is by design so I don't see SE changing it anytime soon. As for Alexander Savage, while I advocate for throwing you back to A1N if you die at A12S if it means you guys will stop with these checkpoint threads, it is designed differently in that the difficulty comes from the amount of stuff flying around, the content is much more difficult and that is what creates the fear of dying.

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Except, it does't. At least not for me. There is no challenge throughout 51-100, so my dying on say, floor 140 just makes me groan because now I have to slug through fifty floors before I can actually reach the challenging portion again. It's the equivalent of calling the Umbrite step challenging because you have to spam ARF for optimal lore farming. No matter what they do, you're still spamming ARF a hundred times, which is boring.

The penalty of going back to 51 is intended to make dying / wiping a seriously undesirable thing, sorta like a lesser version of Sword Art Online. It makes groups fight harder and work harder to get to the top, its intended to be the "savage" mode of the Deep Dungeon system.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

the content is much more difficult and that is what creates the fear of dying.

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I wouldn't say the content is more difficult at all. The problem comes when you reach higher floors and adds got more HP and there's more of them to kill at the same time. It can become boring hitiing a few adds in one floor for over 15 minutes. And then just to die cause of a trap then to re start from scratch. It can become tiring and dull. Plus the reward on floor 200 , as it has been mentioned before, it's mediocre.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I wouldn't say the content is more difficult at all. The problem comes when you reach higher floors and adds got more HP and there's more of them to kill at the same time. It can become boring hitiing a few adds in one floor for over 15 minutes. And then just to die cause of a trap then to re start from scratch. It can become tiring and dull. Plus the reward on floor 200 , as it has been mentioned before, it's mediocre.

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With regards to the part you quoted, I was referring to how Alexander Savage operates and why it is different to POTD. I can understand something may have got lost in translation which is why I am clarifying here.

Making 51-100 mandatory is helpful in stocking up poms for the actual fight from 101-200. But even with that said, it is possible to raise the check point to 101, increase spawn rate of silver chest and reduce the drop rate of potsheds from 101-150. At the end of the day, I still think 51-100 is just fluff content to serve as a time gate so people doesn't burn the content as fast as they would otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

Did u guys realize 101-150 bronze chest drop more Gelmorran Potsherd? .

If the checkpoint on 101 , I really don't know what's going to happen with Materia V price on markets... @__@

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ya, phoenix downs are replaced with potsherds, they have about 30-40% droprate per bronze chest