[1206] Water spells

What happened to the element of Water? I was checking the lists, and there was nothing about water. CON had Wind and Earth attributed to it, while THM had Ice, Fire, and Lightning. But no one had Water? Was it just left off the list, or what's the deal?

One of my favorite elements, that's all I casted on CNJ D:

I won't lie, I am only upset about water not being in the list

Possible given to the other Mage job that's been hinting about.

Personally I just think it was a mistake. It's not something they're readily going to drop.

Maybe Cure - IS - considered the Water elemental spell. Just because it isn't offensive doesn't mean it can't have an element.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Personally I just think it was a mistake. It's not something they're readily going to drop.

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I agree, according to the current elemental wheel, Earth now has an advantage because it is weak to a spell that neither THM nor CNJ have access to.

Yea and what about those Water wands, and water attack magic potency materia etc etc.

I just posted this on another topic but basically maybe the explanations are just trolling us to the real concept behind the Con/Thm line.

If you take a look at the THM ice spells, only THM can use them. What spell did BLM have that only BLM could use(excluding elementals spirits), Freeze. If you take that into consideration it's quite possible that these 5 spells types are just effects based on the arm you are using

So with Conjurer we have
-DoT, AOE dispel
-x element eva down, aga with chance at enfeeble
With THM we appear to have
-Ancient Magic, Freeze
-aga magic Firaga I-III
-single target Thunder I-IV
Then for BLM we appear to have
-Freeze 2

Overall til more data is seen there's no telling if they have actually eliminated water or not, they could actually surprise us and have the element be based on the trait you have equipped. So CON could have the traits of Water/Wind/Earth element and THM could have Ice/Fre/Thunder and when you have said trait active your spells will follow those line of elemental potency. With 12 possible traits for each job it could be possible though I already know that the main problem that could debunk that concept is the fact that you can't use traits on other classes which would kill the BLM ability to use those 3 elements. Though they already can't use 1/3 of those elements as far as we know.

Would be nice if there was less speculiation over this though I am curious to see if they actually comment on the lack of Water magic. It'll definitely be interesting to see how next week progresses if they decide to release an updated ability list or even explain why they made the choices they made lol.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Maybe Cure - IS - considered the Water elemental spell. Just because it isn't offensive doesn't mean it can't have an element.

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this is what i think with thm having 3 elements and con only having 2, if cure is water that would give con its third element

which could also mean increasing Water Element increases Healing.

I'm in agreement with "Another DoM is going to obtain Water".
With BRD being DoW, and BST/SMN being the only announced DoM, I can very well see Water being reserved for another DoM class/job.

On a side note, I'm surprised they didn't give "Light" comboed elements to CNJ,. and "Dark" comboed elements to THM.
(For those that don't know, Dark and Light SCs in XI had 3 elements tied to them, and this carried over to THMs dark/light damage.)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I'm in agreement with "Another DoM is going to obtain Water".
With BRD being DoW, and BST/SMN being the only announced DoM, I can very well see Water being reserved for another DoM class/job.

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Not to mention, without Water the Elemental Wheel becomes unhinged.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I'm in agreement with "Another DoM is going to obtain Water".
With BRD being DoW, and BST/SMN being the only announced DoM, I can very well see Water being reserved for another DoM class/job.

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using logic and math i disagree
6 elements divided by 2, is 3 each cure is water
6 elements divided by 3, is 2 each the new DoM would be missing a element if they only had water

of course i could be completely wrong, so although i disagree, that don't mean i can't see you being right

fat lalafels took all the water.

I really hope it was just accidentally left off.

What would we cast against mobs weak to water that arent undead :O

Well the description of THM says they control 6 elements. Might just come later!

A whole thread on this?

What about:
Umbral?
Astral?
Paralyze/Paralyna?
Slow?
Poison/Poisona?
Silena?
Guildskills?
Shockspikes?
Ancient Magic?
Dedicated Bind spell?
Spiritsong?
Raise/Resurrect? (current one says "may trigger prevention of Weakness and Brink of Death effects.")
Purge?
Shell?
Roaming Soul?

So many good spells just gone.


Also wtf is "Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP." lol its no soughspeak! but i do like.

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Originally Posted by viion

A whole thread on this?

What about:
Umbral?
Astral?
Paralyze/Paralyna?
Slow?
Poison/Poisona?
Silena?
Guildskills?
Shockspikes?
Ancient Magic?
Dedicated Bind spell?
Spiritsong?
Raise/Resurrect? (current one says "may trigger prevention of Weakness and Brink of Death effects.")
Purge?
Shell?
Roaming Soul?

So many good spells just gone.


Also wtf is "Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP." lol its no soughspeak! but i do like.

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Some of these effects were moved into nukes and weapon skills. Some of these debuffs are only available through combos, further relying on teamwork and not zerging. I think it's a good think they got rid of so many of the spells we had, we just had WAY too many.

I said so in another thread, but I'm thinking water nukes will probably come later. For THM if you think about it, if they're going the more traditional route with these jobs and classes, BLMs usually only got Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard. And sometimes they got Quake later. So they're on track with that. I feel like Conjurer is going to get a water based nuke later on since the elements they have seem like they are more on the nature-y side. I also feel like THM/BLMis going to obtain the other elements in some way shape or form. Since supposedly their destructive powers cover all six elements. It's just that these things are going to happen later rather than sooner. Which I don't see as a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by viion

So many good spells just gone.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Some of these effects were moved into nukes and weapon skills. Some of these debuffs are only available through combos, further relying on teamwork and not zerging. I think it's a good think they got rid of so many of the spells we had, we just had WAY too many.

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Also, getting all of these spells before level 50 makes it hard for progression later on. You'll get your AM. It'll just be after level 50. More than likely another magic class will have enfeebles too. Because bunching every single spell that exists under 2 classes is pretty a crappy thing to do if you plan on having more than 2 magic classes.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Well the description of THM says they control 6 elements. Might just come later!

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It only say that in English, not in French/German/Japanese. So nope.

FR/DE/JP just use "multiple elements" instead of saying "six".

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Some of these effects were moved into nukes and weapon skills. Some of these debuffs are only available through combos, further relying on teamwork and not zerging. I think it's a good think they got rid of so many of the spells we had, we just had WAY too many.

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No mention of dark/umbral/astral/light
No mention of Paralyze
No mention of Poison
All BINDs are Exclusive
The only 1 slow is Exclusive
Theres no mention of Ancient Magic
Theres no mention of Guildskills

Theres no "Reduce mp cost by half", but there is "Reduces MP cost of next attack magic spell by half, and restores MP when cast is complete." which is a good trade off.

No mention of anything that does same thing Purge did
No mention of anything that increases duration of effect
No mention of anything that increases magic defense (unless defense is being used for both physical and magical)

Do not assume they just being spread out, actually read it.

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Originally Posted by Orophen

Also, getting all of these spells before level 50 makes it hard for progression later on. You'll get your AM. It'll just be after level 50. More than likely another magic class will have enfeebles too. Because bunching every single spell that exists under 2 classes is pretty a crappy thing to do if you plan on having more than 2 magic classes.

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As far as I'm aware there is no proof that we will get AM later, also we are not getting level cap increase at least until after 1.21 so that's way into next year.

Also You dont know when you get these skills, some of them could be level 50, you dont know.

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Originally Posted by viion

No mention of dark/umbral/astral/light
No mention of Paralyze
No mention of Poison
All BINDs are Exclusive
The only 1 slow is Exclusive
Theres no mention of Ancient Magic
Theres no mention of Guildskills

Theres no "Reduce mp cost by half", but there is "Reduces MP cost of next attack magic spell by half, and restores MP when cast is complete." which is a good trade off.

No mention of anything that does same thing Purge did
No mention of anything that increases duration
No mention of anything that increases magic defense (unless defense is being used for both physical and magical)

Do not assume they just being spread out, actually read it.

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I did read it, because I said some. Why are you so butthurt? You know they had too many spells in this game to begin with. Half of the debuffs were worthless because battle doesn't work long enough and some don't even work on bosses.

The point of these exclusive abilities is so that we don't have -insert class here- exclusive parties. They want parties to need more than just 3 types of classes. And it seems like combat will be a lot harder. And just wait it out, they might add a couple more skills later. You don't know and neither do I. Quit being an ass because I made a simple observation.

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using logic and math i disagree
6 elements divided by 2, is 3 each cure is water
6 elements divided by 3, is 2 each the new DoM would be missing a element if they only had water

of course i could be completely wrong, so although i disagree, that don't mean i can't see you being right

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Using real life logic and math, why do the spells have to be distributed evenly? Because logic says so?

No mention of Silence as well, this is what worries me most for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

No mention of Silence as well, this is what worries me most for whatever reason.

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And silence was SOOO useful for those pesky hippocerfs. Grrr lol

Combos are solo. You don't need a party to combo.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I did read it, because I said some. Why are you so butthurt? You know they had too many spells in this game to begin with. Half of the debuffs were worthless because battle doesn't work long enough and some don't even work on bosses.

The point of these exclusive abilities is so that we don't have -insert class here- exclusive parties. They want parties to need more than just 3 types of classes. And it seems like combat will be a lot harder. And just wait it out, they might add a couple more skills later. You don't know and neither do I. Quit being an ass because I made a simple observation.

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I'm sorry but Slow + Paralyze were god sends, Purge was insanely useful for nuke PT's. Poison was nice way for range pull and good DOT. Shockspikes was wonderful for the stun effect, Spirit Song was insanely good for just about every encounter where you dont need to move (All nms outside of dungeons).

Dedicated raise spells were good to raise from the brink of a whipe, especially having control over your 30 minute resurrect which you can manage on chainspell.

Umbral/Astral is pretty much the only spell THM has atm and it far beats elementals on a lot of things, it is also highly unlikely to be resisted due to its unique nature but they now get stuck with 2 basic elementals.

And Shell, well that speaks for itself.

I guess you just really dont like to play your class very well, hell I'm a PLer and I take my class serious and play it to the fullest.

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Originally Posted by OriginalHungerforce

Using real life logic and math, why do the spells have to be distributed evenly? Because logic says so?

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why not? seems like balance to me that way :P. but your right it doesn't have to be that way. but its as good a argument for the reason why thing are the way they are as any.

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Originally Posted by viion

I'm sorry but Slow + Paralyze were god sends, Purge was insanely useful for nuke PT's. Poison was nice way for range pull and good DOT. Shockspikes was wonderful for the stun effect, Spirit Song was insanely good for just about every encounter where you dont need to move (All nms outside of dungeons).

Dedicated raise spells were good to raise from the brink of a whipe, especially having control over your 30 minute resurrect which you can manage on chainspell.

Umbral/Astral is pretty much the only spell THM has atm and it far beats elementals on a lot of things, it is also highly unlikely to be resisted due to its unique nature but they now get stuck with 2 basic elementals.

And Shell, well that speaks for itself.

I guess you just really dont like to play your class very well, hell I'm a PLer and I take my class serious and play it to the fullest.

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You should take your own advice and not ASSUME things. They are making combat harder by reducing the amount of abilities and skills we have. They also might add some of these effects later. YOU DON'T KNOW and neither do I. I'm not stupid, I know how useful they are. Yeah I'm upset that they aren't there anymore, but that might be saved for that other magic class they planned on releasing. We honestly don't know so don't get upset with me ok?

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Originally Posted by viion

As far as I'm aware there is no proof that we will get AM later, also we are not getting level cap increase at least until after 1.21 so that's way into next year.

Also You dont know when you get these skills, some of them could be level 50, you dont know.

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Okayeee, you're right. I don't know. But I still don't get why you're asking where they are. That implies that you believe that we won't have them, or that we should have them now. And you don't know that we'll never have them. And you also have no grounds to believe that we need them before level 50 or any time soon. So you're basically in the same boat as me at the moment. And if you honestly believe AM won't appear later on, with no proof on your side either, then I'm more than willing to take that bet with you. Because you're going to lose.

Final Fantasy 1 spells had Fire, Ice, Thunder only.
Final Fantasy 3 (JP) introduced Aero but that was for WHM
Final Fantasy 8 Water is finally introduced

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Water wasn't classic FF spell until FF10 so I dunno, don't think it's really needed... just my opinion.


I should add this also...

Final Fantasy 11 Stone was introduced for the first time

Edit2: Water came in FF8 but was useless back then.

Source: http://goo.gl/X0nfX (Japanese)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Final Fantasy 1 spells had Fire, Ice, Thunder only.
Final Fantasy 3 (JP) introduced Aero but that was for WHM
Final Fantasy 10 Water is finally introduced

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Water wasn't classic FF spell until FF10 so I dunno, don't think it's really needed... just my opinion.

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Well the real problem is that they would have to accomodate some things. If there was no water element, the elemental chart would be all out of whack. Not that you need Water to be a castable nuke by a BLM or WHM in order for the chart to remain valid.

Also they said THM/BLM control six elements. Either they left the remaining elements off the list, or the remaining elements will come later. Since there are 15 actions for THM on the list, I think it's safe to say the remaining elements will come later.

Is there a single target Fire spell? There is for Lightning and Ice but THM 5,6,and 7 are all AoE...

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Originally Posted by viion

A whole thread on this?

What about:
Umbral?
Astral?
Paralyze/Paralyna?
Slow?
Poison/Poisona?
Silena?
Guildskills?
Shockspikes?
Ancient Magic?
Dedicated Bind spell?
Spiritsong?
Raise/Resurrect? (current one says "may trigger prevention of Weakness and Brink of Death effects.")
Purge?
Shell?
Roaming Soul?

So many good spells just gone.


Also wtf is "Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP." lol its no soughspeak! but i do like.

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Add Haste Gravity Escape Tractor and Meteor

Time Mage {Yes, Please}

lets remember they could always add water later when lvl cap goes up.

I dunno. I just really feel like they were trying to keep the list decently short and decided not flush it all out. But you'd think if that was case, they'd name at least ONE water ability somewhere. Marauders are pirates story wise. A nice Water or Wind based axe attack would have made sense.

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Originally Posted by normalforce

I agree, according to the current elemental wheel, Earth now has an advantage because it is weak to a spell that neither THM nor CNJ have access to.

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There is nothing to say that the current wheel will exist after the patch.

I doubt its been forgot, its more likely being saved for Arcanist or another future mage class.

I'm a lot less concerned about Water than I am Shell.

Arcanist Guild is located in Limsa Lominsa, which is surrounded by .....

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Originally Posted by Vingtdeux

Arcanist Guild is located in Limsa Lominsa, which is surrounded by .....

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Exactly, had the same thought.

Plus astral magic is arcane.

@ Reinheart, I'm sure FF8 had water.