PoTD Compromise Idea

I was thinking of this, and what if they made a compromise for the 'savage' floors later on down the road?

Keep it in fixed parties or solo obviously, but make an "Unranked" mode, where Party KOs only send you back to the start of the floor set you are on, however your score will not be saved to the leaderboard and the trophy you can claim on floor 200 is removed, as well as maybe slightly lower chance to find pomanders of intuition.

I think this would be a fine compromise for people who just want to see the difficult stuff but don't care about score or the trophy at the end, and you can still get the mount this way but it is a little less likely.

I wouldn't be against an "Unranked" mode. I don't care about the rankings or whatever, and if what I heard about the prizes for claiming the Floor 200 trophy things at the end is true, it's nothing really that exciting. Idk if I can get behind making the RNG worse for the intuition pomanders than it already is though. D: floors 101-110 last night...all these intuition pomanders we got and only two treasures. T^T

I'd really prefer something where if you wiped, you could at least start back from the beginning of the tier of floors you're on, rather than going all the way back to floor 51. Really puts the pressure on you to not screw up the deeper you go. I know it's supposed to be challenging, but still. XD At least if you wipe in A12S, you don't have to go back and re-clear A9S-A11S. XD

Even if they did a checkpoint at floor 150. So if you wipe on floors 101-150, you go back to floor 101 and start over, and wipes on floors 151-200, go back to 151. Wiping on floor 197, and then having to start back over from 51 is just overkill, in my opinion. And it would make me not want to touch PotD for a while if that happened to me.

I don't really mind the system as it is but 51-100 is mind numbing. It's like doing 50 pointless baby mode floors (compared to 180+) where you can pay half attention and still coast by wasting 1-2hrs. At least it gives tomes I guess.

no thanks, go away. the mount is a reward for braving the hardcore stuff, next you'll be asking for the a12s mount to drop from a12 normal?
get good and get to those levels or buy it like a failure, either way it doesn't matter, they shouldn't add casual mode

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Originally Posted by Xiao_

no thanks, go away. the mount is a reward for braving the hardcore stuff, next you'll be asking for the a12s mount to drop from a12 normal?
get good and get to those levels or buy it like a failure, either way it doesn't matter, they shouldn't add casual mode

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A mount that drops from floor 151 onwards and it doesn't actually get hard until 171 at least.

I'll have to side with people saying no to an unranked mode. The whole point of floors 101-200 is to have very challenging content that isn't Alexander Savage. It's alternate endgame content. What's the point of introducing a non-extreme version of floors 101-200 if doing so just makes them an extension of floors 50-100? Nah, keep PotD the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

A mount that drops from floor 151 onwards and it doesn't actually get hard until 171 at least.

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exactly! i cant help but wonder how many people complaining have actually tried it

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Originally Posted by Xiao_

no thanks, go away. the mount is a reward for braving the hardcore stuff, next you'll be asking for the a12s mount to drop from a12 normal?
get good and get to those levels or buy it like a failure, either way it doesn't matter, they shouldn't add casual mode

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Was there any reason to insult him? Your disagreement could have easily been conveyed without the insults calling him a failure and a bad player.

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Originally Posted by Xiao_

exactly! i cant help but wonder how many people complaining have actually tried it

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I think his point might've been that PotD 101-200 isn't "hardcore" content. I also think it's a pretty big stretch to make a comparison to A12S.

I'd support an easily-accessible unranked version of Floors 100+, I don't see what the problem would be as long as the difficulty remains the same. Personally I'd enjoy being able to do 'difficult' content without having to deal with statics every time I feel like doing something.

What confuses me is that you're allowed to enter A12S alone through Raid Finder, but PotD 100+ is static only? They really need to work on their consistency.

As long as the difficulty for 100+ remained the exact same I don't see what the problem would be with allowing people who went in through matched party to get the same rewards (if they put in the same amount of effort).

Naturally, I wouldn't want the penalties to change either because that wouldn't be fair at all. Dropping a party (static or matched) down from floor 1XX to 50 seems a bit excessive to me, but that's how it is and thus how it should remain

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Originally Posted by Miste

Was there any reason to insult him? Your disagreement could have easily been conveyed without the insults calling him a failure and a bad player.

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These days, a simple "no" is too much work for people.

Nah, I honestly had another thought that might be a better compromise, because I think the only fix that really needs to occur is losing all progress when you d/c solo.


Also let's just say we do use the OP's idea, then I would say you also can't obtain Sacks which would mean that the run up would just be a test to see if you cna pull it off if you lose so that you are more prepared next time. Unranked would work if you removed the reward at 200, the potsherds from brown chest, 50/50 on removing aetherpool ability upgrade, and removing the ability to find Silver/Gold Sacks.


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Now when it comes to solo play,the time versus the chance of d/c makes it difficult to deal with to an extent. Since a 10 floor run can take about 50 minutes more or less at higher floors this idea came to mind. I know it would take time to code this since there would be new data to save such as Current Buffs, Current Floor layout, Current Floor traps etc etc. BUT when you save for the floor it brings you back to a hub where you can't trade with anyone and if you leave said hub you relinquish that save. So say you are on floor 106 with 30 mins left and you d/c. The game will create a save with all that progress and when you log on you will be back in the hub allowed to re-enter with the progress you had before d/cing. But see I don't think this is a lot to ask for because this design wouldn't allow someone to leave and come back in later with more items, when they "save" or "d/c" in this manner the save is only good while they remain in the hub and leaving the hub will cause them to lose that accessibility.

I just would like to see something implemented that relieves the stress of losing all your progress doing a run because of a server side issue or d/cing but another thought that comes to mind if the above might be hard to code is.

Idea 1. Put a Save at the start of each floor that can only be used if you haven't gone into the next room or used any items of that floor. You can "save" your progress and be put back in the hub to continue when you come back but only if you remain in the hub.

Idea 2. If you d/c you are put back in the hub and have to restart the floor with a new layout however you lose the time that you already spent on that floor along with the time on the buffs. So if you were on floor 127 at 27 mins left, cleared it halfway in 4 mins then d/ced and logged back on to enter the dungeon again you would now be on floor 127 with a new layout and 23 minutes left. This would reduce any exploit because time is precious on the later floor you wouldn't have the luxury of purposely d/cing and trying for a new layout because if you used any items or picked up any items while exploring that floor it would reset in a way to show that you not only used X items but you also didn't pick up Y items.

Idea 3. If you can't do any of that, at least save the data to remember the kills and aetherpool of the player involved. So if they d/c they can at least grab from their save data all the kill and aetherpool level to obtain a score for the scoreboard so that they don't just lose access to their score because they d/ced on floor 123 solo.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

I'll have to side with people saying no to an unranked mode. The whole point of floors 101-200 is to have very challenging content that isn't Alexander Savage. It's alternate endgame content. What's the point of introducing a non-extreme version of floors 101-200 if doing so just makes them an extension of floors 50-100? Nah, keep PotD the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Xiao_

no thanks, go away. the mount is a reward for braving the hardcore stuff, next you'll be asking for the a12s mount to drop from a12 normal?
get good and get to those levels or buy it like a failure, either way it doesn't matter, they shouldn't add casual mode

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Did you guys read the first post at all?

Methinks you didn't. Try again. Just to be safe, I'll re-iterate: An unranked mode would be exactly the same with less to no rewards, it just keeps you from having to do the baby floors again for people who want to see the higher ups, because there is literally no reason to force you to do 1 through 100 unless you're trying for the leaderboard (which I am fine with).

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Originally Posted by Miste

Was there any reason to insult him? Your disagreement could have easily been conveyed without the insults calling him a failure and a bad player.

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Thank you, though I was more insulted by them not reading/failing to comprehend my simple idea than the insult honestly. Especially as someone who has done 101+ already and is 3/4ths of the way through a solo run to 100. Just makes their response more hilarious, than anything.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I was thinking of this, and what if they made a compromise for the 'savage' floors later on down the road?

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Why?

If you want to see the difficult stuff but don't care about your score, then run it, and see it, get killed and retry.

Look, I'm all for making the game as accessible as possible, but even for me this is a step too far. We already have normal mode raids and savage mode to allow everyone to experience the raids - if they want to.

But PoTD is different in that you experience the Deep Dungeon level by level until you can go no further. There is no compromise, you go as far as you can, and no further. Why would or should it be any different? If you die, try again. If you have room to upgrade your gear grind that out and try again. If you want to try things differently, do it. But good grief please do not cry about not being able to get the the bottom floor or whine about it being too hard.

Did anyone play the older Rogue like games? Rogue, Nethack, Mines of Moria. These games had an eventual 'bottom' level. It was harder than nails, and if you got there, great. if not, you played over and got closer, or not. It was your decision. Short of cheating, the only way to get to the bottom was play it. PoTD is meant to be this way too. Just because the lwoer floors are difficult doesn't mean anything should be done to facilitate your access.

Actually, it would be kind of sweet to have the Deep Dungeon be so hard that no one can reach the bottom, yet, and perhaps not at all until the gear limits are raised again. Of course by then, there may be more floors and so the cycle continues. Just like Mt Everest, you climb the mountain because it is there, you delve into the deep dungeon, why? Because it's there.

I'm completely against this idea of allowing tourist difficulty levels to allow those who don't want to put in the effort needed to tour the sights. PoTD has no story relevance, it's not like the Coil was. I have no problem at all with a story mode of a raid, if the story matters with respect to the MSQ. But, in content like PoTD, there is no story relevance an the content is specifically designed to be a challenge, an easier mode is not needed.

Somehow I am reminded of Yoda and his training of young Skywalker....Do, or do not! There is no try

No matter what you do or do not do, there are only two outcomes possible in anything, you either do it, or you do not. If you do not attempt to reach the bottom of PoTD, you will never reach it. However, failure is not final, you can always make another attempt. If you continue to attempt until you do reach it, then you have done it. So as Yoda says, Do, or do not. There is no try.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Did you guys read the first post at all?

Methinks you didn't. Try again. Just to be safe, I'll re-iterate: An unranked mode would be exactly the same with less to no rewards, it just keeps you from having to do the baby floors again for people who want to see the higher ups, because there is literally no reason to force you to do 1 through 100 unless you're trying for the leaderboard (which I am fine with).

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Read it.

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as well as maybe slightly lower chance to find pomanders of intuition.

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Just remove accursed hoard and bronze chests, on top of the final reward, then I'll say yes. Otherwise, nah, don't think it's a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why?

If you want to see the difficult stuff but don't care about your score, then run it, and see it, get killed and retry.

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Which is exactly what I am suggesting, the ability to retry easier if you don't care about score/rewards. I'm really confused as to why my first post is so hard to comprehend for some of you. Maybe you are too used to the casual outcry about not being able to get there instantly that this board is overflowing with?

This would not change anything. The only point of it is not having to waste 3 to 4 hours doing the baby floors that are nothing more but time wasters, nothing more. I love PoTD and I love that there are challenging floors now, and I am having a blast doing them, but I don't see the point in having to do story mode every time if you aren't trying for the leaderboard.

If you were forced to do alexander normal again every time you wiped in savage the outcry would be insane. >_>

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Which is exactly what I am suggesting, the ability to retry easier if you don't care about score/rewards. I'm really confused as to why my first post is so hard to comprehend for some of you.

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It's not hard to understand at all, I simply disagree with you. In a Rogue-like game which PoTD is trying to be within FFXIV, if you die, you die. There is no respawning except through a revival item. The risk of death and having to re run the floors is what is meant to keep you on your toes to prevent death.

You are seeking a way around that, to make it easier. What's not clear about that?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

The only point of it is not having to waste 3 to 4 hours doing the baby floors that are nothing more but time wasters, nothing more.

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Helps if you wouldn't exaggerate. It's 2 hours if you're going at a leisurely pace. It's more like 1 hour if you're rushing it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It's not hard to understand at all, I simply disagree with you. In a Rogue-like game which PoTD is trying to be within FFXIV, if you die, you die. There is no respawning except through a revival item. The risk of death and having to re run the floors is what is meant to keep you on your toes to prevent death.

You are seeking a way around that, to make it easier. What's not clear about that?

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It doesn't make it easier though, because the chance of wiping in 51 to 100 is almost literally zero once you get to 90+ weapon and armor with a full group. Just less time wasting would be nice.

But if you prefer wasting time on those story floors, good on you. At least you understand.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Helps if you wouldn't exaggerate. It's 2 hours if you're going at a leisurely pace. It's more like 1 hour if you're rushing it.

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Less than 15 minutes per 10 floors is the exaggeration here. Only one I've ever seen go that fast was 1 to 10.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It doesn't make it easier though, because the chance of wiping in 51 to 100 is almost literally zero once you get to 90+ weapon and armor with a full group. Just less time wasting would be nice.

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Of course it makes it easier. If something is hard enough to wipe you, then you have to retry. Part of the difficulty is getting to the point where you died. But then again since the maps and spawns are relatively random, it's never going to be the same anyway. Allowing you to skip the prior floors and respawn right away on the floor you died on make it easier because you're skipping the part about getting back to where you were.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Less than 15 minutes per 10 floors is the exaggeration here. Only one I've ever seen go that fast was 1 to 10.

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2 hours is 24 minutes per set of 10 floors.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Of course it makes it easier. If something is hard enough to wipe you, then you have to retry. Part of the difficulty is getting to the point where you died. But then again since the maps and spawns are relatively random, it's never going to be the same anyway. Allowing you to skip the prior floors and respawn right away on the floor you died on make it easier because you're skipping the part about getting back to where you were.

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What about just starting again at 100 then? Cos like I said, I have no problem with anything, EXCEPT having to do the boring 51 to 100 everytime.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

2 hours is 24 minutes per set of 10 floors.

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You said 1 hour was possible, which it really isn't. 24 I could see though if you skipped all chests, though that's not exactly a smart thing to do, so 2 and half to 3 hours is more likely.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You said 1 hour was possible, which it really isn't. 24 I could see though if you skipped all chests, though that's not exactly a smart thing to do.

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24 is going at a leisurely pace. I do it all the time.

I actually solo most of the lower floors in less than 30. A party goes much faster.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

What about just starting again at 100 then? Cos like I said, I have no problem with anything, EXCEPT having to do the boring 51 to 100 everytime.

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I'm going to give the equivalent to the reply that I expect to get from Raiders if I ask for a raid to be eased. Don't die.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i-w...-t-die-296.jpg

Re-running those floors is your penance for dying.

No, but seriously. This is how it's meant to be. If you die, you restart. Floor 50 is a mid-patch check point of sorts so I can see the 'sense' in letting you start there. But, I cannot say the same floor for letting you keep 50 floors and respawn on floor 100. The next time PoTD is updated, the gear ceiling will be raised making the current bottom floor more easily accessible. I'd bet it becomes the next check point then.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm going to give the equivalent to the reply that I expect to get from Raiders if I ask for a raid to be eased. Don't die.

Re-running those floors is your penance for dying.

No, but seriously. This is how it's meant to be. If you die, you restart. Floor 50 is a mid-patch check point of sorts so I can see the 'sense' in letting you start there. But, I cannot say the same floor for letting you keep 50 floors and respawn on floor 100. The next time PoTD is updated, the gear ceiling will be raised making the current bottom floor more easily accessible. I'd bet it becomes the next check point then.

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That doesn't really make sense...because as a raider, dying is expected in raiding, quite often :P But if you say so.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

24 is going at a leisurely pace. I do it all the time.

I actually solo most of the lower floors in less than 30. A party goes much faster.

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I don't buy it, unless like I said you're skipping all optional rooms and chests, but yeah if you say so.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That doesn't really make sense...because as a raider, dying is expected in raiding, quite often :P But if you say so.

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The reply I expect from raiders if I asked for a raid to be ease is "get gud". I applied that same feeling to PoTD and your complaint, and arrived at "Don't Die". IMHO, they convey a similar tone and expectation.

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Originally Posted by Xiao_

exactly! i cant help but wonder how many people complaining have actually tried it

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Wasn't agreeing with you, was making the point that it isn't as hardcore as you say it is.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I don't buy it, unless like I said you're skipping all optional rooms and chests, but yeah if you say so.

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Believe it or not, makes no difference to me. But going back to this:

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You said 1 hour was possible, which it really isn't. 24 I could see though if you skipped all chests, though that's not exactly a smart thing to do, so 2 and half to 3 hours is more likely.

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Are the floors worthless time wasters, and you don't care about the rewards, or not? If they're nothing more than time wasters and you don't care about the rewards, why are you not skipping all the optional stuff?

the only compromise i'd be up for is letting you do unscored 101-200 fixed parties after you've unlocked it once before the normal way.

I haven't actually found a group to do the full dungeon with yet but the idea of a dungeon that requires a vetting process to get into and long term cooperation between a fixed group and is actually hardcore "die and it's over" style is very exciting to me.

if they want to do an easy mode, which is really what most of these threads is actually asking for, downgrading the cursed hordes from silver > gold to iron > silver seems like a requirement as well.

but again... once you've proven yourself i feel redoing 51-100 every time just to try will be problematic. Especially since the best rewards are random rewards from random drops

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with this idea.

Difficult content should be kept difficult. It was made that way on purpose to give a challenge.
To remove that challenge removes the purpose of that content.

You can think of Floors 1-100 as Alexander normal mode. It's really easy for just about anyone to do. (But still much easier than Alex normal.)
Floors 101 - 200 are Savage mode (as you said). So, it should be Savage. Why should it be any easier? If it were any easier to do, then it would just be like floors 1-100.

The rewards need to match the effort. I think things are fine just the way they are.

If people really want the mount, they need to be be willing to work with friends (or at least make a static of random people), and make the effort to obtain it.
Considering that floors 101-150 have been soloed by many people (and at least one person soloed to 160), it must be much easier to go past 150 in a group.
It just takes time, effort, and a little concentration.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I don't buy it, unless like I said you're skipping all optional rooms and chests, but yeah if you say so.

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Here you go, for your knowledge.

http://i.imgur.com/fixUMKI.png

http://i.imgur.com/uobsWUw.png

32 minutes. I skipped only 2 chests and picked up 3 accursed hoard.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I think his point might've been that PotD 101-200 isn't "hardcore" content. I also think it's a pretty big stretch to make a comparison to A12S.

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the comparison i made isn't trying to say "this content is literally as hard as a12s", i was comparing the attitudes towards the mount. OP is asking for it to be made easier to get this mount, which i compared against asking for the a12s mount to be made easier to get, nothing more

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

If you were forced to do alexander normal again every time you wiped in savage the outcry would be insane. >_>

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The kind of players that are running Savage could destroy those almost instantly, and then be right back in Savage. Amusingly enough, the kind of players that are good enough to run 101-200 do EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

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Originally Posted by Isala

The kind of players that are running Savage could destroy those almost instantly, and then be right back in Savage. Amusingly enough, the kind of players that are good enough to run 101-200 do EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

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He also have never played FFXI because that is how it worked..

You will spend 4-5 hours, or a week farming pop items, to pop certain special bosses, to get pop items from them, to then pop a big boss. and if you wiped? welp, you now have to start all over. which, in fact took far longer then redoing all of alex normal to get back into savage..

There was one event in that game, einherjar, that took 2 weeks to get items needed for Odin, you wiped to him???? To bad, got to start allllll over. see you in 2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

He also have never played FFXI because that is how it worked..

You will spend 4-5 hours, or a week farming pop items, to pop certain special bosses, to get pop items from them, to then pop a big boss. and if you wiped? welp, you now have to start all over. which, in fact took far longer then redoing all of alex normal to get back into savage..

There was one event in that game, einherjar, that took 2 weeks to get items needed for Odin, you wiped to him???? To bad, got to start allllll over. see you in 2 weeks.

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I loved the games where your group would take all the effort to spawn a world boss, only for an opposing guild to come PK you all, and steal your boss.

I would be all for this idea as long as the mount is not a possible reward. While it is complete RNG, the mount is there to motivate people to accept the challenge as it is. Giving that as a potential reward for easier floors defeats the purpose of having the challenge there at all.

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Originally Posted by Isala

I loved the games where your group would take all the effort to spawn a world boss, only for an opposing guild to come PK you all, and steal your boss.

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That could easily be reported tho. Altho the mess Nidhogg created with his spike flails.. and then watching Linkshells fight over his claim, well those were just fun to watch, in a i can't keep my eyes off this horrible crash way.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

That could easily be reported tho. Altho the mess Nidhogg created with his spike flails.. and then watching Linkshells fight over his claim, well those were just fun to watch, in a i can't keep my eyes off this horrible crash way.

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Never got the point of reporting though. If you couldn't keep the boss, you didn't deserve the boss. It was very much a part of the game, even if it did suck for the losing side.