Poll: If/When a new Healer is added...

Link to Poll

This poll is for funsies. >///w///> ♥

I'd want to see quick, lower potency healing. I'd be even more happy if it was a Chemist of sorts.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I'd want to see quick, lower potency healing. I'd be even more happy if it was a Chemist of sorts.

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Wouldn't Chemist fall under "Heals via consumable items"?

Think about it, a healer that heals for a specific amount versus potency or percentage like Alchemists in X-2 could be interesting. (I regret not thinking about it when I made the post... >w> )

Yes, but I'd prefer a quick healer with lower potencies, even if it wasn't a Chemist.
To be completely honest, ANYTHING that goes beyond the HoT/shield type of healing we have now is welcome.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Wouldn't Chemist fall under "Heals via consumable items"?

Think about it, a healer that heals for a specific amount versus potency or percentage like Alchemists in X-2 could be interesting. (I regret not thinking about it when I made the post... >w> )

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I was tempted to go with "heal via consumable items" just because that most likely means Chemist. But it shouldn't use consumable items, so it wouldn't really be an accurate vote.

I'm not sure I'd go with any of those. I'm pretty biased since my vote goes to "when a new healer is added, it should be Chemist."

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I was tempted to go with "heal via consumable items" just because that most likely means Chemist. But it shouldn't use consumable items, so it wouldn't really be an accurate vote.

I'm not sure I'd go with any of those. I'm pretty biased since my vote goes to "when a new healer is added, it should be Chemist."

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But how would Chemist play?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But how would Chemist play?

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http://img06.deviantart.net/7139/i/2...vs__ramza_.jpg

Though i honestly kinda think of a chemist like Ninja. Mixing different ingredients then storing it away like an AST (for backup use) or using right there. Then of course basic healing "items" that perhaps could be used for basic Cure/Cure2/Aoe/"oh shit" heal

"Dancer is a healer and punches things to heal others" seems to be leading right now..xD

(yes I know that is not literally he name of the option, but it is about as obvious as "Chemist is a healer and uses consumables to heal others". Oh wait, that's not the name of the option either ;))

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But how would Chemist play?

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The way I see it, probably a mix between the mechanics of ninja and astrologian. As for the effects of that... hard to say. it could probably be a mix of some of those things mentioned in there.

Maybe I'll go with "negative effects on enemies."

By the way, what does this one mean?:

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Burst healing quickly but with weaker strength

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Voted for debilitating healer. I'm not sure why, but it sounds like it would be interesting, at least.

That said, I'd be 100% behind Chemist, even if it wouldn't be a debilitating healer (though given the proper items, I'm certain it could be). Tactics needs more love!

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Wouldn't Chemist fall under "Heals via consumable items"?

Think about it, a healer that heals for a specific amount versus potency or percentage like Alchemists in X-2 could be interesting. (I regret not thinking about it when I made the post... >w> )

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The main problem with that is the main problem with healing items in a great deal of games - HP constantly increases, while the amount healed doesn't. It'll probably be an even bigger problem in FFXIV (and MMOs in general), since HP is always increasing, consumable items become less and less of the percentage of someone's max HP, greatly decreasing the effectiveness until it's put on the sidelines forever. (...Granted, you could give it higher potency heals as the level caps increase, but that's worse ability bloat than what already exists.)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But how would Chemist play?

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I'd want Chemist to have a "mudra" system of sorts tied to their Mix command, along with quicker heals using potions made on the spot (imagine the casting, of, let's say, "Salve" - a counterpart to Cure ut with lower potency, where the character shakes a little glass bottle while it fills with a magical concotion that is later thrown at the target)

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The way I see it, probably a mix between the mechanics of ninja and astrologian.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Though i honestly kinda think of a chemist like Ninja. Mixing different ingredients then storing it away like an AST (for backup use) or using right there.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I'd want Chemist to have a "mudra" system of sorts tied to their Mix command, along with quicker heals using potions made on the spot

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Well, there you have it. My dream job right there.

EDIT: Whoa, we're all lalas. One of us!

I really enjoyed the Smite-spec of Disc priest (well, I loved Disc priest forever, but just mentioning that one), as well as Chloromancer and Defiler in Rift, so I'd love to see a healer that makes use of splash healing through damage! And with more than just a single flavor spell...

Note that Chemist doesn't have to use actual items. Think FFX-2, where it was just an action with the same name. Then they could give the "Potion" an actual potency instead of having to worry about those percentages and cooldowns. They could still enhance the effectiveness of said items though, if so desired. Then throw in that Mix idea there and...

Also I've mentioned this before but there kinda already is a Chemist healer, sorta. In the Thaumaturge quests, you get aided by one of the brothers as a healer. It's a sham class, but it has a unique heal called Aqua Vitae, which is a potion effect heal. So there's that!

As chemist seems to be one of the focuses here, I think the class could work as a nontraditional healer, by that I mean I could see them working the lore to a degree where chemist use gases and fumes to heal, where fumes would be single target, gases would be multiple and also work with debuffing targets, that way we would have a great combo of AST + CHM to compliment the SCH + WHM combo.

Alternatively people suggest NIN and AST as examples how the class would work with mixing and storing, well I could see them using MCH or SCH as a way to go to, bring in a portable fumigation machine that spams out AoE based heals or enemy debuffs, or a combination of the two at the same time, but sacrifice heal potency or debuff potency.

Resources sounds like what a controler did on dcuo giveng power back

To echo the thoughts of several posts here, I really love the idea of the Chemist. Potion-mixing (as a skill, not a consumable) for heals and damage, focusing on debuffing enemies for utility. It would make a nice compliment to AST who focus on buffing allies. Plus we have two mystical-type healers, so this would give SCH a science buddy!

Would totally main a Chemist. Much goggles. In another thread, someone mentioned their weapon could be a flask and a potion-launching bazooka. I'm all in!!

What about a Musicalist? Someone using a flute like Eiko in FF9, buffing the party by playing concerts and healing with music? Maybe also tp/mp Based. I know we already have bards but musicalist would be really ...musical.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I'd want to see quick, lower potency healing.

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Hmm, did they try this with AST? when it first came out healing output was very low and a strain on MP to the point where people were excluding it from harder fights, unless you were REALLY good with it, because the card buffs could not make up for it.

I do NOT think a healing class with low potency will work, as that was tried and failed.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Hmm, did they try this with AST? when it first came out healing output was very low and a strain on MP to the point where people were excluding it from harder fights, unless you were REALLY good with it, because the card buffs could not make up for it.

I do NOT think a healing class with low potency will work, as that was tried and failed.

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It can if the class is built for it.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I'd want to see quick, lower potency healing. I'd be even more happy if it was a Chemist of sorts.

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So repeat the failure of Astro and wait 4 patches while it gets buffed until it just has better versions of everyone elses toolkit?

No thank you.

Half the ideas in the OP and throughout the thread are DOA at best.

Though I'd love to see some kind of mudra-esque chemist healer.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

It can if the class is built for it.

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No healer built around low healing is ever going to work, Because they are Healers.. if they can't keep up with high damage output, then nothing else they do will matter, hence why i pointed out astro, even tho cards clearly give a boost in stats, during the start of HW most people hated it because it simply could not keep up. That's just how this game works.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

No healer built around low healing is ever going to work, Because they are Healers.. if they can't keep up with high damage output, then nothing else they do will matter, hence why i pointed out astro, even tho cards clearly give a boost in stats, during the start of HW most people hated it because it simply could not keep up. That's just how this game works.

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Well yeah with that attitude nothing like that will ever work. I'd like to think they can pull it off rather than instantly shooting it down.

Chiropracter: Melee healer that cures be whacking allies upside the head with their caduceus weapon.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Well yeah with that attitude nothing like that will ever work. I'd like to think they can pull it off rather than instantly shooting it down.

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You can't just hope and dream that they can do it, they need to be able to keep up to be a viable class. A healer that heals for 1k instantly is great, but if the tank with 10k hp just took a 7k hit to the face then that healer needs to heal several times (and thus more time) before the tank gets a follow up auto attack or raid wide dmg. What if someone is dead? What is the other healer is trapped in an unavoidable Gaol?

Does this small heal come with a shield? A HoT? How much MP are they spending on these small heals? Do the heals chain so they can be rewarded for the sacrifice and gamble of the smaller heals, later? More information on your concept is needed.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Well yeah with that attitude nothing like that will ever work. I'd like to think they can pull it off rather than instantly shooting it down.

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Were you not paying attention to the failure of Astro? Like.... clearly it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Were you not paying attention to the failure of Astro? Like.... clearly it doesn't work.

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What failure? I had zero issues with the way it handled day 1.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

What failure? I had zero issues with the way it handled day 1.

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YOU haveing zero issues is debatable, i also had "0 issues" as i had it 60 in the 1st week, that does not mean the class wasn't majorly flawed, major MP consumption for less healing output, cards giving minimal boosts, the list goes on. if you actually tried raiding with it along side a co healer, the problems were very obvious.

Do not try this "well i saw no problem with it, so it was fine" card, seriously.

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Originally Posted by lordparanoia

What about a Musicalist? Someone using a flute like Eiko in FF9, buffing the party by playing concerts and healing with music? Maybe also tp/mp Based. I know we already have bards but musicalist would be really ...musical.

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The closest thing we will get as any type of entertainer would be Dancer. They already kinda messed up Bard for that lol.
They don't even sing, they play a Harp. But to break away from Burst Healing and Migatation.
Dancer could be HoT that have stacked HoT so the more you dance, the more healing can be added up I guess?
Say you dance but it stacks up to 3 times, use a skill called "Samba" to increase your potency for a bit or something idk lol.
Chemist could be a mix of stuff....They could mix for really good potions and save a few maybe, or mix things for a buff, shield, a HoT pot, something new.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

What failure? I had zero issues with the way it handled day 1.

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For once, I agree with Blood Aki...In 3.0 I considered myself a REALLY good AST, as good as I could be...
but obviously it suffered issues, and you had to be on your toes 24/7. I was using LA EVERY TIME it was OCD.
AST was awful, pure 100% awful until this more recent patch that made me 100% main it now.
It took over a year of TLC to fix what mess it was. It had issues, you really can't deny it if it took THIS long to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Link to Poll

This poll is for funsies. >///w///> ♥

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I think WHM/SCH covers everything and AST is a hybrid of the two. Consumables seems clunky and the rest sounds more like support.

Current Results:
1. Healing via damaging/draining enemy health at 150 votes (30%)
2. Heals that have negative effects on enemies at 86 votes (17%)
3. Using oGCD heals so it can focus more on DPS at 60 votes (12%)
4. Heals with added buffs at 47 votes (9%)
5. Something not mentioned at 29 votes (6%)
6. Recovering resources (HP, MP, and/or TP) at 23 votes (5%)
7-8. Burst healing quickly but with weaker strength and Healing over time at 22 votes, each (4% each)
9. Mitigating damage at 19 votes (4%)
10. Healing via consumable items at 18 votes (4%)
11. Healing based off percentages, not potencies at 15 votes (3%)
12. Stronger but slower burst healing at 5 votes (1%)

Ideas from the Reddit thread:
-Heal by damaging foes for a fraction of the damage to nearby partymembers, healing the partymember with the lowest HP. (used WoW's Discipline Priest as example)
-Healer with a mudra-like system. (Chemist and Dancer were both suggested)
-Delayed heals
-Something like Resto Druid from WoW (Never got into WoW, so no clue what this mean... >w>() )
-Channeled healing (healing a selected target, continuously)

Honestly, something kind of healer that's not a mage (though I love them so) just to try something different, so Dancer or Chemist.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

stuff

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Agreed. I don't see much possibility for new gameplay styles in simply having a healer that... heals for less. That's not a very good defining mechanic.

Still hoping for something a la Chloromancer. :3

Anything that isn't a weird hybrid of what we already have, another mitigation healer with "weaker or stronger" shields or a burst healer with "weaker or stronger heals" is fine with me.

AST was an absolute mess, I hope they never try to base a healer off previous healers again.

Also I feel the current healers take up too many specialities. WHM can burst heal and regen, SCH can burst heal, shield and regen, AST can do all of that. We should really trim down the healer toolkit.

If WHM is to be out strong burst healer, take away or limit their regens, but supercharge their base heals. That way we can have a healer that specializes in regeneration snd not feel like a WHM ripoff.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Anything that isn't a weird hybrid of what we already have, another mitigation healer with "weaker or stronger" shields or a burst healer with "weaker or stronger heals" is fine with me.

AST was an absolute mess, I hope they never try to base a healer off previous healers again.

Also I feel the current healers take up too many specialities. WHM can burst heal and regen, SCH can burst heal, shield and regen, AST can do all of that. We should really trim down the healer toolkit.

If WHM is to be out strong burst healer, take away or limit their regens, but supercharge their base heals. That way we can have a healer that specializes in regeneration snd not feel like a WHM ripoff.

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The problem is that every healer must be able to burst about the same amount or else they'll fall behind. So there's no such thing as a "burst healer."

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

Note that Chemist doesn't have to use actual items. Think FFX-2, where it was just an action with the same name. Then they could give the "Potion" an actual potency instead of having to worry about those percentages and cooldowns. They could still enhance the effectiveness of said items though, if so desired. Then throw in that Mix idea there and...

Also I've mentioned this before but there kinda already is a Chemist healer, sorta. In the Thaumaturge quests, you get aided by one of the brothers as a healer. It's a sham class, but it has a unique heal called Aqua Vitae, which is a potion effect heal. So there's that!

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You don't even have to go to a different game. Archers don't use arrows.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The problem is that every healer must be able to burst about the same amount or else they'll fall behind. So there's no such thing as a "burst healer."

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Hmm, what's that Cure III doing over there?

>> Each healer needs to be able to deal with the same burst intensity situations. Whether they do so by having proportionate burst healing at their disposal or through setting up for the situation does not significantly affect viability, nor therefore balance.

The more we fixate on each healer having exactly the same capabilities, the fewer reasons SE has to actually develop more healers.

On topic: Personally I'd just like to see greater undermechanic depth given to each of the three healers we have, to better diversify them, and then see where all we can go. I'd also like to see more of a hybrid at some point, rooted in healing by way of his toolkit dependencies or burst outputs, but with gameplay in all three roles.