Poll: If/When Dancer is added to XIV, I would like it to be...

Link to poll

This time, I didn't add a "Don't want added" option... >w>

Again, this is a poll for fun, not for SE or anything. >///w///> ♥

If we do get it, it'll be a healer.

As a DPS of any kind it would feel too similar to MNK. As a tank it wouldn't really make any sense. As a healer though, it would be one of the only opportunities for them to give us a TP based healing job. Given how the devs are struggling to differentiate the MP based healers this would be a really easy one to make unique simply due to having a different resource system.

A lot of votes seem to be favoring support/utility in either the healer or dps role atm.

i would like to see it as a DPS with a single knife and support skills - some kind of a meele bard, with dances instead of songs ^^

I'll be upset if it's not a healer that's the only role dnc really fits into.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

As a healer though, it would be one of the only opportunities for them to give us a TP based healing job.

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And completely destroy any semblance of balance in the process. I would also argue that if anything, it would feel too similar to Ninja as melee DPS, seeing as Monk has next to zero support and I can't imagine any rendition of dancer - Tank, DPS or Healer - that comes without ample support abilities. That and daggers being the most common weapon for dancers.

Personally, I have a hard time imagining a dancer without mobility and an even harder time imagining SE being able to balance a healer with lots of mobility, so if it's a healer, it likely will be a "dancer" in the same way a summoner without summons is still a summoner because it's named such.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And completely destroy any semblance of balance in the process. I would also argue that if anything, it would feel too similar to Ninja as melee DPS, seeing as Monk has next to zero support and I can't imagine any rendition of dancer - Tank, DPS or Healer - that comes without ample support abilities. That and daggers being the most common weapon for dancers.

Personally, I have a hard time imagining a dancer without mobility and an even harder time imagining SE being able to balance a healer with lots of mobility, so if it's a healer, it likely will be a "dancer" in the same way a summoner without summons is still a summoner because it's named such.

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If the healer has lower yet constant healing, I'd say that would be the main gimmick for them. I mean still give them some form of emergency heal like Benediction or Essential Dignity of course though.

I would like dancer as a support melee dps or a healer with buffs, similar to ast but instead with dances and stuff.
Maybe like NIN mudras? Combinations of different dance moves to make different spells would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And completely destroy any semblance of balance in the process. I would also argue that if anything, it would feel too similar to Ninja as melee DPS, seeing as Monk has next to zero support and I can't imagine any rendition of dancer - Tank, DPS or Healer - that comes without ample support abilities. That and daggers being the most common weapon for dancers.

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Would you mind expanding on how exactly it would destroy any semblance of balance? Unless you haven't noticed, TP vs MP use does not unbalance the tank or DPS roles. Why exactly would it be inherently unbalanced for the healers?

Personally I want DNC to be a debuffer/ support healer. It uses MP, like the other healers, to heal and support, while at the same time uses TP to attack and debuff the enemies. Kind of combining ideas from FFT dancer and bard jobs, where they were a debuffer and buffer respectively.

I don't see using TP to heal as being a good idea. They would need a different type of support from BRD/MCH to refill their resource pool than the other healer which would be a huge shot against them. Goad would be the only help they could get for this, which would make the duo mandatory in intense situations. If they need to sprint it would completely destroy their resources.

If the job was a melee healer, I see it working much like DRK. It would use MP to heal, and refill its MP through attacking.

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

I don't see using TP to heal as being a good idea. They would need a different type of support from BRD/MCH to refill their resource pool than the other healer which would be a huge shot against them. Goad would be the only help they could get for this, which would make the duo mandatory in intense situations. If they need to sprint it would completely destroy their resources.

If the job was a melee healer, I see it working much like DRK. It would use MP to heal, and refill its MP through attacking.

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Well this all depends on how they design the job to work mechanically. MP does not work the same for every job that has access to it. BLMs regenerate their MP actively by using specific skills. DRKs regenerate their MP with buff management and combos. Why can't a new job use TP differently to the other TP based jobs?

I always see people shooting down job concepts on these forums based solely on existing job mechanics, yet a new job won't use existing mechanics or it wouldn't be a very unique new job. There's no reason DNC couldn't use TP to heal and actively generate more TP in some way. Hell I can think of dozens of different ways TP based healing would work just fine. DNC was a TP based healer in FFXI. It works.

Hmm, the majority votes were about what I expected.

> DPS with a focus on utility/support.

Was tempted to put "Not listed" just because I think I might be imagining that differently than most though, if any previous combos are an indication. I'd like the Dancer to be a sort of combo-middleman or small scale battlefield-manipulator, with about the damage of a (skilled) Bard, and a hefty raid dps contribution capable of re-centering group tactics a bit around what all it provides. I'm not remotely interested in the various "dances" and would prefer that those effects be dealt instead through the actual movement and choice of attacks the Dancer performs.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Well this all depends on how they design the job to work mechanically. MP does not work the same for every job that has access to it. BLMs regenerate their MP actively by using specific skills. DRKs regenerate their MP with buff management and combos. Why can't a new job use TP differently to the other TP based jobs?

I always see people shooting down job concepts on these forums based solely on existing job mechanics, yet a new job won't use existing mechanics or it wouldn't be a very unique new job. There's no reason DNC couldn't use TP to heal and actively generate more TP in some way. Hell I can think of dozens of different ways TP based healing would work just fine. DNC was a TP based healer in FFXI. It worked.

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While any system can potentially work, that assumes larger surrounding changes to clear those particular obstacles. It may well be that come 4.0, this comparison between TP and MP won't even be a thing. One or the other may be removed entirely, jobs may each take on unique ways of regenerating TP, raid support for either may be increased or decreased in weight or dependence, every class may end up with a means of MP consumption, so on and so forth.

But, assuming the present systems remain for the time being, those particular obstacles could cripple the idea of a TP-based healer. Moreover, they could cripple the Dancer's means of differentiating itself from the others. What difference does it make if it uses TP instead of MP, but consumes TP only at the same rate over time from both attacks and heals that any other healer would with MP, and regenerates the same proportion over time with Invigorate or its own skill that other healers generate with Shroud, LA, or AF? None, except that the Dancer is most likely in melee range and is hopefully given the mobility to compensate for that.

Sprint at present would cripple a TP-based Dancer. Assuming the idea is even considered, so too would likely be changes to Sprint, negating its TP cost, making it a toggle, or even uniquely having Dancer consume some amount of MP for mobility, including Sprint, instead of TP. But at present the Dancer would be locked out of its use, relying only on its unique mobility skills.

The lack of Mage's Ballad and Promoted Bishop are less significant. Rather than a lost resource, it creates a resource split between the Dancer and other healer that would otherwise be present only in long or AoE-required fights with physical dps, and ultimately creates a meta similar to MCH's Hypercharge, where either all casters or all physical are preferred for maximum effect. Dancers, being physical, would be the go-to off-healer in an all-physical composition, while deweighted in compositions that are caster-heavy. Nothing new there, apart from the NIN synergy, which we already see between Ninjas and Skill Speed classes and Warriors.

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

If the job was a melee healer, I see it working much like DRK. It would use MP to heal, and refill its MP through attacking.

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This could actually be just as crippling. Unless the Dancer is MP-efficient enough (similarly to a Cure/Physic/Benefic spam and HoTs only full time healer) not to require time spent attacking, it would necessarily have downtime from healing, and would be unable to regenerate during actual fight downtime. This could be immensely unbalancing; if the Dancer is balanced for the downtime inefficiency, it will over-perform in fights without it, while still likely under-performing in fights with it. Due to the homogeneity of our healers so far, that would stick out, badly. If MP could instead be regenerated also via non-targeted weaponskills (e.g. "dances") then this would be less of an issue.

While such a healer would likely excel in the current meta, this could be problematic in entering a new tier of raid content, especially if healing requirements came to be tuned higher. That issue can then be further mitigated through role-specific, rather than job-specific gear, and so on, as a Dancer main to-be could temporarily be something else until geared enough to make the swap to the then more efficient healer, whose healing downtime is still primarily DPS uptime.

If it does exist, it'll be a hybrid of Monk and Ninja. Just think about it, it could then potentially have access to Goad, Mantra, Second wind, internal release, jugulate, assassinate, Perfect Dodge/Shadeshift.

If it's Utility Support then it's going to suffer of "bandaid fix after bandaid fix" just like how AST was.
What was DNC in XI? DPS/Healer?
I just don't want RDM as a healer, please God...

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Personally, I have a hard time imagining a dancer without mobility and an even harder time imagining SE being able to balance a healer with lots of mobility, so if it's a healer, it likely will be a "dancer" in the same way a summoner without summons is still a summoner because it's named such.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

If the healer has lower yet constant healing, I'd say that would be the main gimmick for them. I mean still give them some form of emergency heal like Benediction or Essential Dignity of course though.

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AST was exactly that on release: a healer with high mobility (lots of instant heals), but lower potencys and party buffs on top of that - we all have seen how that worked out.

Here are the current results:

1. A DPS that focuses more on utility/support at 116 votes
2. A Healer that focuses more on utility/support at 106 votes
3. A Healer that focuses more on off-healing and damage dealing at 67 votes
4. A DPS that focuses on doing weak but fast-paced damage at 44 votes
5. An Evasion/Avoidance-based Tank at 41 votes
6. A Healer that focuses more on healing-over-time at 26
7. A Healer that focuses more on crowd control/mezzing at 18 votes
8. A DPS that focuses more on crowd control/mezzing at 14 votes
9. Something that was not listed at 13 votes
10. A Healer that focuses more on burst heals at 8 votes
11. A DPS that focuses more on damage-over-time
12-13. A DPS that focuses on slower but more solid damage & A Healer that focuses more on preemptive heals and mitigation at 5 votes each
14. A Self-Healing Tank at 4 votes
15-16. A Mitigation-based Tank & A classic Meat-Shield Tank at 2 votes each

"Crowd control/mezzing" is the closest thing there was to what I wanted.

Definitely would want dancer to incapacitate the enemy in some way. While Dancer has flirted with doing other stuff more, debuffing the enemy is probably the most consistent role it has in the series.

And players (at least on the forums) definitely want "tradition". That's how we got into this whole mess with SMN.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

If the healer has lower yet constant healing, I'd say that would be the main gimmick for them. I mean still give them some form of emergency heal like Benediction or Essential Dignity of course though.

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Lower but constant healing means you sacrifice burst healing, which means it'd work if all bosses had a damage aura or constant and weak AoE, but the moment you throw in continuous spike damage (Ahk Morn), DNC would be screwed.

I voted evasion-based tank. And that's only because it's the closest to how I think it would work. Have it focus on dodging and near-dodging attacks to mitigate damage, with the standard defensive cooldowns and buffs to keep active in order to hold aggro.

Personally I'd like them to toss the trinity out the window, or rather to shoehorn in 'support' as a proper role and throw DNC in there with BRD (sorry BRD) and maybe 1 other. Then your 4-man setup would be tank, healer, DPS, support, and double that for 8-man content. I think inclusion of a proper support role would add a decent amount of much needed variety into battle content.

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Originally Posted by Tint

AST was exactly that on release: a healer with high mobility (lots of instant heals), but lower potencys and party buffs on top of that - we all have seen how that worked out.

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It worked out quite well minus those who couldn't grip it. Leveled it from 1-60 as soon as I could and I had zero issues keeping my tanks alive, the only time I had an issue with the job was when they swapped which cards RR into which effect. I have confidence in the team to make a healer that can sustain on low but constant heals, this in turn means the healer can be more involved in actual fighting as well, just obviously missing the mass healing power of a WHM.

i'm curious to know how a dance can heal a wound, a dps with support/utility make more sense. dancer is not magical, then make it a healer have no sense.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I voted evasion-based tank. And that's only because it's the closest to how I think it would work. Have it focus on dodging and near-dodging attacks to mitigate damage, with the standard defensive cooldowns and buffs to keep active in order to hold aggro.

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i don't think an eavsion tank will ever happen in FF14, because it's almost impossible to balance one. you HAVE to survive tank busters. but you can't simply dodge them, that's overpowered. and the healers want to have some work too. if the tank dodges the attacks, they have nothing to heal ^^ wich is overpowered aswell. but if you dodge not often enough you are too weak as a tank...

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

It worked out quite well minus those who couldn't grip it. Leveled it from 1-60 as soon as I could and I had zero issues keeping my tanks alive, the only time I had an issue with the job was when they swapped which cards RR into which effect. I have confidence in the team to make a healer that can sustain on low but constant heals, this in turn means the healer can be more involved in actual fighting as well, just obviously missing the mass healing power of a WHM.

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yeah, i always thought it was silly to buff his healing. they should have buffed his support and also give him strong support for his co-healer to compensate what the AST is lacking. it's also laughable how all the AST's are complaining their heals are not strong enough - and at the same time talking about healer dps and how you can dps in ALL fights... something is odd here.

I voted evasion tank. Let's have something unique.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i don't think an eavsion tank will ever happen in FF14, because it's almost impossible to balance one. you HAVE to survive tank busters. but you can't simply dodge them, that's overpowered. and the healers want to have some work too. if the tank dodges the attacks, they have nothing to heal ^^ wich is overpowered aswell. but if you dodge not often enough you are too weak as a tank...

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I actually wrote on that topic. I also agree that outright evading attacks is overpowered, but I did say that it was close to how I think DNC would work.

Utility/support DPS please. Healer debuffer? Sure.

Design wise, I could see it having the Mudra gimmick NIN has (but it's on gcd?) but it's dance steps instead. It could be more support than DPS, making up for it by increasing the party's overall damage but still be a good personal damage dealer if they want to, for the price of less overall party damage I guess.

Personally I think the avoidance tank is a good place for it. Everyone wants it as dps for some reason when everyone also wants samurai and RDM as dps too lol...

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Utility/support DPS please. Healer debuffer? Sure.

Design wise, I could see it having the Mudra gimmick NIN has (but it's on gcd?) but it's dance steps instead. It could be more support than DPS, making up for it by increasing the party's overall damage but still be a good personal damage dealer if they want to, for the price of less overall party damage I guess.

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actually i see more a system of combo like the monk, you see how the monk get buff with some cycle, why not make that when she reach some point she give a buff widely and depending of the series of step she do the buff become stronger, like the monk. but she need to continue to dance and fight for maintain this buff!

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Originally Posted by Norleas

Personally I think the avoidance tank is a good place for it. Everyone wants it as dps for some reason when everyone also wants samurai and RDM as dps too lol...

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because we already have a tank that is lacking i'm sure adding another tank, especially an evasion that are know for be a mess to balance, is a nice idea. i will repeat something i have said countless time.... add another tank will not make more player switch to tank. if they don't like tanking they will not.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

actually i see more a system of combo like the monk, you see how the monk get buff with some cycle, why not make that when she reach some point she give a buff widely and depending of the series of step she do the buff become stronger, like the monk. but she need to continue to dance and fight for maintain this buff!

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Ooh, yeah that one is pretty neat, too. I'd prefer that more.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

because we already have a tank that is lacking i'm sure adding another tank, especially an evasion that are know for be a mess to balance, is a nice idea. i will repeat something i have said countless time.... add another tank will not make more player switch to tank. if they don't like tanking they will not.

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We still need more variety in the tank roster. Right now we have three guys in plate armor, two of which use swords. Depending on the number of jobs that will be added to the game in total, I would expect something around 4 or 5 tank jobs in total.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

actually i see more a system of combo like the monk, you see how the monk get buff with some cycle, why not make that when she reach some point she give a buff widely and depending of the series of step she do the buff become stronger, like the monk. but she need to continue to dance and fight for maintain this buff!



because we already have a tank that is lacking i'm sure adding another tank, especially an evasion that are know for be a mess to balance, is a nice idea. i will repeat something i have said countless time.... add another tank will not make more player switch to tank. if they don't like tanking they will not.

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Why take from the monk? Then monk isn't it's own thing anymore and dancer won't be either. I'm not a fan of making a copy cat class.

the monk particularity is to be free to use any skill and the stance system... not the combo system that is used by every melee jobs!

here i was more talking about the buff the monk get with the combo system, forcing the monk to chain over and over for keep the buff running. exept in the case of the dancer for keep the dance effect the dancer must chain the combo.
and i feel the chakra will become more important in the 60-70, at least i hope or it will be a lost to add this system without use it more.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

We still need more variety in the tank roster. Right now we have three guys in plate armor, two of which use swords. Depending on the number of jobs that will be added to the game in total, I would expect something around 4 or 5 tank jobs in total.

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honestly i will prefer a pure magic tank, i will not be surprise to see a red mage tank.

ps: i want to be more clear about what i'm talking about the dancer, here i see it like a dance, that start slowly, but become better at the rythm increase, but the effect of the dance remain only if the dancer continue to dance. on this point it will be similar to the monk, but it's stop there... it will not have the stance system. a dance follow a rythm define, then the combo will be fixed, maybe it will have more branch for allows the different buff. because i don't see the dancer using it buff like the bard either.

for me the dancer must have an active control over it buff and be active as much as the dancer. then for me a combo system that force to continue to dance make sense.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Personally I want DNC to be a debuffer/ support healer. It uses MP, like the other healers, to heal and support, while at the same time uses TP to attack and debuff the enemies. Kind of combining ideas from FFT dancer and bard jobs, where they were a debuffer and buffer respectively.

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So a healer that can't sprint (and has to be in a sometimes already-crowded melee range). There is an issue there.

I would love to see Dancer as a support/debuff healer, if possible Dancer becoming the first offical support class.

I am curious tho, if majority of this playerbase is DPS, wouldnt it make sense to expect the polls showing that DPS is the most voted role?

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I would love to see Dancer as a support/debuff healer, if possible Dancer becoming the first offical support class.

I am curious tho, if majority of this playerbase is DPS, wouldnt it make sense to expect the polls showing that DPS is the most voted role?

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i'm still curious on the reason behind a dancer able to heal a wound with a dance, since it will not be magic. for me even if the idea is nice, i can't find any reason with the lore for explain it. buff or debuff, yes totally, dance affect people seeing it and wardancer are not something unheard. but healer? no...

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i'm still curious on the reason behind a dancer able to heal a wound with a dance, since it will not be magic. for me even if the idea is nice, i can't find any reason with the lore for explain it. buff or debuff, yes totally, dance affect people seeing it and wardancer are not something unheard. but healer? no...

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Well there are non-DoM jobs that can heal, but it's usually self-heals however. Still, it's possible for a DoW to use magic, since PLD and DRK have magical abilities that require MP.
But yeah, I'm not really into Dancer being a healer either.

EDIT: I guess they could think of something like "A Dancer performing with graceful movements would radiate a magical aura that mends the spectators' mind and body" sort of way and that they dance as if it's for a ritual kind of thing, calling forth some deity's healing powers but that seems kinda cheesy to me..

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i'm still curious on the reason behind a dancer able to heal a wound with a dance, since it will not be magic. for me even if the idea is nice, i can't find any reason with the lore for explain it. buff or debuff, yes totally, dance affect people seeing it and wardancer are not something unheard. but healer? no...

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Monk can heal himself using second wind, warrior can selfheal using life leeching atacks and even gives one of these (a buff) as a crossclass ability (so in theory every class can heal trough attacking). While these are minor heals normaly they counter your heals have to be magic argument fully.

I think it would be good to have a DoW healer (be it dancer or not) as well as a DoM Tank simply because I imaging them feeling very different to play compared to their counterparts (even if in the end they are doing the same).

Personally I want a DoW healer because I like to heal from time to time but I just can't stand DoM Jobs in FF14, which is pretty weird as normally I'm playing the magicall classes/jobs/whatever much more than the Warriors/assasins/scouts/whatever but in this game I just can't stand playing them...

like said by someone before me, a healer that can't sprint will not work, a healer have to focus on the sole task of survive and healing then.... this dancer healer will be no different than the other healer.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

like said by someone before me, a healer that can't sprint will not work, a healer have to focus on the sole task of survive and healing then.... this dancer healer will be no different than the other healer.

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Why is sprint such a problem? Every single class has to evade aoes and move around during the battle all DoW need to do this without using sprint so why is this button so much more important for healers?

I could see DNC fulfilling one of two possible roles...dd/support like it did in XI or support like it did in FFT.