Why do you raid?

I am beginning to wonder why I do raids, or, why anyone does them. (This is kind of a rant but also serious question)

Before 3.4, I was not interested in raiding. Even in my FC, only a handful of people do them.
Only a couple of weeks before 3.4 did our other members attempt them. We cleared 1st and 2nd floors of savage Midas.

I also had some pressure from friends to get into raiding. So, with 3.4, I decided to try it.

[ RANT ]

Right from the beginning, I spent a lot of time gathering all the mats to make a complete set of 250 gear for my ninja and white mage, switching specializations to do so.
Spent a lot on V materia.
And started raiding seriously.
1st floor was easy and cleared quickly.
2nd floor was a little tougher, but went with the same group of all first timers and cleared it in 4 or 5 sets.

I wouldn't say it was "fun", and the rewards were a book and I got one new piece of equipment in the last 2 weeks.

Then came 3rd floor.
After many many many failed attempts, I still have not cleared it.

I have gone with many different groups, and one group I go with regularly. After reaching time limit a few times, I have become confident enough to join clear parties.

Yet, despite being a clear party, I keep seeing these things:
People can't dodge left and right sword.
Healers don't heal everyone before Whirlwind.
People ignore Lapis Lazuli order or green sphere order. (Despite macro)
People standing in the middle during final green orb phase.
And so many more.

Just yesterday I was in a clear party where we only cleared the lapis lazuli phase once.
Even though, I, as Ninja, was top on enmity list after the tanks.

[ /RANT ]

Today, we got the boss to 6%, which was a new record for me. But I just wondered "Even after we defeat the boss, someone gets some treasure and we all get a book page. For what?"

I wonder, why do we do raids? Why do we spend so much time and in-game currency to buy the best materia, best gear, best food to go fight for several hours? For a couple of pieces of gear? Even though gear with same IL can be obtained with Tomestones SO much more easily and without costing any money at all.

And, even if we do get "the best" gear, then what? What is the reward for having best-in-slot and putting out the most damage? Where is the incentive?

After many disappointing failures at clearing 3rd floor, I am losing motivation to raid. But I want my motivation back, having come this far.
But I don't know why I should do it.


So, why do YOU raid?

The challenge<3 and I have a static group so its pretty fun to play with them, when we get frustrated from wipes we start killing each other, it gets pretty amusing.

ur right the loot alone isn't incentive. i do it for the challange. if i don't find a challange in the game , then i will have no reason to work towards something. raid is the main challange in the game, the other challange to gain enuf gil to buy a house in limsa xD

I raid for fun and challenge. My personal RNG is to say it nicely shit. So the book system should make me happy but nah I actually preferred the coil system ^^
I like running content with friends and challenge myself on different classes. Without the fun it is not worth anything to me.

I raid...for HONOR! FOR GLORY! FOR KING AND COUNTRY! DEUS VULT!

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

Even though gear with same IL can be obtained with Tomestones SO much more easily and without costing any money at all.

And, even if we do get "the best" gear, then what? What is the reward for having best-in-slot and putting out the most damage? Where is the incentive?


So, why do YOU raid?

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What would you do with that tomestone gear? You do it because it is something to do. Otherwise what else is there but leveling. What is the point of leveling and powering up at all? This is a bigger question with many different answers. But I come from a time where the ONLY thing to do was raid or craft. So I have always viewed the road to raids as simply an arduous means to an end. I can't stand leveling, I abhor it but I do it to raid. Others love nothing but leveling.

There is also the issue in this game specifically that rewards do not match the difficulty of these raids, though that has been toned down this patch. A big issue is that raid rewards get outdated very quickly.

Then you have those raiders who admonish the other raiders for only raiding for treasure and not the challenge itself. I raid for a mix of both but if the reward was not there I would not raid at all, that's simply me.

I chose to stop raiding until they returned the difficulty to ARR raids which they have and I am having fun PUGing stuff while my old group reforms, but it will all be erased and reset come 4.0 and we all start over again.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

What would you do with that tomestone gear?

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This is a good point. I always thought I should get Tomestone gear so I can do the next dungeons when they are released.
But then I wonder, why do those dungeons?

Many people mentioned the challenge. I agree that the challenge is exciting and it's very wonderful when you clear the raid after many tries.

But now on the 3rd floor, after many groups and many failures, I'm not sure balancing time / reward is worth it. Perhaps I am better suited for a crafter after all.

I got into raiding mostly from the pressure from friends to join. Until then, I spent almost all my time crafting and gathering and doing dungeons for tomes to do more crafting. And getting achievements.

But by not raiding I do kind of feel like I am missing out on an important aspect of the game.

Challegue and fun, I will do it even if not gear drop from there.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

This is a good point. I always thought I should get Tomestone gear so I can do the next dungeons when they are released.
But then I wonder, why do those dungeons?

Many people mentioned the challenge. I agree that the challenge is exciting and it's very wonderful when you clear the raid after many tries.

But now on the 3rd floor, after many groups and many failures, I'm not sure balancing time / reward is worth it. Perhaps I am better suited for a crafter after all.

I got into raiding mostly from the pressure from friends to join. Until then, I spent almost all my time crafting and gathering and doing dungeons for tomes to do more crafting. And getting achievements.

But by not raiding I do kind of feel like I am missing out on an important aspect of the game.

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Raiding here is not as fleshed out as it should be either. I think you are right about balance, I just cleared A10S myself and i found it very fun, but I know 11 will be daunting and require a much more coordinated dance that I can definitely empathize with your exhaustion. If it isn't fun don't do it. Perhaps have fun with ex primals, I find them a lot of fun. There is also some rumors that there will be a 3 tier difficulty system in 4.0 which might help give some more balanced and fun raids.

Hmmm when I started the game I never thought I'd do much more than lone wolf it through everything and eventually do everything. Well about 5 months down the line I entered coil for the first time. The story hooked me. I wanted to see more. But I was also having fun, I was with friends(how that happened I still don't know but I've made quite a bunch of friends by then) and we had fun. I never thought of myself as anything more than a decent player so always felt like I was holding people back. But I always kept trying to improve. And that also became a part of my reason to raid. To challenge myself, to push myself to the best I can be.

To sum it up: I raid for friends, fun, story, challenge.

To get a sense of accomplishment. After finishing the raid, I always shout. It is the best moment of this game I think and another game rarely give it. And also playing with static members is fun. If you find good members for you, you would be fun.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

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Personally, I do not raid, but regardless of how many answers you get from people who do, it ultimately comes down to you and what you warrant as worth your time in doing. Only a very small part of the community clear savage content anyway, so you are honestly not alone in not wanting to do it if you choose not to. Some people are perfectly fine getting extreme clears and farming old content. More than likely when 4.1 is out next year, all the HW content will be unsync and you can just clear it then if you wanted certain things from it. So if crafting and gathering makes you happy then just do that. If you feel like there's a day that you want to attempt Savage content again, then do it, but remember, unless you are doing it because you want to, you won't feel like its worth it even if you clear it.

this is the recurring problem of every themepark game like FFXIV.

You raid for the challenge, to be able to say "been there, done that, and all I got was this lousy book page."

I haven't gotten to endgame here yet, but I've raided in every mmo I played, and I can tell you, no matter how good your crew is, you will wipe from time to time. Especially on first clears.
It's a learning experience and a challenge, that's the meat of it all, the loot is just icing on the pain cake.

I remember my old WoW guild from Vanilla days... First time we went into Molten Core (first raid for those who might not kno) we wiped on the first boss for 18 hours straight before we gave up for the day. But when we finally got him and moved on... that's why I raid.

Raiding is only fun if your on voice chat with friends who can laugh about the stupid mistakes we as humans always do.

" bye bye me ninja, it was nice knowing you" after he gets zombied
Ninja " life wasn't worth living ANYWAYS!"

To complete the challenge, and gain a reputation by having high fflogs.

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Originally Posted by Bdyer

Raiding is only fun if your on voice chat with friends who can laugh about the stupid mistakes we as humans always do.

" bye bye me ninja, it was nice knowing you" after he gets zombied
Ninja " life wasn't worth living ANYWAYS!"

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As a healer my standards are "I got this!" and "No problem, totally no problem..." to: coheal already reset I am alone with like 3 people at like 10% HP and heavy AoE damage incoming :P
At one point our maintank went "SPOILER: you won't have it!" I still laugh about that one ^^

I don't raid, but one of my friends and FC mates raids, and when I asked him why he does Savage content, he said he does it for the personal challenge. He said he likes pushing each and every job to it's absolute limit (which he does in and out of Savage), and that it feels satisfying for him when he clears savage content. He also raids with a lot of close friends, and he comes back and tells the FC all their jokes and the fun they had during raid that day.

I have considered getting into raiding, only because I want to challenge myself, and I would love to have something challenging to do with a group of friends who would enjoy said challenge. I don't really want to raid just to have "the best gear" or for bragging rights.

I raid to get gear.

A challenge and some time to spend with friends.

I've been away from raiding for a while now (have not done anything this tier), so I'm sorry if my answer is weird in any way or does not fit the current raid content:

I raided, because concentrating on something really hard is a lot of fun :)
Because I can challenge myself, and because every bit of progress feels rewarding,
and it's a rush of endorphines when everything goes right for once and everyone is in sync and it results in a clear ;)
Because I personally really enjoy having lots of mechanics to deal with, especially mechanics that can't just be ignored, and very few of the non-raid contents offer that.

I can honestly say I never once raided for the loot.
I don't like showing off, so trophy mounts/furniture/etc. are lost on me,
and the gear is a means to an end - making raiding easier, not..just "having" it.

All I want to do is all the content, so I briefly raided in 2.x. I was in my FC's first clear group for T5, but quit when T6 progression went from being a fun thing to a job. I am very thankful for the Alexander difficulty split, because now I can do the content and never even look at savage.

All that is to say, if you find it enjoyable, raid, and if you don't, don't. Don't feel obligated to do anything because someone else is pressuring you.

Because trying to beat video game bosses with friends has always been fun, as far back as sitting around the Playstation and watching someone fight Sephiroth or Ozma. Raiding is an extension of that where the whole group gets their say on the strategy. It's also rewarding to figure out new job tricks, new fight tricks, etc.

You have to consider your time investments as a raider, though. Grinding for crafted gear ASAP and Grade Vs are not necessary. If you're pressed for time, tomestone or weekly gear and IVs are enough. You don't need HQ Priestly Omelettes, you can still use Baked Pipira Pira or even Grilled Sweetfish.

Hardcore expectations for someone who doesn't have the desires of a hardcore player will unsurprisingly suck.

For the fun and challenge of beating the hardest bosses in the game.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

But now on the 3rd floor, after many groups and many failures, I'm not sure balancing time / reward is worth it. Perhaps I am better suited for a crafter after all.

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Just to note, savage is supposed to be the hardest content in the game. The previous savage raids honestly weren't as easy on release as the new set of alex is, the 9th and 10th floor were really oddly a piece of cake.

Generally unless you're in a hardcore group who raids many days/hours per week or just /very/ skilled player, usually it takes most groups a couple weeks to clear a floor if doing it casually. We got AS9 on week one, AS10 on week 2, and we're on AS11 now and only just getting him to 30% after about two days of two hours each.

I will say most the time even clear parties aren't coordinated enough to do the harder content easily, when it comes to savage content I feel like you're lucky if you can get a clear party to finish the harder ones.

Because I like to play with my static. During coil days: also to see the story. The gear you get is merely higher numbers so you can clear even if people make mistakes, imo.

Thank you everyone for your answers.

It seems almost everyone says they raid for the challenge. I can understand why.
When I am focused and the boss has 10% or less HP, I can really excited and begin thinking "We can do this!"

But I think my satisfaction from challenge might be somewhere else.
I find a great challenge in gathering all of my own mats and switching specializations to craft all my own gear. And I love completing my achievement logs.

Last night I challenged 3rd floor again. Our group is becoming more stable. We reached final phase many times.
Our new record is 6% remaining HP.

But to be honest, using HQ food and HQ Supramax potions during the fight (especially when we wipe before even reaching final phase), it very disappointing.

At the end, one of members told everyone else to raise the IL before tomorrow. I didn't check the other's IL, but mine is already 254. There is nothing I can do to raise it anymore until next week's scripture reset. I imagine the others must be in a similar situation.

It's a little vexxing to hear it.

I will probably limit myself to just 1 raid set a day, if that.

Raiding gives me a reason to continue to log in and strive for something. I usually beat all of Normal modes and dungeons within a few days of patch. If I don't raid then I don't really have a reason to farm those things for gear so I raid to keep myself engaged in the game beyond the first week of new patches.

I stopped reading when you said you were going with multiple different groups.

Raiding is a social experience best enjoyed with friends. Find a static of people you enjoy playing with, play with them, and your enjoyment will increase ten fold.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I stopped reading when you said you were going with multiple different groups.

Raiding is a social experience best enjoyed with friends. Find a static of people you enjoy playing with, play with them, and your enjoyment will increase ten fold.

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I want to believe that.

But I have heard many terrible stories of statics falling apart due to fighting between members.

Someone suggested making a static of people in our FC, but people who were used to raids warned us against doing that. They told us statics can turn even the closest friends into enemies.

Even now, some of my friends say their statics are falling apart because of fighting.

While I have been with several different groups, there is a group I go with every night at 9:00. But we are not officially a static.
The benefit is we all know the same pattern and know what each player will do next.

But most of the members in the group are in their own FC, so I feel kind of left out a lot. I don't really understand their inside jokes and things like that.

The Glams, The Challenge, and the fun. o/

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

So, why do YOU raid?

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because i enjoy learning tough things with friends! couldn't even imagine trying to pub them though

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I want to believe that.

But I have heard many terrible stories of statics falling apart due to fighting between members.

Someone suggested making a static of people in our FC, but people who were used to raids warned us against doing that. They told us statics can turn even the closest friends into enemies.

Even now, some of my friends say their statics are falling apart because of fighting.

While I have been with several different groups, there is a group I go with every night at 9:00. But we are not officially a static.
The benefit is we all know the same pattern and know what each player will do next.

But most of the members in the group are in their own FC, so I feel kind of left out a lot. I don't really understand their inside jokes and things like that.

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IMO, it's a risk that's worth taking if you can go in with clear expectations (when to replace members, how hardcore to be, etc) and members who have similar attitudes and skill levels.

Groups of friends fall apart over everything from tabletop gaming drama to relationship drama. No reason to avoid fun activities together.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

Someone suggested making a static of people in our FC, but people who were used to raids warned us against doing that. They told us statics can turn even the closest friends into enemies.

Even now, some of my friends say their statics are falling apart because of fighting.
But most of the members in the group are in their own FC, so I feel kind of left out a lot. I don't really understand their inside jokes and things like that.

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Really it depends on the people. If friends fall apart over some difficulties in raiding they weren't very good friends to begin with. We aren't exactly top tier raiders, we make a lot of mistakes, take a bit to clear, but at the end of the day we all have fun and enjoy the content together. You just gotta make sure you form a static of easy going people, you won't find many "Friends" griefing each other unless they're coming in thinking everyone is gonna be elite players and knock content out of the park

I raid for the challenge, fun and BiS gear (and also for the looks to glamour). Tho I only raid with my static/friends and not with random people.