Changes to additional skills.

"New Level Cap: 70 (for all classes)
More actions for each job to go with new cap
Revamped battle system to go with new actions
Additional Skill System to be overhauled, with skills shared by roles instead of jobs, and can choose from shared role ability options"
- https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_stormblood/

What do you think this means? Jobs are going to share cross classes based on their role now? Would this mean tanks are going to be able to cross from all other tanks, healers from all other healers and dps from all other dps?

So PLD and WAR are gonna lose conjurer and pugilist and get some DRK abilities?

All healers are losing swiftcast?

All dps are gonna have access to internal release, raging strikes and blood for blood?

As if we dont have have enough skills already :/

I think they might have a riot on their hands if healers lose swiftcast.

I can't imagine then taking away healer swiftcast without lowering the cooldown of Raise.

I think certain moves will be tied to roles instead of classes/jobs. Example provoke will be a role skill instead of a gladiator skill.

They also said they are combining and getting rid of the most unused skills.

I am looking forward to see what gets changed

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I can't imagine then taking away healer swiftcast without lowering the cooldown of Raise.

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I mean I guess we might get access to lightspeed from AST but it's still no swiftcast.

Losing swiftcast = WHM and SCH having access to Lightspeed. It's not the same thing, but 4 seconds Raise it's better than 8 regardless.

I doubt they'll get rid of Swiftcast for healers...

Maybe we'll finally see Invigorate be available to tanks too. And tanks being able to use Keen Flurry.

"Additional Skill System to be overhauled, with skills shared by roles instead of jobs, and can choose from shared role ability options"

Chances are there will be new skills within that pool to choose from. So stuff like provoke, swift cast, etc, potentially renamed if they were from other roles. One can only hope that they do away with classes entirely and just go straight jobs for everything (yes smns and schs, you should level seperately!).

Sounds interesting. I wonder how the old skills will change. Poisons will likely change.

Odds are we'll see things like Provoke, Protect, Stoneskin, and Quelling Strikes, removed from their respective classes, and instead be made into Role Skills. The classes that had those skills will either lose them entirely, or get replaced by something else (likely the former). Other skills, like Surecast, are probably going to be removed entirely since I cannot think of many times I've used it on any DoM class, let alone the parent THM/BLM. Given that they mentioned pruning abilities, I'd be willing to bet that the skills I mentioned first will be outright moved to Role Skills and out of their respective class' skill list, and the rest of the skills get their level-requirements shifted around a bit. That said, I'd also imagine a few brand new skills will be added to the Role Skills list such as weak defensive cooldowns, like Foresight, being made into Role Skills, or a skill for casters that lets them cast while moving at a walking speed (which would be awesome, and I fully acknowledge that it will most likely not happen...sadly).

Well you are just thinking about roles in the sense of Tank/Support/DPS, but there are also subroles you could say, Melee/Range/Magic, so it's very possible that abilities could fit into two categories and each job will fall into two roles. Likea NIN would be DPS/Melee able to grab abilities from the DPS and melee roles while a healer is Support/Magic, BLM DPS/Magic.

So the Support role gives access to protect/raise while the magic side gives access to Swiftcast/Surecast. Though this does mean that healers could potentially lose access to Ice II if it's IDed as a DPS/Magic spell and not just magic.

As a PLD I'll be sad to see stoneskin go and I guess protect. No tears will be shed for cure and raise though. But what could we possibly take from DRK? Spinning slash, scourge, blood weapon and reprisal? I guess reprisal would be nice and blood weapon could be useful. But DRKs will cry if they have to share those.

Personally, I think this is a great move since it allows them to add more shared skills (hopefully passives at some point) when they add new classes and also expand the number of shared slots we get. Because my drg needs goad for more utility (unless they revamp mnk from the ground up, I aint playing it, regardless of how hard they try to push it in the movies etc).

I have a few ideas on what it might mean, like not locking classes to jobs but to roles, but miss details so I could be totally wrong

I have a theory that they will gradually move towards a system where classes will be meaningless and everything will be tied to jobs.

I don't doubt at some point they'll get rid of all basic classes, move everything to jobs and make everybody start as a freelancer class w/basic skills you'll stay as until lvl 15.

I read it as if your a dps you can either cross class certain abailities from any dps class, or that all dps classes will be given a menu of skills to be from such as invigorate, b4b etc without having to raise other class's up

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

As a PLD I'll be sad to see stoneskin go and I guess protect. No tears will be shed for cure and raise though. But what could we possibly take from DRK? Spinning slash, scourge, blood weapon and reprisal? I guess reprisal would be nice and blood weapon could be useful. But DRKs will cry if they have to share those.

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I doubt that Paladin will lose Stoneskin and Protect.

What I do expect is that "must have" tank abilities such as Provoke and Convalescence will be native to a new Tank additional ability pool and that all Tank jobs will now have native access to rather than being Gladiator skills that Warriors and Dark Knights must borrow.

Invigorate would be an example of an ability native to the DpS pool.

Cleric Stance and Protect would be an abilities native to the Healer pool.

This wouldn't mean that any job loses access to their cross-class skills only that certain skills would come automatically with role and others would still be borrowed from other jobs/classes.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They also said they are combining and getting rid of the most unused skills.

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Thanks gods. Surecast is literally the one ability that I never use. If it can be changed to be useful, I might consider putting it back on my hotbar.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

As a PLD I'll be sad to see stoneskin go and I guess protect. No tears will be shed for cure and raise though. But what could we possibly take from DRK? Spinning slash, scourge, blood weapon and reprisal? I guess reprisal would be nice and blood weapon could be useful. But DRKs will cry if they have to share those.

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you're not going to get other job-specific skills....that would ruin the entire point of jobs, and their skills being tied to job-stones.
honestly i don't see how it's much different from what we already have; except for the new jobs, all pre-HW phys DPS jobs, have invigorate. and all caster/healers have swiftcast, etc.
but since they are overhauling the skills anyway, we'll see.
hopefully it means that any job can pick any role :) that would fit RDM anyway, i guess.

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Originally Posted by Bdyer

I read it as if your a dps you can either cross class certain abailities from any dps class, or that all dps classes will be given a menu of skills to be from such as invigorate, b4b etc without having to raise other class's up

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Ye I think so too, would have been odd making all melee and TP based job a need to crossclass withLNCR for invigorate or all tanks provoke from PLD, I still think you'll have to level the jobs first to unlock them though, but I might be wrong

Looks like they're nuking the whole thing, from scratch. I think talking about the current system is pretty pointless.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

Looks like they're nuking the whole thing, from scratch. I think talking about the current system is pretty pointless.

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Discussion is never pointless as long as we are being cordial and good natured about it :<

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

Looks like they're nuking the whole thing, from scratch. I think talking about the current system is pretty pointless.

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Like I said earlier. Nuke all the classes, make everything a job and have players start as freelancers. Much better and VERY final fantas-y.

If they go ahead and nuke the classes, they're probably gonna have to redo both SMN and SCH extensively because as far as I know they don't like SMN having stuff like Resurrection, Physick and Eye for an Eye... Or SCH having all the SMN DoTs and such... So there'd be abilities gone from both that they'd have to replace... And then there's dealing with the fact that they're linked to the same classes level so if they get split into separate Jobs with no base class, how to do they deal with the jobs levels?

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

If they go ahead and nuke the classes, they're probably gonna have to redo both SMN and SCH extensively because as far as I know they don't like SMN having stuff like Resurrection, Physick and Eye for an Eye... Or SCH having all the SMN DoTs and such... So there'd be abilities gone from both that they'd have to replace... And then there's dealing with the fact that they're linked to the same classes level so if they get split into separate Jobs with no base class, how to do they deal with the jobs levels?

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I feel like people would almost prefer SCH get the ACN stuff while SMN gets the overhaul, and I would imagine anyone who has leveled them would get grandfathered in for levels.

Am I sad for this to be the most exciting/interesting part of fan fest to me so far?

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

Am I sad for this to be the most exciting/interesting part of fan fest to me so far?

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No, while I'm wary of the changes I'm also excited for it. I was saying to my friend the other day that the one thing I wish they didn't do away with from 1.0 was the way additional skills were handled because it allowed a lot more freedom and variety while the 2.0 system was restrictive to the point of being almost pointless.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

All that cool stuff.

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I hope its sort of various sets of skills. Like say job/class skills, followed by role skills, and then sub-role. So like PLD/GLD skills, then shared tank skills like Provoke or Retaliation, then sub-role skills like a PLD getting access to select role skills in this case healer role skills that come from WHM/CNJ like Protect.

It would be interesting however they approach it. I love this game more then any game i really do, but change is the spice of life and the game is starting to taste a little bland to me.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Like I said earlier. Nuke all the classes, make everything a job and have players start as freelancers. Much better and VERY final fantas-y.

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I figure they won't entirely nuke the classes if only to avoid having to rework quest stories. Instead they remove the second class requirement from picking up the job, and rather than being rewarded the "Soul of the X" as an item it's just converted to a trait.
The only thing this wouldn't go perfectly on would be Summoner/Scholar, but they could simply have one of them become an entirely independent job like Dark Knight, Astrologian, and Machinist anyway.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

Looks like they're nuking the whole thing, from scratch. I think talking about the current system is pretty pointless.

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Looks like you've completely misunderstood what they are doing.

I'd imagine it's a way of (1) adding more shared skills and (2) providing role labels for them. Hopefully in the process we'll see broader and more meaningful cross-class choices, such as more powerful defensive options for non-tanks (better than the RNG-dependent and mostly negligible Keen Flurry and Featherfoot).

But, given that very limited description, it could also refer instead to role-based shared skill categories. For instance, let's say there are now 3 or more forms of "Provoke" ("Challenge" (MRD) and "Command" (DRK) join the mix). At level 20, each tank gains a "tank role" ability slot, into which they can insert any of those, without affecting the larger cross-class pool. While this might seem a loss for a DRK or WAR when that tool isn't necessary, or an unnecessary buff to tank toolkits overall, at least that would balance out GLD having to lose an ability just to support the Taunt skill requirements for all three. Each tank learns and makes shareable their particular form of the Taunt skill at the same level, 20.

You might also then see Raging Strikes and Blood for Blood made available to all classes and revised to provide less generic gameplay effects (exchanging a basic "+x% damage over y duration" for something a bit more varied and manipulable in new ways). The same might even be doable with Hawk Eye (making it no longer dependent on Dexterity stat) and Keen Flurry (returning it to an offensive CD-reducer).

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

If they go ahead and nuke the classes, they're probably gonna have to redo both SMN and SCH extensively because as far as I know they don't like SMN having stuff like Resurrection, Physick and Eye for an Eye... Or SCH having all the SMN DoTs and such... So there'd be abilities gone from both that they'd have to replace... And then there's dealing with the fact that they're linked to the same classes level so if they get split into separate Jobs with no base class, how to do they deal with the jobs levels?

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I always thought that was part of the attraction that they wanted for the SMN. Prior to the Int/Mind split, they're typically your most efficient healer, seeing as they're only sacrificing 80 potency per GCD to put out those 400-potency Physics. In raids, they're sought after for the safety provided by that extra rez. That was how they stayed viable against BLM in single-target originally, iirc.

The SMN/SCH issue is one that makes me hope that job crystals were able to manipulate source class abilities, for instance removing Physic from the main skill pool and allowing an extra shared slot in its place, or passively causing it to scale based on Intelligence instead and hit 50% harder when used on one's pet. (That still wouldn't be as useful as SMN healing when we still had as much Mind as Intelligence, as it's now limited to the pet, but at least it'd be worth a place on your bars sometimes, for when Sustain's HoT isn't enough.)

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I feel like people would almost prefer SCH get the ACN stuff while SMN gets the overhaul, and I would imagine anyone who has leveled them would get grandfathered in for levels.

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Personally, I just want to see what new undermechanics we might be getting with 4.0, and then redo Arcanist from there, giving it a higher skill floor and ceiling and making it more than just a DoT-class, preferably one who can manipulate spell effects cast by enemies and allies. The Summoner and Scholar would then build from there, revamping as necessary to make the most out of that original skill-set, at cost of some of its initial functionality, in naturally divergent ways. For example, the Arcanist remains viable situationally even at level cap, as a tactical caster capable of taking the damage from a flare cast on the boss as it was going invulnerable, delaying it, and dropping it at full damage on a fresh add instead, extending other debuffs, etc., while the Summoner instead uses that transferal skill set to summon empowered manifestations of aether - egis - who he can further empower, channel the powers of, or release or channel powerful strikes from through his rotational and aether-spending choices, and the Scholar instead uses those tools to invest aetherial shielding onto his allies (Bane can now detonate a Galvanize effect to damage enemies in Cleric Stance, free of cost and only when there are enemies surrounding the allied target, while it instead changes to Boon when Cleric Stance is off, acting as a Deployment Tactics without the E4E component and with an AF cost).

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

No, while I'm wary of the changes I'm also excited for it. I was saying to my friend the other day that the one thing I wish they didn't do away with from 1.0 was the way additional skills were handled because it allowed a lot more freedom and variety while the 2.0 system was restrictive to the point of being almost pointless.

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Same here. If they had just invested types and undermechanics into the original 1.0 cross-class skill system, it could have had a tremendous amount of possibilities. Heck, I still think Physical Level was a good idea, had they just improved the contribution in some way or another early on for class non-primary stats (Int on a PGL being viable for Elemental Fists burst, Piety for Monk support, etc.) Sadly, oversights in the Fatigue system and generally low exp scaling killed most of those earlier systems as a package deal, even though the issues were actually quite separate.

but it gets very boring when you're only pressing 3 different buttons 24/7 to do decend job, and even now i think having only 1 buff to manage is kinda boring and would want to have to manage mp and some stacks similar to abandon along side with the blood of the dragon