Hard mode dungeons/Primals - are they needed for story progression???

Hey guys! I'm stumped. I've done the Ultima Weapon quest yesterday and I've been wondering what do I do now? Do I need to do the HM dungeons/primals in order to progress in the story or just keep on doing the main scenario quests? I want to go to Heavensward when I finish A Realm Reborn. Long post short. Are HM dungeons/primals mandatory or optional for story progression??

Thanks!

Hard modes are, extreme modes aren't. :) You can queue for hard modes through duty finder or gather a party finder and do them unsynced with level 60 players.

Thanks Taika! Does this apply only to the primals or dungeons too?

I don't remember any hard mode dungeon being part of the main scenario, but some level 50 and level 60 dungeons are. There aren't really any differences between standard level 50 and 60 dungeons and "hard" dungeons, other than the "hard" dungeons are higher level versions of the lower level ones with the same name.

Basically, just follow the main scenario quest and it will guide you to all the hard mode primals and dungeons you're required to do. And then you can later unlock the rest of the dungeons and do the extreme primals if you wish.

'Hard' is just a term used for a different version of the dungeon in the game - new area, bosses, mechanics etc. But not necessarily harder - in fact it's just as easy as leveling dungeons. Extreme/Savage is where things become optional and harder.

Several of the Hard Mode dungeons are also required for the Level 50 Duty Roulette. I'm not sure off hand whether the ones it requires are the same ones the MSQ requires, but it's worth unlocking. There's a page here listing which dungeons the roulette requires:
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...ette:_Level_50

Already did Ifrit with my FC :)

If your main goal is to get to Ishgard and the HW content, you can safely ignore everything that isnt in the MSQ. The dungeons(2 if i recall) and trials(like 6 of them) you need to run are only unlocked that way. You may also want to open up hard mode ifrit titan and garuda before you advance too far, because at a certain point in the story you switch to a new base of operations and some people report not being able to get the old quest for them after that point. But the rest of the content is optional and you can always go back and clear what you want to later on. Happy hunting!

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Originally Posted by Pence

'Hard' is just a term used for a different version of the dungeon in the game - new area, bosses, mechanics etc. But not necessarily harder - in fact it's just as easy as leveling dungeons. Extreme/Savage is where things become optional and harder.

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Um, 'hard' Ifrit, Titan and Garuda are a LOT HARDER than the 'story' mode versions for players new to them, I think you've been doing them so long you've forgotten the large up-tick in fight difficulty.

It's sad that SE gave in to those demanding 'hard' content even in the 'casual' part of the game and put 'hard' mode trials into the critical path through the main story, the later primals' fights should also have been 'story' mode for those only interested in progressing the story and now of course unlocking the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Darcorn

Are HM dungeons/primals mandatory or optional for story progression??

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I'm following this page to know what is and isn't needed, I hope it's accurate:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...cenario_Quests

So I've just come across the first problem with that page, this quest:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hest_of_the_Best

I've done the pre-req but am not getting this quest from that NPC, I fear the progression isn't as linear or complete as the page I linked to implies. :(

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

So I've just come across the first problem with that page, this quest:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hest_of_the_Best

I've done the pre-req but am not getting this quest from that NPC, I fear the progression isn't as linear or complete as the page I linked to implies. :(

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That page is slightly old. Guild hests are no longer required for the MSQ. They have been replaced by other quests. (I don't remember right now what they have been replaced with though.)

Hint: Don't pay TOO much attention to what guides say - each time you finish one part of the MSQ, the following one(s) can be picked up from a nearby NPC, so just look around.

GE tends to be much better updated. This is the version of that quest there: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Hest_of_the_Best which directs you to the new version here http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/We...Morbol_Country

A list of all main scenario quests required can be found here: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Main_Scenario_Quest . You'll need to use the tab at the top to switch to ARR until you reach Heavensward however, and it's broken up based on what patch it belongs to.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

So I've just come across the first problem with that page, this quest:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Hest_of_the_Best

I've done the pre-req but am not getting this quest from that NPC, I fear the progression isn't as linear or complete as the page I linked to implies. :(

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Gamerescape identifies Hest of the Best as obsolete and replaced by Welcome to Morbol Country. I believe their listings are still up to date.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Gamerescape identifies Hest of the Best as obsolete and replaced by Welcome to Morbol Country. I believe their listings are still up to date.

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They are now. When I was researching my previous post, I did see a bug that messed with it (Basically, the new versions are technically patch 3.1 quests, but that page pulls all 2.1 MSQs for the list). I fixed it though. That's the nice part of a wiki, can always fix what's wrong ;)

Just discovered another major omission from that page .. you HAVE to do the ancient 'hard modes' Ifrit, Titan and Garuda because Good Intentions is gated by them.

That totally sucks, yet more obsolete content needed simply to be able to actually get to the 'new' content of 2 years ago. Had I known they were needed as well I'd likely not have started, this is a horrible, horrible slog for newer players simply to even begin to catch up with two-year-old content. Yet more gate unlocking needed before one can move forward again. :(

I find Titan Hard Mode terrifying, I failed in 9 times 3 years ago which is why I gave up playing back then since it gated relics which were the basis for all content from then on and I found the fight impossible to survive. These never were part of the MS, they were reli/gear grind vehicles, why do they gate the MSQ now? :(

If you can't survive Titan hard mode, you're gonna have a bad time with later main scenario quests. I believe they added them because there IS some lore attached to them, and later content may assume your character has done them already.

My problem with Titan is that I can't remember the attack rotation patterns, just too much to try to follow when playing a healer, I thus end up keeping others alive and mange to die myself. :(

As for 'lore', let's face it, the MS in the original release was simply series of Primal-killing episodes interspersed with occasional ARR content following on the story from V1, the 'hard modes' were only added when relic and other end-game content was needed, IMO it has no place in the gating of the expansion, hard core content shouldn't gate story, it didn't originally it had no need to later on.

I had only 3 group fights left in the MSQ before discovering these were needed (Crysalis, Keeper of the Lake and Steps of Faith to go), I've not had any real problems so far, though I can see those aren't exactly walks in the park, but Titan is my nemesis. :(

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

I find Titan Hard Mode terrifying, I failed in 9 times 3 years ago which is why I gave up playing back then since it gated relics which were the basis for all content from then on and I found the fight impossible to survive. These never were part of the MS, they were reli/gear grind vehicles, why do they gate the MSQ now? :(

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If your main is on Phoenix, you can ask me to run Titan with you when you see me online. I'll heal it with you and be your backup so you won't have to worry. :)

The Hard Mode versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan aren't exactly hard core content. They are harder than Normal Mode, yes, but not all that much harder. The Extreme versions of the primals, now they are a fair bit harder and not for the faint of heart - but luckily nothing is gated behind those that I know of.
As an aside HM Ifrit, Garuda, Titan are also needed for unlocking Coils of Bahamut.

Well I have zero interest in raiding so unlocking content like that isn't a concern for me .. however, shocked as I am to say it I managed to progress and unlock Steps of Faith, Titan Hard proved 'interesting' and I died with him at around 3% while healing the tank, so tenth time lucky I guess, though I will never, ever do it an 11th time!

I presume that everyone is so over-geared now in comparison when I as trying to progress my WHM at the end of 2013 that mistakes aren't as fatal as they were.

I constantly see (and often help with) people on the PF looking to do hard mode primals and some dungeons unsynced for the MSQ. Makes it way faster and since you get the new player bonus even for unsynced, it's win win for everybody.
As of the last patch you actually have to do Titan hard mode YET AGAIN by the way lol

Having to do the first 3 hard mode primals is more due to the quest giver being varying degrees of unavalable later in the MSQ. That would just be the lump sum as to why they need to be done. I'd say divide the quest so the quest giver's part is over with allowing you to continue the MSQ and have each GC guy you talk to give out the rest of the respective HM primal's unlock questline.

I guess what I am having an issue with is the fact that the two people closest to me in RL, and who now play this game with me twice a week, are casual players who only ever played things like EverQuest and will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

If a game developer like Square Enix is going to take a game like this and pass it off as being playable by casual gamers, then Square Enix should also make available much easier, "Story Mode" versions of those primals so that those casual players with lesser ability, can still complete them for the MSQ.

All SE has to do, is make them available, then limit Exp/Gil/Item rewards for them, as well as not counting toward any achievement. I wouldn't mind running something like that with them after doing my own at intended difficulty, because I'd like to see them get thru it at least. Plus, repeated run thru's could help prep them for the next harder level of difficulty.

In my opinion, once you get to end of ARR, its almost as if SE was saying "Sorry buddy, everything is hard mode now, but we're fine with having taken your money you spent on this game, expansions and subscription fees when we made you think this was actually intended for casual players...chump lol". At least that is what it feels like to me. I can handle the hard modes, right now they certainly cannot.

I'm not suggesting eliminating hard or extreme modes, simply offer the additional option for "story mode".

This thread is from 2016, but...

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Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

I'm not suggesting eliminating hard or extreme modes, simply offer the additional option for "story mode".

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Beyond Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda HM, “HM” is in name only. The fights are the “story modes”, and they aren’t exactly hard. Especially at this point 2 expansions later.

In addition to what Hyomin said above, the game already gives you the option of engaging the "easy mode" on non-current trials via the undersized party option.
Just run the trial with them unsynced where you can control the pace the fight is going or grab a full party from the Party Finder and steamroll through them.

And that's not taking into account the powercreep that trivializes most ARR content even when synced.

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Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

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"Hard Mode" is a bit of misnomer. What it actually means in this game is that it's a trial or dungeon that you return to again at a higher level than when you first went there.

So the so-called "hard mode" of the Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda fights is essentially just a way of distinguishing their level 50 versions from their initial level 20, 34, and 44 versions. The only thing harder about them is being at a higher level. The increase in mechanics is in line with other increases as you go up in levels, like the fact that level 34 Titan has more mechanics than level 20 Ifrit, and level 44 Garuda has more than either of them. Their "hard mode" versions are simply the level 50 point in that same progression.

The same goes for an assortment of optional "hard mode" dungeons that open up then as well, ones that are set in the same locations as lower level dungeon runs, but re-worked to a level 50 version. And then there's a few like that in the expansions as well. We refer to the first, lower level version as "story mode" and the higher level return as "hard mode", but they're essentially the same difficulty relative to their level.

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Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

I guess what I am having an issue with is the fact that the two people closest to me in RL, and who now play this game with me twice a week, are casual players who only ever played things like EverQuest and will soon have to face hard modes like titan, ifrit, etc, despite the game passing itself off as a somewhat casual one during the trial period.

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The 8 man re-fights of ifrit garuda and titan arent anything to be scared of. And thats all they are, is full party re-fights. They didnt magically get "hard" just because youre in a larger team. If anything, the penalty for dying is less then in the 4-man versions. Unless both your friends play healers and insist on running together, they could theoretically afk at the start of all three fights(contributing nothing at all and likely wasting some healer resources), and be done with them in less then 3 minutes each. Or they could, you know, just play the game. Ifrit still does the same mechanics they learned at level 20(nails, eruption, charge), just a few of them happen more times in a row and maybe they hit a little harder. If youve made it to 50 actively playing and understand the basics of your class you wont see these as any sort of challenge. And one more thing that bothers me...

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Originally Posted by OldeWolfe

... so that those casual players with lesser ability, can still complete them for the MSQ.

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A casual player has less TIME to play, not less ability. People with less ability are just unskilled. Someone can be casual and skilled, or hardcore and unskilled. The two descriptors are measuring different things and are therefore unrelated.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

A casual player has less TIME to play, not less ability. People with less ability are just unskilled. Someone can be casual and skilled, or hardcore and unskilled. The two descriptors are measuring different things and are therefore unrelated.

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Different people use the term to mean either of those things. I don't think there's a consensus on which is the correct usage.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

A casual player has less TIME to play, not less ability.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Different people use the term to mean either of those things. I don't think there's a consensus on which is the correct usage.

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There seems to be several meanings used by different people.

By one measure, people who rush to endgame to focus on the latest raid are hardcore and people who like to take their time and explore are casual players.

By another, people who spend hours every day playing are hardcore and those who play more sporadically are casual.

By another (the skill one that OldeWolfe seemed to be alluding to) hard core players are the ones who focus on completely optimizing every action, whereas casual players just want to learn their skills enough to complete the content they're trying to get through. (This doesn't perfectly correlate to who's skilled or not, but does reflect who cares more about skill.)

I even have one friend who considers me a hardcore player just because I stick with a game for years (this one since ARR was released more than five and a half years ago, and LOTRO for more than six years before that). By this measure, the casual players are the ones who will play for a few months and then lose interest and move on to something else.

All these meanings are independent of each other. A person can be hardcore or casual on any one of them and the opposite for the others.