I'm the worst player in PvP

I don't know what class will even work. Thing is, I haven't even touched the thing because I've always thought it was toxic on the inside. But to be honest, I don't know shit at all but I do use PvP Skills. What do I even do?

Use dueling to test out your pvp abilities against friends before hopping in. If you want a place where you can have fun and you won't get toxic behavior, play strictly 8v8 Feast. These usually have the best chance of popping around Primetime and is probably what you're gonna have the best luck gettign to pop since the recent patch just came out. Definitely stay away from 4v4 solo queue until you familiarize yourself with the pvp abilities and have a basic understanding of what you are supposed to do in every game.
PS: Not all players are toxic, if you encounter one the only thing you can do is ignore them and move on.

Try anything but healer first. Healing in PvP is way harder than healing in endgame Savage raids.

Bard and Machinist are good for newcomers. All they have to do is hiding behind their friends and shoot. Then bind people that run away from their team.

Just jump in. There has never been a better time to get involved in PvP than right now. 3.4 content has killed Ranked solo-queue Feast, for the moment, so the only thing queuing is 8v8 casual. No one takes that seriously, so you can try out whatever job you want and not feel pressured by details. The dueling deck has been pretty active, so you can test out your skills in a 1v1 setting. If you can find a vet PvP'er, they can tech you what's up. Just keep in mind that the dueling deck isn't lvl sync'd and not all the kinks have been worked out, so actual PvP instances will have different dmg scaling and a slightly different feel to it.

As for starting out, here's a beginner's checklist to get you started:

• Pick a role, then a Job
  
  First, try to decide what role you want to fill in PvP. Tanks are the support role of the party in PvP. Dps are the killers, and Healers keep everyone alive.
  
  Pretty much every job is viable, but they all play very differently. Within the support role, for example, Plds excel at crowd control and defensive buffs; whereas, Wars excel mostly at offensive buffs and pressure plays. Likewise, each specific Dps sports its own ideal burst rotation (typically some variation of an opener that blows all of it's offence in one shot), though some Dps (such as Blm's) also have party utilities such as sleep. The more you learn about what your chosen job can do and how it's useful to the party, the bigger an asset you'll be in an actual match. Don't be afraid to experiment, either. Nothing is permanent.
  
  Further, don't fret too much if you get overwhelmed. Unlike PvE, PvP requires you to be adaptable and think on the fly. The pace of the combat is MUCH faster, so it takes a lot of experience to get comfortable with even one job. As a result, even seasoned PvP'ers aren't perfect and often make mistakes, especially if they're trying something new. Be patient with yourself and keep a tough skin. You have a lot to learn, and experience will be your best teacher.
  
  
  
• Learn your PvP tabs
  
  Once you've come to a decision on which job you'd like to take into PvP, it then boils down to prep work. Your first order of business is to check out what your job can do. Go into the character tab and select PvP, then check out your PvP actions. Read them, and get to know them as well as their future upgrades. As you are totally new, you won't be able to upgrade any of them just yet, but once you rank up you'll get AP points and be able to get some upgrades. There's no specific order to how you do your upgrades, either, so you can plan ahead for things you want right off the bat.
  
  
• Set up a Hotbar
  
  Next you'll want to set up a PvP hotbar. Go into your actions, select PvP, and start customizing your own loud out. How you want to do that is up to you. I play on console, so I have an entire hotbar dedicated just to PvP actions which I've trained my fingers to flip to whenever I need one. That said, I also have a horizontal Hotbar kept up on my screen (which is non-functional on console) for my most valuable PvP/PvE actions. The only purpose it serves is to give me a way to keep an eye on my CD's, so I always know what's up and what's down without actually having to swap my active hotbar. Everyone has their own way of doing things, though. You'll have to experiment and get a feel for what works best for you. As long as you have access to those abilities, then you're good to go. Even if they're still at level 1, they're still useful, so don't forget them.
  
  
• Practice. Practice. Practice.
  
  How you practice will vary depending on your role, but everyone starts off with the basics. If you're a dps, look up your burst rotation (some of them can be found here in the forums if you search around a bit), then hit up a practice dummy till you get comfy with it. Or, conversely, jump right into a match. Not many people (hopefully no one) are going to complain about a fresh face in a casual 8v8 match, so there's no harm in trying. The end results also give you an accurate way of judging just how much dps you did. The more the better. Keep in mind, however, that the numbers you'll see in a 8v8 match do not reflect what is considered "good" in a real, ranked, 4v4 match. There's just too many players to be comparable.
  
  Dueling is another way to get some 1v1 practice, especially if you happen to find a PvP vet on your job who can show you the ropes. For healers, as well, it's a good way to practice healing through a proper PvP burst. Find someone to kick your ass up and down the arena and try to stay alive. Once you've gotten decent at it, go into a match and see if you can keep SEVEN other people alive as well as yourself.
  
  As for Tanks, Duels are good, but they're no where near the same as what's expected of you in an arena. Wars probably have the biggest similarity between dueling and their actual matches, so if you chose that job and want to practice your double Fell Cleave rotation then it's a good place to start. Plds, on the other hand, will have fun in duels but it won't teach you anything about your party utility. The only way to learn that (for both jobs) is to get into actual matches.
  
  Again, though, I can't stress enough how different casual matches are to ranked matches. If you eventually decide to take yourself into a ranked match, expect a very different pace and style. 8v8 can also be a bit of a pain to learn in, because there's just so much more going on (kinda like the difference between a 4man dungeon and a 8 or 24 man). Just try to keep your cool and train your eyes to take it all in.
  
  
• Advanced Tactics
  
  If you decide you like PvP and want to make an honest go at improving and sticking around, then you'll probably find yourself looking for ways to improve and asking a lot of questions. If there's something you don't know how to do, can't figure out, or just want advice on, don't be shy about asking questions here in the forums. There's a lot of little things that happen in the background of PvP (such as ability restrictions, face target functions, hotbar gimmicks, Crowd Control resistances, duration, and reset timers, etc) that most casual players won't know unless they read up on the patch notes or come here to ask questions. There's also a lot of little tips and tricks we can teach you as well.

After that you just gotta decide if it's for you or not. I'm not going to lie to you, PvP is naturally a competitive environment, so the crowd can be rough at times. This is especially so in ranked matches, where your shortcomings can cost someone their standing. There's also a lot of longstanding problems that SE has failed to address. That said, it can be incredibly fun and addictive if you give it an honest shot and keep a tough skin. Try to have some fun with it and see if it suits you.

A big thing is, as you sort of mention, knowing what your abilities are and using every tool at your disposal. It seems pretty obvious, I mean you wouldn't dps and never pop raging strikes in pve, right? PvP is a lot more situational so its easy to overthink, hesitate, and fall into the pattern of just not using stuff. Don't do that. Get in the habit of firing off everything you have when in doubt, and from there work on learning to optimize (when to hold back, what order to use stuff in, etc). Hopefully that makes sense xD For me it's made all the difference and the jobs I approached learning to play with that in mind I do much better on.

Knowing what tools your opponents have is important too. If its an option, getting PvP experience on other jobs, even if you don't plan on learning to play them well, goes a long ways.

This is all very good advice, and thanks to the people that provided it! Two important things I wanted to say is 1: the PvP community, while certainly competitive and not without its faces/heels has been a great community to be part of. For the ones I actively talk to in Discord or even in game, they're hilarious, generous people who enjoy a part of the game I also enjoy (a rarity for me) and that far outweighs any toxicity present.

And 2: Understand that we've all taken our lumps to get where we are. The important thing is to keep trying, keep practicing, and assess your performance to look for ways to improve. Take advantage of the new dueling grounds to really learn from others, but most importantly, keep trying. :)

A lot of very good advice has been given... I don't think I can even add to it.

So I'd like to say this: the different modes play very differently. Whereas the Feast is arena styled and kill based, Frontlines are battleground styled and more objective based. This leads to the different playstyles that are needed for what it is that you're running. Don't be disheartened if you aren't great in one mode, try the others and see if that suits your style of play more.

I, personally, am god-awful at 4v4 Feast, yet I can be much better at 8v8 and Frontlines. Depending on the role you play and what your strengths are, you'll have more fun in whatever your playstyle suits.

The fact that you are posting on here and are actually interested in getting better at PvP makes you better than 90% of the player base, so cheer up!

Other than that, there are some guides at https://pvpaissa.com you can check out.

Side note most of the players that are toxic probably are people that are new to pvp in the first place. >.>

The loudest morons are usually the most terrible ones. Even if they might have been good, their inability to shut up for more than five seconds ensures their complete uselessness.

And I can assure you, you're not the worst. You should ask Aether about their absolutely most hated Feast player some time. Yes, it's the same person for 90% of us.

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Originally Posted by Isala

The loudest morons are usually the most terrible ones. Even if they might have been good, their inability to shut up for more than five seconds ensures their complete uselessness.

And I can assure you, you're not the worst. You should ask Aether about their absolutely most hated Feast player some time. Yes, it's the same person for 90% of us.

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I found this to be true in frontlines 99% of the time sometimes i just had to call them out on it too

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Originally Posted by Dumbledoremd

I found this to be true in frontlines 99% of the time sometimes i just had to call them out on it too

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It's the same in Feast, as well.

If a player has the time to be typing criticism and hate in the chat box, then I can almost guarantee that they are not doing their job to the best of their ability. PvP is just too fast paced for that. Unless the enemy team is particularly crummy, you do not have that kind of time. A lot of players (including some veterans) fail to realize that for every bit of bitching they do, they're often doing a lot more harm than good by sacrificing their own personal performance just to type. In most cases they'd be better off just staying focused on their own jobs, rather than frantically typing messages in the chat box. The only exceptions are constructive criticisms that can actually make a difference, or tactical call outs. Anything else is just a waste of precious time , which is why a lot of PvP'ers make such heavy use of maccros in the first place.

I'm pretty excited to try PVP. I tend to PVP a lot playing these kinds of games. I was quite disappointed when I found out it got pushed back to lvl 50 since it used to be 30 (I think).

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

I'm pretty excited to try PVP. I tend to PVP a lot playing these kinds of games. I was quite disappointed when I found out it got pushed back to lvl 50 since it used to be 30 (I think).

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Sadly, you're going to be disappointed again, because you're very unlikely to get into a match at lvl 50, as well.

The problem isn't so much that PvP was pushed back to 50. It's just that it wasn't sustainable at lvl 30. People wanted to play with their full and complete builds, with all of their skills. So, naturally, once players reached lvl 50 they stopped queuing for 30. There just wasn't a reason to gimp yourself in the arena when there was a higher level format available. As a result, lvl 30 Wolves Den died long before SE adjusted the Duty Finder.

The same thing happened again when the Heavensward expansion was released. Once players reached lvl 60, they had all new skills and abilities. No one wanted to play without them, so no one who is at lvl 60 queues for anything below that level. Frontlines: Secure, was pretty well loved, but it was nailed into its coffin by Seize. It still exists, mind you. SE is unlikely to get rid of it, because they need to provide a lvl 50 PvP option for players who do not have the expansion, but no one queues for it. Compared to level 60 PvP, it's essentially dead.

Honestly, it's not an uncommon story in FFxiv, regardless of content. The newest game mode almost always kills the one that came before it (Ie: The Coils of Bahamut raids are essentially dead in favour of Alexander, despite Bahamut being widely considered better). If there's more reasons to queue for the most recent content, then that's all people will ever queue for. The only real PvP exception, so far, has been Feast, as it has remained active for 2 full seasons. That said, there are consistent incentives for players queuing for Feast each season. If SE came out with a new ranked game mode with better incentives than Feast, then it's likely that Feast would also drop dead on the spot ... unless, of course, the new game mode was so repulsive that no one wanted to play it (like Shatter).

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Originally Posted by Februs

Sadly, you're going to be disappointed again, because you're very unlikely to get into a match at lvl 50, as well.

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That is pretty sad. I came from a game where I could level a toon from 10 to max with PVP alone. I grew be quite good at it and to really enjoy it. I also liked that you could learn your toon by slowly getting skills while PVPing instead of being thrown right in. I enjoy this games story and I'm sure once I get to max the PVP will be fun, so it isn't a huge concern.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Try anything but healer first. Healing in PvP is way harder than healing in endgame Savage raids.

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I'm still a lowbie so I can't relate to healing in Savage raids, but was your comment a general reference to healing in PVP vs PVE or is there something specific in PVP in this game that makes it more difficult than one might expect? I'm asking because I did PVP in another game for several years, almost exclusively as a healer, and absolutely LOVED it, especially the rush of preventing at the last second the opposing side from getting a kill despite being attacked myself.

But DPS in PVP? Or healing in PVE? Meh.

To the op, doing PVP with friends makes a huge difference. It was how I got started, and until I tried PVP I never thought I'd like it. Hopefully you have some friendly folks you can play with.

I've been having a blast with 8 on 8 feast again, training so I can try 4 on 4 on the 3rd season and hope to be better.

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

That is pretty sad. I came from a game where I could level a toon from 10 to max with PVP alone. I grew be quite good at it and to really enjoy it. I also liked that you could learn your toon by slowly getting skills while PVPing instead of being thrown right in. I enjoy this games story and I'm sure once I get to max the PVP will be fun, so it isn't a huge concern.

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It's kind of the nature of the game, unfortunately. Our skills are given to us in level brackets, incentives are higher for newer content, and there's a level sync system for older content. All of this ensures that people will spend the majority of their time at the leading frontier of what's new.

It's not all bad, though. FFxiv is heavily slanted towards PvE over PvP, so you'll have plenty of content to keep you busy until you reach level cap and you'll practically fly through your levels. Most people only run their roulettes at that point, unless they're into savage or extreme content. In that regard, PvP actually fits in quite nicely, because you'll have a bit of variety to work with other than the same dungeons/trials/raids over and over.

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Originally Posted by goob

I'm still a lowbie so I can't relate to healing in Savage raids, but was your comment a general reference to healing in PVP vs PVE or is there something specific in PVP in this game that makes it more difficult than one might expect?

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It's less predictable and faster paced.

In PvE, everything is on a script. Once you know the patterns and attacks, you can practically heal in your sleep. The only exception is if you have a troublesome party that likes to make mistakes or stand in stupid. Even at the savage or extreme level, it becomes more of a numbers game than anything else. Assuming you have the stats to achieve a good result, you eventually fall into a routine for each fight. The better you memorize that routine, the better you'll do.

PvP isn't like that. Damage outputs and spreads are unpredictable, because you're facing live opponents. Tanks don't have enmity the whole time. There's no script to follow. There's no special attack indicators to look out for which televise when one or more players are going to take a big hit, etc. You have to think and act on the fly. There's a much heavier emphasis on reaction over preparation, and every fight is different.

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

That is pretty sad. I came from a game where I could level a toon from 10 to max with PVP alone.

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This is a feature i would love to see in here, in SWTOR i leveled my character mainly in Warzones and only PvE i did there was main quest line. Tank/Melee Bounty Hunter hybrid ftw!

If it's okay, I'd rather ask this here than make an entire new thread (and asking PvP questions in Reddit's Daily Megathread is always met with dead silence):

I learned to PvP as PLD, but the Shatter design has finally made me drop it, because I felt like most of my defensive/CC toolkit was wasted on Ice DPS races, back-capping shenanigans, and teams half-heartedly poking each other from 30y.

I've switched to MNK, but I feel like I've been struggling to use it properly. And I just had a Frontline match where several players took time to point out my total Damage Done in party chat, and laugh heavily about it... so I think I'm doing something really wrong.

I had spent that match (Seal Rock) first being chased halfway around the map by two MCH obsessed with killing me, then took the opportunity after I rez'd at base to cap and guard two tomeliths that all three teams were ignoring while the rest of my team and the enemy teams brawled over the third active tomelith. Once those tomeliths drained, I met back up with my team. So my combat uptime was low that match, but I understand that's still not an excuse for bringing low total damage as DPS.

I tend to get bewildered and freeze up as MNK when a big engagement starts, because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be doing. I know I'm supposed to kill things, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that correctly.

• Do I just attack whoever looks vulnerable, or should I be using MNK's toolkit to focus a healer and disable them with Somersault and using PB to spam Silence and One Ilm?
• Or should I just try to overwhelm their healing with a high-damage rotation, instead of that disabling utility rotation of Arm / One Ilm?
• Do I save Axe Kick for disabling physical classes, or use on CD to get GL3 up when engaging? Same for Somersault, save for disabling healers or use on CD for the damage boost?
• Am I supposed to just dive into the big ball of death? I don't want to get myself killed, but if I don't risk doing that, it feels like I spend most of my time watching the fight and waiting for a chance to safely engage, and I know that must not be right. But I've developed this shyness from getting myself killed a lot by diving in.
• A lot of times it feels like what I'm doing is pointless, because the enemy healer(s) is way in the backline. I can't cross to the backline safely without overextending and getting focused and killed out of healing range, but while the healers are still alive all the damage I do to front/mid line enemies just gets healed right back up. Should I just keep pounding my fists against the nearest target anyway?
• Is it okay to roam as MNK (like when I went off to cap and hold those two tomeliths), or do I need to always stay with the party, attacking something?

I was never called out like that as PLD, so I think I'm playing MNK a lot worse, even though I'm trying. I feel bad and I want to do better, so any guidance is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

• Am I supposed to just dive into the big ball of death? I don't want to get myself killed, but if I don't risk doing that, it feels like I spend most of my time watching the fight and waiting for a chance to safely engage, and I know that must not be right. But I've developed this shyness from getting myself killed a lot by diving in.
• A lot of times it feels like what I'm doing is pointless, because the enemy healer(s) is way in the backline. I can't cross to the backline safely without overextending and getting focused and killed out of healing range, but while the healers are still alive all the damage I do to front/mid line enemies just gets healed right back up. Should I just keep pounding my fists against the nearest target anyway?

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Read your entire post. The very questions your asking (and every melee worth their salt SHOULD be asking, and on a regular basis) genuinely make me think youre on the road to greatness. They, if nothing else, show you clearly understand what needs TO be done. So I'll just answer from personal experience.


Pretty much 100% of the stuff that happens in pvp is situational. In one instance, it will work beautifully, in another, its the last thing in the world you wanna do. While factoring that in, it really helps to just keep in mind what kind of a pvper you are in general. Are you the cautious type, that plays it safe and smart, gives his healers no cause for worry (least not in the shortrun), and makes surgical, calculated, always-have-an-exit attacks, or are you the balls to the walls gambler type (if I can get in, kill you, and escape with the fires of hell on my ass with 5% hp remaining) whose willing to push it to the very edge? I believe once you can HONESTLY answer that question, everything else should at least start to fall into place.

Its all a learning proccess methinks (been pvping last 12 years and Im still finding out cool tactics and mindgames) so as you work the above out, push aside that 'shyness of death/scolding.' Yeah, to an extent, it is a team sport, but if someone wants to call you out for what they interpet as low dps or a mindless death, at some point, you just gotta turn to em in as dignified a manner as possible and say '...f*k you." So much in pvp is on the spot judgement calls (alot of which you can kinda forecast from trial an error) so just go with your gut tells you.

As far as healers go the top 3 questions that come to my mind are:
1. Is my burst up?
2. Who is the healer?
3. What is the healing job?

Again, only gonna get better with experience. Some healers'll crack soon as you send a fart in their general direction while others'll outheal an atomic bomb (Graci -_-) Theres also team composition to consider (do you have another melee/tank going in deep with you or is it all ranged, in which case youre gonna draw more fire) Against stronger healers, as drg, I love playing 'tug of war' with em by jumping on a ranged dps (the squishiest role in pvp) and seeing just how much mp they're willing to invest in em

Above all else though (no matter the job really) get to know your job inside out. Reflexively, instinctively, with eyes closed and under a waterfall UmmMMMMmmmmM~ etc. Spend 2 hours a day beating on the dummies in wolves den, or the timed ones outside Idylshire and perfect your burst (I mean really LOOK at the actual numbers/ time) Even have duels now so get a friend to get in some live combat.

Lastly, and I speak this particular point with utmost seriousness, always, always, ALWAYS....kill the enemy lalas 1st. Always. Don't care if your house is on fire and your beloved pookie wantsa bootie call like the world is ending,...the lala goes 1st. I CANNOT stress the importance of this singular fact enough.

it's not easy to be the worst player, that is some dedication

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

I tend to get bewildered and freeze up as MNK when a big engagement starts, because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be doing. I know I'm supposed to kill things, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that correctly.

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XD It's okay.

Anyway, PvP (in all modes) is very different from PvE. For a start, you should learn how to BURST. PvE style rotations are okay. But if you really want to kill targets, you have to know how to burst. What bursts do - If coordinated with another DPS, it will 100-to-0 a target almost instantaneously. If you're trying to solo kill a target, a burst will increase your chance of a kill on a target with 50% or less HP.

The Wolf Pups Den Discord (although centered on Feast) is a good resource. I recommend joining and asking questions about bursting with MNK or whatever you want to learn in the "melee questions" channel. Since I'm not too familiar with MNK's burst, I can't tell you how to do it (although I know that Forbidden Chakra and Tornado Kick are definitely used in it). However, there are top tier PvP vets in that Discord that can tell you how. ^_^

UPDATE:
Just some tips for Frontlines:
- Don't attack targets with their healer around... if you don't have your healer around.
- Attack targets that doesn't have their healer around... if you have your healer around (unless you're good at 1v1)
- Don't tunnel vision a target into a trap.
- Always be aware of the objectives... and go after them.
- Always try to get Battle High/Battle Fever.
- Don't attack jobs with push-back abilities at the end of a cliff (MCH, WHM, SCH - they will push you off... and you will die).

Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck!