https://r.kyaa.sg/idgoah.png
Up to date values found below, could be useful to some people, I know I would've loved this information when I was melding!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...UJE/edit#gid=0
P.s. There might be lower craftsmanship ratings for certain breakpoints, I'll bold anything that I know is a guaranteed breakpoint!
Craftsmanship Breakpoints for 4★Crafting
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10-04-2016, 08:55 AMSayboarCraftsmanship Breakpoints for 4★Crafting
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10-04-2016, 02:30 PMKatlyna
Thanks Saber Kitty this is great information!
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10-04-2016, 10:06 PMChameleonMS
There is additional data in this post.
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10-04-2016, 11:35 PMMariaNyan
Here some additional Info, i tested them ingame.
1014 Craftsmanship results in CsII=142 Progress.
1014 Craftsmanship results in CsII with IngenI=175 Progress.
1014 Craftsmanship results in CsII with IngenII=196 Progress.
1014 Craftsmanship results in Standard Synthesis=177 Progress.
1014 Craftsmanship results in Standard Synthesis with IngenII=245 Progress.
(under baked onion soup)
1042 Craftsmanship results in CsII=146 Progress.
1042 Craftsmanship results in CsII with IngenI=180 Progress.
1042 Craftsmanship results in CsII with IngenII=202 Progress.
1055 Craftsmanship results in CsII=148 Progress.
Notice this is a breakpoint for Mume+PbP.
MuMe+PbP=1084 Progress | 1968-1084=884 missing Progress. | 884/148=6 CsII
Great Thread!
Cheers,
Maria -
10-05-2016, 02:55 AMPROBOUND
Great work, May i request that you continue the threshold theorycrafting with Heavens Egg Soup. I know that most of us would never give up our CP but it would be nice to see the potential possibilities. I was told that around 1200-1230 Craftmanship a 4step progress rotation is possible.
Don't Stop! For Science!! -
10-05-2016, 05:21 AMSayboarHeya, The highest data value I tested was with Emerald Soup on my highest melded character, I can't go any higher, sorry! ^^"Quote:
Originally Posted by PROBOUND
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10-05-2016, 11:02 AMOoglieBooglie
If i remember right, it's actually 1021 or 1022 craftsmanship for 198 progress with careful synthesis 2 and ingenuity 2
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10-05-2016, 04:09 PMSayboar
Found: Breakpoint for 198 CSII under IngII is 1022 craftsmanship, which is the needed amount of progress to complete a 4★ in 3 synths after MuMe + 2x PbP
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10-11-2016, 04:27 PMSilverbane
I took this data and applied it to the Rath's MaMa rotation, looking to determine when an increase in crafstmanship might allow one more failed Flawless Synthesis (FS) before requiring conversion of a Hasty Touch to a fourth CSII.
The answer is 148 progress, corresponding to something over 1050 Craftsmanship,
and 162 progress, which may not even be reachable.
At 139 progress/CS2, you can fail four FS and complete with 3 CSII. Failing 5 to 7 FS requires converting one Hasty.
At 148 progress/CS2, you can fail five FS and complete with 3 CSII. Failing 6 to 8 FS requires converting one Hasty.
At 162 progress/CS2, you can fail six FS and complete with 3 CSII. Failing 7 to 10 FS requires converting one Hasty.
Note that Rath's MaMa for 4* has 16 FS, of which 3 cannot fail. Assuming no conversions of FS to ToT, the odds of having four or less of the 13 "at risk" FS fail is 99.3%. If you convert one FS to a ToT, the odds of having three or less FS of the 12 remaining "at risk FS" fail is 97.5%. If you convert two FS to ToTs, the odds of having two or less FS of the 11 remaining "at risk FS" fail is 91%.
So it looks like Craftsmanship above the minimum does very little to improve your odds when using Rath's MaMa rotation. Other rotation might see different results, but Rath's MaMa only gets 12.3% of it's progress on a 4* craft from Craftsmanship-dependent actions. -
10-12-2016, 06:26 AMMyon88
I've found my sweet spot to be at roughly 1050 craftsmanship as well (I have 1051).
I'm using a variant of raths that ends with two Ing2 buffed CS2s, which hit for 204 each at that craftsmanship level. That allows me to fail 3 FS before I have to convert a hasty to an additional CSII. 1564 + 204 + 204 = 1972
The next breakpoint to be able to fail four flawless synths is, likewise, unrealistic to achieve so I'm quite happy at 1050. -
10-12-2016, 07:15 PMSayboarNot sure how much you care about weird breakpoints for using MaMa, but if you're still using a maker's mark rotation you can complete a 4-star synth in two CSII from 1684 progress (12 out of 13 flawless synth successes) with 2x 142 progress CSIIs (1014-ish craftsmanship), from 1644 (11 out of 13) with 1x csII & 1x IngII CSII (at base 995), or from 1604 (10 out of 13) with a bit higher craftsmanship (1092-ish)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbane
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10-13-2016, 02:35 AMSilverbaneI noticed that 142 CSII progress allows completion in two CSII's more often than 139 does. But because of the risk of accidental early completion and because I would be replacing the CSII with an unbuffed Hasty Touch, I didn't consider that particularly advantageous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayboar
More Control, on the other hand, never hurts. We've probably all seen 98%-HQ-chance synths come up NQ, and it's not fun.
On a related note, last week my wife and I both filled in two lines in our Wondrous Tails book and picked up 3 Mhachi Demimatters each - just two days after dumping a few million gil into melding our mains and her first alt to 4* stats. Oh well, I guess there's still my first alt to meld, although we have all the specialists at 4* already ...
I haven't quantitized the probable benefit of more Control, but for now, my strategy is get the required 995 Craftmanship, max my CP, and put the rest of my effort into Control. -
10-14-2016, 10:14 AMFoxyAreku
Good graph, but I do wish Trained Hand/standard synth was on it. Can see that anywhere?
Mix with whistle while you work and you can trained hand>CS2 to finish and get extra quality. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sayboar
Costs a bit extra CP tho but whistle refunds it most of the time so no big imo. -
10-14-2016, 06:08 PMSayboarYou can interpolate standard synth & trained hand values from the rapid synth breakpoints by flooring (value / 250 * efficiency) to the nearest whole number (I believe trained hand is 200 efficiency and not more than RS?) Maker's Mark makes crafts too long, Whistle While you Work is even worse. If there was seriously high-value things at stake that were ultra-rare then I'd consider working with the Whistle system, but right now it's just not worth it at all for an omnicrafter.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
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10-17-2016, 09:55 AMFoxyArekuAh I see, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayboar
Yeah, people always say makers mark and whistle makes things take too long, but I say what's the rush? I'll gladly spend an extra minute on a craft to ensure a high quality turnout, as using whistle and other spec actions is much more efficient than not using them and pretty much guarantees you will high quality. Just preference I guess.
What you say does make me realize a small problem with crafting these days though, there's no such thing as materials that are actually hard to get. Wonder if that will change someday. -
10-25-2016, 10:44 AMBloody
I believe the 142 CS2 breakpoint may be 1013 craftsmanship, but I'll double-check that the next time I do a 4*.
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11-12-2016, 05:33 AMmcspamm
Another data point:
1041 Craftsmanship
CS2: 146
CS2 + Ing2: 202
Rapid Synth: 304
Rapid Synth + Ing2: 420