GIVE WEAPON THROW BACK TO DPS

Why was this even taken off DPS? After playing a few hundred matches and getting through these BS wintraders in queue, it's more obvious than ever there was absolutely no need to make this change.

Chasing down a player with stacks or a sprinting astro is important. Why give it to a tank? So they can use it 6/7 times a match and have nobody take advantage of it in solo queue? So the WAR can slow the healer for 4 seconds while he gets his fell 8k cleave burst combo off? Why not give it to back to the melee where one can slow down the healer and time their burst? WHY PLAY TOM AND JERRY WITH THE HEALERS?

It accomplishes NOTHING and just makes the melee job harder for zero reason. It's not even well suited on tanks. There's a pvp skill bloat right now for all tanks with the inclusion of weapon throw so it's not like they can take full advantage of it anyway.

Fix it. CC will be nerfed soon so this is even more important.

I agree, as a tank I'd rather have the dps get weapon throw back and ensure the kill.

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Originally Posted by Eikko_Fenrir

If you guys do want weapon throw back sure you can have it but have sprint drain TP again.

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TP was never an issue. If people had issues with TP in PvP before they buffed sprint, they was clearly incapable.

It's a team game, your tank should notice and weapon throw for you. Tell your tanks to up their game, remove anything else from tanks and they might as well not be there.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

It's a team game

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That.

Also you already have Sprint, Positional Pemoval, CC immunity, Stuns and Gap Closers and want more? Let Heavy to the utility guy wich are the tank and healer (except SCH because Miasmas been changed since ever). PLDs can control people with a mix of stuns and heavies, DRKs are heavy masters and WAR can knock you back and heavy so you won't return fast enough. In the end, its a team game be you on solo or team matching.

Even without weapon throw, melee dps have the most carry potential in feast. With weapon throw it was ridiculous. Giving it to tanks helps give tanks a chance to move up by giving them more carry potential. It also has virtually no affect on light party as it won't matter for a well co-ordinated group.

Additionally, melees have several gap closers on short timers while only dark knight has anything of the tanks. Like melees, tanks need to be up close and personal to be effective, so giving them weapon throw makes sense.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

TP was never an issue. If people had issues with TP in PvP before they buffed sprint, they was clearly incapable.

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As a paladin back before they upgraded shield bash to use less tp, the tp issues were real in the fold, even with icarus wings. You could obviously work around it but it was painful. You're right for everything else though, Warriors weren't nearly as bad as their stun was tp-free and melees got invigorate so it was no problem.

I like having Weapon Throw on my Pld. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's been a fun addition. It really rounds out my support role and helps balance out my lack of a gap closer. Snaring targets is especially handy when the enemy healer is down and the squishy dps are trying to flee back to their base. I only wish that more dps players could actually take advantage of that time to score some kills instead of sucking so badly ...

There has been one downside, though. it's made me reconsider my AP point allocation. Before, there was no question as to which abilities should get upgrades, because the options were too limited to offer variety. Now I simply don't have enough AP points to optimize all of my available moves that I have a use for, so I often find myself debating if I should make some changes or leave things as is.

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Originally Posted by Februs

There has been one downside, though. it's made me reconsider my AP point allocation.

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I do Cooldown and Potency as PLD wich are enough for me to get close and Shield Bash. I only extend Duration as DRK because they make people resist Heavy with Tar Pit. Though removing Sprint is the most important.

Ability to throw the match: Healer>tank>DPS
Ability to carry the match: DPS>healer>tank

I don't think DPS, melee in particular, need any love from the balance department. If anything tanks are severely limited in their ability to positively affect a match which makes their appearance in the top ranks very minimal.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

I do Cooldown and Potency as PLD wich are enough for me to get close and Shield Bash. I only extend Duration as DRK because they make people resist Heavy with Tar Pit. Though removing Sprint is the most important.

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I agree. Reduced cool down is essential, but duration isn't nearly as important to catch a fleeing target. The only exceptions would be a Drg who uses Elusive Jump (in which case you're out of luck anyway) or a Nin who uses Shukuchi. That said, a CD reduction enhancement still requires at least one dropped upgrade elsewhere. Glory Slash or Push Back need to take a hit, because Testudo and Full Swing are not negotiable.

Of course, the priority also changes depending on what content you're running as well. I mostly play Feast, these days, so I think of an arena setting. I can picture how some of these decisions might change in Front Lines, though.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I don't think DPS, melee in particular, need any love from the balance department.

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They got all the love on last patches. So yeah its enough, thanks.
Actually if Blizzard II actually gets nerfed like it seems since they said BLM Binds won't pass untouched on 3.4 and Auto-Attack changes. They're still recieving love.

For ninja it's kinda OP to have weapon throw since they got Hyoton to bind person.

Lol all the melee have gap closers (and some have multiple), and fetter ward, and you think they need weapon throw? Meanwhile 2 of the 3 tanks are easily kited, and the one that's not currently sucks anyway. Tanks needed it way more than melee DPS.

Yeah... got kited by bards and machinists today... first time I felt so helpless. I know it's a team game and pvp isn't balanced around 1v1... but I don't like feeling like I have no options. Would it be too much to ask to get a real gap closer for war and plds? But regarding the OP's post, it was a solid choice to give it to Tanks. Gives us a way to be more effective in a team fight. Still useless if you ever get caught alone versus a bard or machinist though...

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Yeah... got kited by bards and machinists today... first time I felt so helpless. I know it's a team game and pvp isn't balanced around 1v1... but I don't like feeling like I have no options. Would it be too much to ask to get a real gap closer for war and plds? But regarding the OP's post, it was a solid choice to give it to Tanks. Gives us a way to be more effective in a team fight. Still useless if you ever get caught alone versus a bard or machinist though...

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Change targets and punish the BRD's team for his kiting.

They have so many gap closers already. I feel like if meele get WT back, they need to nerf sprint to cost TP again. Either that or give a WT to ranged too so they can counter.

Don't forget that while a ranged is running they hit like a wet noodle unless it's a SMN in the middle of a burst rotation.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

They have so many gap closers already. I feel like if meele get WT back, they need to nerf sprint to cost TP again. Either that or give a WT to ranged too so they can counter..

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This would be terrible for Pld and War. The lack of a gap closer along with the loss of weapon throw on top of bringing back the cost of sprint would effectively make ranged players immune to Plds and Wars. They might as well just go sit in a corner and play cards while the more mobile players duke it out lol.

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Originally Posted by Februs

This would be terrible for Pld and War. The lack of a gap closer along with the loss of weapon throw on top of bringing back the cost of sprint would effectively make ranged players immune to Plds and Wars. They might as well just go sit in a corner and play cards while the more mobile players duke it out lol.

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Wait, I didn't say take away WT, so tanks will still have it. In this scenario, WT would be given back to meele, and either sprint gets reverted OR one WT be given to the ranged. In the latter option, it would be 3 WT from chasers (ranged, meele, and tank), against one from the chased ranged, unless the defending team co-ordinates. 3 WT might also make healers a bit weaker, while allowing ranged some active defense against being chased.

I disagree with giving WT to melee back. Every melee job has at least 2 gap closers. The only tank with any reasonable way to stick on a target is DRK which happens to be the weakest of the 3. Melee already has such a big impact in Solo. A well timed LB can decide the outcome of the match and melee also has the most burst damage overall. On top of this with Fetterward and Weapon Throw there was almost no counterplay to a melee bursting you down.

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Originally Posted by Eul

For ninja it's kinda OP to have weapon throw since they got Hyoton to bind person.

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Did he really just use Ninja and OP in the same sentence?

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

I disagree with giving WT to melee back. Every melee job has at least 2 gap closers. The only tank with any reasonable way to stick on a target is DRK which happens to be the weakest of the 3. Melee already has such a big impact in Solo. A well timed LB can decide the outcome of the match and melee also has the most burst damage overall. On top of this with Fetterward and Weapon Throw there was almost no counterplay to a melee bursting you down.

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A well timed bard burst (1.5m CD) can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed BLM sleep can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed MCH Stun / BTE can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed Holmgang behind a wall can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed PLD stun on healer can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed....you get the point. Melee LB isn't the only thing that can decisively swing a match.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

A well timed bard burst (1.5m CD) can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed BLM sleep can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed MCH Stun / BTE can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed Holmgang behind a wall can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed PLD stun on healer can decide the outcome of a match.

A well timed....you get the point. Melee LB isn't the only thing that can decisively swing a match.

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That's fair and all but I wasn't saying it was the only thing. That's just an extra tool for melee to swing the match even more than what they already have.

I still stand with my argument that WT shouldn't be given to melees on top of Fetterward. From a DPS standpoint it just seems like this would make melees have too much but that's just me. /shrug

I personally thing Fetter Ward and Weapon Throw together is too much. Especially when all Melee classes already have two stuns, one of which is a guaranteed gap closer.

That's a little bit overkill. I'm okay with leaving it to the tanks.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

That's fair and all but I wasn't saying it was the only thing. That's just an extra tool for melee to swing the match even more than what they already have.

I still stand with my argument that WT shouldn't be given to melees on top of Fetterward. From a DPS standpoint it just seems like this would make melees have too much but that's just me. /shrug

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You're absolutely right, and I'm fairly sure that's the reason the devs decided to take it away from them. Melee have way too much going for them. You can go on about how a well timed ____ can win a match, but Melee has the most options out of every role. Well timed stuns, Burst, Weapon throw, gap closers, and being immune to CC? That's pretty ridiculous.

Melee don't need any extra love.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Wait, I didn't say take away WT, so tanks will still have it. In this scenario, WT would be given back to meele, and either sprint gets reverted OR one WT be given to the ranged. In the latter option, it would be 3 WT from chasers (ranged, meele, and tank), against one from the chased ranged, unless the defending team co-ordinates. 3 WT might also make healers a bit weaker, while allowing ranged some active defense against being chased.

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It wouldn't matter. If tanks and melee both had weapon throw, then there would be an endless series of heavy snares on ranged players. That would be just as broken as leaving Pld and War in the dust. Putting Sprint's Tp cost back on wouldn't fix this issue either, because Tp costs were never really a problem for veteran players in the first place. Invig + Enliven + Icarus Wings enabled most melee players to sprint without much concern. They couldn't do it as easily or as frequently, but a good melee could always sustain a decent burst while utilizing sprint, especially with a proper maccro.

The only thing this would accomplish is putting rookie players even further behind the veterans, adding an additional skill hurdle to unranked and bronze level players. Tanks, as well, would still suffer a disadvantage as they don't have access to Invig and lack a gap closer. By comparison, it would be far more balanced if they just left things the way they are, instead of putting in a series of needless changes that could potentially do more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

A well timed PLD stun on healer can decide the outcome of a match.

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But I gotta panic my healers while I runa way with 10 Stacks Koltik.

Jokes aside, yeah all of these can decide a match, Melee Adrenaline just can do it easier do people like to mention it.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

melee also has the most burst damage overall.

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They what now?

...why not just give everyone weapon throw? Problem solved. Blm: 'NO! You are NOT running away from my Fire IV!' Healer: "F*** yo sprint, ninja!" Except for wars maybe. Holmgagrtetrr-w/e's probably the best all in 1 skill in the game.