Upcoming changes in 3.4

Quoting from here

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Duel mode
It will be possible to battle 1 on 1 against each other in a public area located at the Wolves’ Den Pier. You’ll be able to request a match via a menu subcommand, and when accepted a countdown will start and the the battle will begin. We hope you can have fun with this for community events and while waiting for the Feast matches.

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We already got a thread on this.

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Custom Match
Two teams of 4 players will be able to engage in a custom match by having the party leader from one group request a match with the other party.

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This is interesting but I cant see it being used much on any but the most active worlds with the pvp community being so fragmented. Would be awesome if the revamped wolves den could be made cross realm, somehow. Im sure there'd be all sorts of issues with that though.

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Spectator Mode
This mode is to allow players the ability to spectate matches. You would be able to spectate from a viewpoint of the player engaging in the match. This feature has been developed so it can be used for official use, so there may be parts that may be difficult to control at the beginning, but is planned to be updated, so please give it a try!

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Super hyped for this! Even if its not perfect, sounds awesome.

These next two aren't PvP specific but are relevant

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Auto-attack System Changes
Currently when playing as a melee DPS, auto-attacks are executed while standing within 3m and facing within 90 degrees of your target. Since it’s easy for gaps to develop in DPS values because of this, we will be changing the way this functions so that auto-attack are executed for the range requirement only. The angle requirement will be removed and you will be able to execute auto-attacks regardless of where you’re facing.

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I'm not really sure about this one, I suppose it makes not using lock on target more viable.

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Changes to Face Targeting System
The face target feature will become inaccessible while moving. This is in order to remove difference between different platforms. For casters, if the enemy moves your character will face the direction of the target’s current position. However, in situations where you need to face away from the target, players will not be able to simply turn around due to the auto-attack changes, therefore, you would either need to sheathe your weapon, or cancel targeting.

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The change for casters is overdue. Completely silly to have to mash face target while casting. And no more moonwalking I guess? I wonder if this means that casters will auto turn while under bind.

All good additions, in my opinion. I can't wait for duels and spectating, in particular. Custom matches will be a pretty invaluable training tool for anyone who wants to learn how to Feast, especially party matches, but I agree that more populated worlds will likely get more use out of it. The auto attack changes and changes to face targeting are definitely overdue. I don't know if it will prevent moon walking, but as far as I'm concerned, anything that makes unbalanced game play more difficult to exploit is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Enlial

Changes to Face Targeting System
The face target feature will become inaccessible while moving. This is in order to remove difference between different platforms. For casters, if the enemy moves your character will face the direction of the target’s current position. However, in situations where you need to face away from the target, players will not be able to simply turn around due to the auto-attack changes, therefore, you would either need to sheathe your weapon, or cancel targeting.

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Isn't the bolded section how the /facetarget command already works? If you are standing still, it's actually more of a toggle than a command, to be specific. Hit it once and your character will continuously rotate to point toward the target you used the command on.

Of course as you all no doubt know, moving will shut off this toggle, but you can approximate this functionality while moving by spamming the command to get it to continuously reupdate your facing, which is I assume what they're trying to kill here. It sounds to me like they're disabling the command completely when you're in motion to prevent it being spammed in the above situation - how they plan to do this I don't know. I'm guessing if your character is moving the /facetarget command will do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Isn't the bolded section how the /facetarget command already works? If you are standing still, it's actually more of a toggle than a command, to be specific. Hit it once and your character will continuously rotate to point toward the target you used the command on.

Of course as you all no doubt know, moving will shut off this toggle, but you can approximate this functionality while moving by spamming the command to get it to continuously reupdate your facing, which is I assume what they're trying to kill here. It sounds to me like they're disabling the command completely when you're in motion to prevent it being spammed in the above situation - how they plan to do this I don't know. I'm guessing if your character is moving the /facetarget command will do nothing.

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The wording is pretty vauge but my impression is that casters will automatically face target at the end of a cast, removing the necessity of having to press it every time you cast (which is pretty bad design)
For the implementation Im guessing it'll just produce something like "action unavailable while moving", like the one you see if you try to perform certain actions while falling

please for the love of karma dont bring jump potion to us in any up coming patches or expansions

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Isn't the bolded section how the /facetarget command already works? If you are standing still, it's actually more of a toggle than a command, to be specific. Hit it once and your character will continuously rotate to point toward the target you used the command on.

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Im still pretty baffled why this is still allowed in PvP i mean its almost same thing as aimassist/aimbot in FPS games, automated targeting system in PvP settings sounds like cheating to me tbh.

Well that's just tab target-based MMOs for you, it's not possible to avoid being targeted as long as someone has selected you.

To my knowledge, the functionality that people were abusing in regards to /facetarget was spamming it via macro or something to enable you to run at full speed in any direction while facing your target. I remember seeing a video of a WAR in A4S running backwards at full speed, toward the camera, but never having to turn around which meant he appeared to be backpedaling at full speed.

Technically if you want to run backwards and maintain autoattacks you can already do this with some strafing and camera work already, but I guess it made it too easy; plus it also messed with melee positionals I imagine, like running away from a NIN in PvP without ever showing your back to him.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

plus it also messed with melee positionals I imagine

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This was the problematic element. Denying positionals 100% of the time as well as the chance to parry while retreating are why it had to go.

The change to face target should be just in PvP where it was abused. This will kill some PvE elements like ranged tank attacks while moving or kiting in general.
As an example BRD before WM: The high mobility of this job is more or less the same like with WM, cause you can not attack while moving and your target is out of the frontal 90° arc, cause you will not automatically face the target.
Caster don't have a problem or are affected in any way, cause casts can't be done while moving...they are just affected with instant abilities the same way like BRD without/before WM.

Melees have to learn to use the lock on target function to strave and face to target while moving...very cluncky in group pulls with multiple targets...

This change is the most antiQoL thing in this game i have ever seen...

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Originally Posted by Legion88

The change to face target should be just in PvP where it was abused. This will kill some PvE elements like ranged tank attacks while moving or kiting in general.
As an example BRD before WM: The high mobility of this job is more or less the same like with WM, cause you can not attack while moving and your target is out of the frontal 90° arc, cause you will not automatically face the target.
Caster don't have a problem or are affected in any way, cause casts can't be done while moving...they are just affected with instant abilities the same way like BRD without/before WM.

Melees have to learn to use the lock on target function to strave and face to target while moving...very cluncky in group pulls with multiple targets...

This change is the most antiQoL thing in this game i have ever seen...

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Auto-attack System Changes
Currently when playing as a melee DPS, auto-attacks are executed while standing within 3m and facing within 90 degrees of your target. Since it’s easy for gaps to develop in DPS values because of this, we will be changing the way this functions so that auto-attack are executed for the range requirement only. The angle requirement will be removed and you will be able to execute auto-attacks regardless of where you’re facing.

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You don't have to be in a 90 degree angle to auto-attack in the upcoming patch. Pretty sure the facetarget change only effects the /facetarget command (which is what was getting abused), and not the setting that makes you face your target when you use an ability.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

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Auto-attack System Changes
Currently when playing as a melee DPS, auto-attacks are executed while standing within 3m and facing within 90 degrees of your target. Since it’s easy for gaps to develop in DPS values because of this, we will be changing the way this functions so that auto-attack are executed for the range requirement only. The angle requirement will be removed and you will be able to execute auto-attacks regardless of where you’re facing.

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This only applies for Auto-Attacks and only for melee DPS, not for skills or abilities. Please read before quoting...
All attacks are bound to an 90° arc in front of a char. After the change Auto-Attacks from melees are excluded from this rule. If you face away you will still AA at your target as melee DPS, cause all ranged job seems to be builed with casts and without AAs in mind from this point. Also tanks seem to be excluded from the AA change cause they are not mentioned here.

The Change for face target is a complete different change and not related to the Change of AAs and will probably work like i discribed before:

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Originally Posted by Legion88

This will kill some PvE elements like ranged tank attacks while moving or kiting in general.
As an example BRD before WM: The high mobility of this job is more or less the same like with WM, cause you can not attack while moving and your target is out of the frontal 90° arc, cause you will not automatically face the target.
Caster don't have a problem or are affected in any way, cause casts can't be done while moving...they are just affected with instant abilities the same way like BRD without/before WM.

Melees have to learn to use the lock on target function to strave and face to target while moving...very cluncky in group pulls with multiple targets...

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Please read what is said after the quote before trying to question someone else's comprehension skills. lol

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Please read what is said after the quote before trying to question someone else's comprehension skills. lol

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sorry i was typing faster then you edited...

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

You don't have to be in a 90 degree angle to auto-attack in the upcoming patch. Pretty sure the facetarget change only effects the /facetarget command (which is what was getting abused), and not the setting that makes you face your target when you use an ability.

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If it doesn't affect the auto face target function the change is useless, cause you can just spam any skill to force you face target while running. You can also just keybind the face target funktion without macro and this is what was abused not the chat command.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

If it doesn't affect the auto face target function the change is useless, cause you can just spam any skill to force you face target while running.

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Except the skill has to be activate-able to face the target and slows you down a bit when you try to cast on the move. Also, the statement about auto-attacks is clearly not limited to melee dps...

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You can also just keybind the face target funktion without macro and this is what was abused not the chat command.

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Im referring to the command itself, not the chat form only.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Except the skill has to be activate-able to face the target and slows you down a bit when you try to cast on the move.

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At the moment it doesn't affect movement at all if it is a instant skill or ability, you don't need LoS either, just casts are producing a little delay between single facings, cause of the cast abort delay. Is this something you suggest in addition to the change?

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Also, the statement about auto-attacks is clearly not limited to melee dps...

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Can you be so kind and share the source please. The offical thread only mentions melee DPS. If in the live letter the melee DPS was only taken as example this should be mentioned in the thread...but to be honest the german thread just looks like google translator version of the english...and both seems incomplete on informations and only quoting some phrases from the live letter.

I seriously don't understand how this is so hard to comprehend.

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Auto-attack System Changes
Currently when playing as a melee DPS, auto-attacks are executed while standing within 3m and facing within 90 degrees of your target. Since it’s easy for gaps to develop in DPS values because of this, we will be changing the way this functions so that auto-attack are executed for the range requirement only. The angle requirement will be removed and you will be able to execute auto-attacks regardless of where you’re facing.

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"Currently when playing as a melee DPS, auto-attacks are executed while standing within 3m and facing within 90 degrees of your target." - Example/Explanation
"Since it’s easy for gaps to develop in DPS values because of this" - Further Explanation
"we will be changing the way this functions so that auto-attack are executed for the range requirement only." - The Actual Auto-Attack Change
"The angle requirement will be removed and you will be able to execute auto-attacks regardless of where you’re facing." - Explanation of the Change

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Originally Posted by Legion88

At the moment it doesn't affect movement at all if it is a instant skill or ability, you don't need LoS either, just casts are producing a little delay between single facings, cause of the cast abort delay. Is this something you suggest in addition to the change?

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I'm aware that instant skills don't delay, but they have to be activate-able to be used, thus not spam-able to remain facing said target on the move. Casting movement delay is fine. I don't suggest additional changes.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

you can just spam any skill to force you face target while running

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That's a good point actually. The change to /facetarget makes zero sense unless "automatically face target when using an action" from the character options menu is affected as well. Which I guess could be argued is really "automatically use the face target command when using an ability". If that's the case this is a huge nerf to melee. Use lock on target all the time or accept that you're now a caster with a 3 yalm range :|

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Originally Posted by Enlial

That's a good point actually. The change to /facetarget makes zero sense unless "automatically face target when using an action" from the character options menu is affected as well.

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Slight difference: /facetarget is not affected by GCDs. So if you're chasing, say, a healer while mashing your rotation abilites, once one connects, you can't use another one for two seconds to remain facing the target. You can however still mash your /facetarget macro. So if the target makes a sudden turn and you just keep your finger on W, you'd be running in the wrong direction for a bit in the first case but not in the second.

The difference could be eliminated by using a macro with /facetarget in the front for every rotational ability of course.

Apparently all crowd control effects will share the the same resistance timer. For example a healer stunned, bound and slept in 5 seconds will be immune to ALL conditions including second stun etc for 1 minute (excluding silence as there's no resistance to it). So that will make CC more valuable and strategic as you'll not be able to spam them as before. Also BLM's sleep will become single target instead of AOE.

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PVP changes.
DRK's Unleash will have bind effect.
Sleep will be single target, while CC time will be unified

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from here, and as said by Cool Boy.

In my opinion that CC "fix" is something like a big nerf,
I agree that you have to manage them better BUT,
as SMN shouldn't I use ruin II because it will give immunity to Blind and so to all CC?
and so on, now a single member of the party can entirely ruin your all CC management.

They can't just change something so important in such a lazy way,
when they decided that all the cast would be interruptable by any skill/attack,
they implemented Equanimity and make Surecast a viable skill.
It could be a great new in my opinion but for the Feast only and with a better plan about it.
(for example reducing the CC resistance to 30 sec and the purify cooldown too) <-- I'm not asking for this, I'm just giving a hint.

-- EDIT --
I need to learn to read, I misunderstood what "CC time will be unified" meant.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

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I really hope the CC unification thing is a mistranslation >.< I just finished leveling mch too (bye-bye BtE T_T)

Sorry to disagree but no, that isnt going to lead to strategic usage, but rather the pld/whm/blm gets CC duty and everyone else has to refrain from using ANY ability that includes a CC. Thats more like dumbing it down.

Not really thrilled with how Spectating is being implemented either. I assumed you'd just be able to queue as a spectator and it'd toss you into the first available match, which makes the most sense to me... The way they're doing it now, invite-only, might as well be labeled "spotter mode". I see it being used far more often to just have a second set of eyes on comms calling stuff out. Implementing a lobby showing all available matches seems like an even worse idea since it'd make match fixing even easier (and thats already a problem).

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Originally Posted by Geologo

as SMN shouldn't I use ruin II because it will give immunity to Blind and so to all CC?
and so on, now a single member of the party can entirely ruin your all CC management.

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What are you even talking about?

They're unifying "CC time", meaning if a stun from 1 class lasts 4 seconds in PvP then ALL stuns from all classes will now last 4 seconds in PvP. Apply that same logic for all types of CC. That's what that line says; completely unrelated to what you're talking about. Nothing in the original JP post says anything about DR either, only unification of CC durations.

Looking forward to that 3-4s stun off gap closers and just 3-4s for DRG in general.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

They're unifying "CC time", meaning if a stun from 1 class lasts 4 seconds in PvP then ALL stuns from all classes will now last 4 seconds in PvP.[..]

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Oh sorry, I misunderstood it.

But if I'm more or less happy about sleep/repose will again have the same duration,
I think it removes a part of the dept of any job.
Right now if a WHM want to repose someone he has to know that his repose will last less
than a sleep and so the opponent gain a faster sleep resistance and even if as BLM is annoying
I think it is a good mechanic.

But the thing that worry me mostly is the stun, if they match them to the PLD one, any damned melee
(end even Ifrit-egi xD) could have a too powerful toolkit on their hands,
instead if they match it to a lower time... goodbye to the PLD stunlock?

Did in the post they say if they will set the duration of CCs based on the longest available (how you said in the example), shortes or a midway?

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Originally Posted by Koltik

What are you even talking about?

They're unifying "CC time", meaning if a stun from 1 class lasts 4 seconds in PvP then ALL stuns from all classes will now last 4 seconds in PvP.

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Umm, no. This sounds like a CC buff, and they said they'll nerf/shorten CC because players want to fight more and idle less. Look:

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

imbalanced crowd control can take the fun out of PvP matches for players who are interested in fighting and find themselves consistently slept or bound. As such, we're planning to make some drastic changes here, shortening the duration of these crowd control options and adjusting job balance accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

What are you even talking about?

They're unifying "CC time", meaning if a stun from 1 class lasts 4 seconds in PvP then ALL stuns from all classes will now last 4 seconds in PvP. Apply that same logic for all types of CC. That's what that line says; completely unrelated to what you're talking about. Nothing in the original JP post says anything about DR either, only unification of CC durations.

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Are you absolutely sure that this is what this means? I just want some clarity here, because unification is a pretty vague term, and depending on what SE means by it, they could very well be making some seriously damning changes here.

Hell, even if they re-spec all the CC to be unified to the same duration (all 1st stuns = 4s, for example), that still shoots certain jobs in the foot. Pld's wouldn't have to worry about idiotic dps clipping their stun duration anymore, but the bad news is that War would be the undisputed best choice for tanks, because Pld wouldn't be bringing anything special that War's and melee dps weren't already bringing. That's also assuming the best case scenario where they unify stuns to Pld's max duration. If they unify it to any other job, then Plds would see an arbitrary nerf by being brought down to that level.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Umm, no. This sounds like a CC buff, and they said they'll nerf/shorten CC because players want to fight more and idle less. Look:

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The 4 second stun was an example, jesus. Obviously we don't know how long the CC's will last, except BLM sleep which they said will be 8 seconds.

The point is that all stuns for all classes will have the same base duration in PvP, all sleeps, all binds, all heavy, etc.

Let's just wait a couple of days for preliminary patch notes. Right now it's only empty speculations.