Around this time every gear cycle they add the gobdib equivilent to casual content and it becomes very easy to obtain, please don't SE. I'm not saying this because I want content to stay hard, I'm fine with nerfing that kind of thing just before the next patch hits, I'm saying it because it creates an imbalance among the top tier weapons.
By making the lore weapon able to upgraded to i240 it makes it a thousand times easier to obtain than its equivilents (midas and relic), and this especially hurts the relic. It confuses me why the lore weapon becomes easy to get, when the relic weapon in particular is still extreamly hard (grindy) to get when there really isn't any difference in value. All it does is deter people from doing relic because they can just get an i240 weapon for no effort.
I'm aware that there will be higher gear in 3.4, however that is still challenging to get and won't be gotten for another 7 (at least) weeks from the patch launching, making the 240 weapon still valuable during those first few weeks. My point is to do with the equivilent difficulty between the 3 weapons being messed up, making the already questionably desirable relic even less desirable.
Please think about this repercussion SE.
UPDATE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
Please stop making the gobdib easy to get
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08-20-2016, 06:31 AMLambdafishPlease stop making the gobdib easy to get
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08-20-2016, 06:59 AMJonnycbad
Yes, 240 weapon will be easy to get, however 240 gear will be obsolete VERY soon. Remember: the final segment of Alex is also being released as well as the new stage of anima in 2.40 or 2.45. Lore is the equivalent of Soldiery tomes in 2.x. A new tome will be released soon which will be the "final" tomestone of 4.0 and will be what Poetics was at 2.x. 2.x had 4 tomes (Philosophy/Mythology/Soldiery/Poetics), and 3.x will have 4 as well (Law, Esoterics, Lore, ???). The augmented lore gear is i240, but the new lore gear will likely be 245 or 250, and then 255/260 after being 'enhanced/augmented' (likely a drop from AS12 and 1 weekly from doing Void Ark weekly similar to how we had CT weekly for the encrypted tomestone).
Midas gear is not that great, in the grand scheme of things, it will be obsolete very soon (think of SCoB gear, which was i110 and then was obsolete with poetics gear which was 120/130). There will likely also be a 10 token item to get the new lore weapon, similar to soldier/poetics/lore weapons that required 1000 of tomes to get. So to answer your comment, yet i240 weapon will be easy to get with the new gobdip, but hardcore players will be getting a 250-260 weapon from AS12 or final 'Zeta' version of the anima. The i240 augmented lore weapon will be the equivalent of the i110 weapons from 2.x. The new tome weapons released soon will be the equivalent to ironworks weapons with poetics and when upgraded will be 5 ilvl below AS12 (equivalent of dreadwyrm) and anima 'zeta'. -
08-20-2016, 07:02 AMbounddreamer
They made the 210 weapon easy to get and look how many people still have a 200 weapon.
Gear does not equal skill. -
08-20-2016, 09:22 AMrevonine
I'm not sure it matters. They're allowing everyone easy access to it now just as it's becoming outdated with the next ilvl increase. The people who actually needed the upgrade for savage content have acquired it months ago through raiding. It isn't hurting the relic either as if the relic is built correctly it's second only to Midan weapons for any Job and also the relic itself will be getting future upgrades.
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08-20-2016, 11:37 PMVerlaneNeither equivalent you mention are really equivalent. Midan weapons are still the best weapons at the moment and the relics have higher secondary stat caps than augmented lore and are customizable. Not to mention not everyone has the time nor desire to do either savage or the relic grind. So why intentionally gate these people from being better geared to not be a burden on parties they get in roulettes when your equivalents have been available to obtain for awhile?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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08-21-2016, 01:56 AMaesteval
Meh. It wasn't made easily available at the same time as all of the other 240 upgrade items so it looks like they did take their time waiting. Meh.
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08-21-2016, 04:23 AMCanadaneBecause if they keep the current state of the anima weapon up, taking it from i240 to i2xx (whatever the next value may be) will be less, passive work than it would be to get the next tomestone weapon + it's upgrade for the majority of people since the majority don't seem to raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
You can't judge the work on a relic or anima weapon based on the entire questline of upgrade. Compare it just one. -
08-21-2016, 04:32 AMLalafellDown
It really makes you wonder, why even try working hard when content will be nerfed and we're back at a clean slate again.
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08-21-2016, 04:48 AMRawrz
Because it's pixels.
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08-21-2016, 07:41 AMLambdafish
Thanks for the responses everyone. After reading through all of the comments I have slightly changed my stance.
The gobdip isn't much of an issue. IMO it should come in 3.4 but for the sake of a few weeks it doesn't matter so much. The real issue is the differentiation between the weapons. Having an i240 weapon is fine going into the next gear step, and helps people get into current content, I see that, but I feel that there needs to be much more differentiating the 3 weapons, as while the midan and relic weapons are better than the lore weapon stats wise, they do not feel any more special. Perhaps the feedback that should be taken is not to remove the gobdip from the .x8 patches, but rather make the other two weapons more special and rewarding to get, because as LalafellDown pointed out, why even bother trying in the first place? People will respond with things like...
...but really reward systems aren't supposed to feel like this, they are supposed to feel like tangible rewards that are worth the effort that you put in. If that isn't the case then it is a failing on the devs behalf (and perhaps that is one of the reasons why alex clear rates are so low still)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
The primary reason that this thread came about is because I am halfway through my i240 relic, and with the gobdip coming out, I feel like there is no point in working towards finishing my relic anymore, even though we still have 6-8 weeks of patch left, and another 7 weeks (maybe) after that before I would get anything higher than i240 (i.e minimum 13 weeks with my relic being relevant). -
08-21-2016, 08:32 AMRufalusIt's ok because the Lore weapon has no upgrade path after 240. You would be dumping it and saving for the next tomestone weapon which may again require several weeks of raiding and consume a few weeks of capped tomestones, while the next anima upgrade beyond 240 will have no waiting for weekly lockouts and consume none of the weekly cap tomes. So I feel these weapon options can coexist. The time put into the anima grind is an investment many believe is worth taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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08-21-2016, 08:55 AMKuraiKiserogeru
Please stop thinking the gobdib is relevant this late in patch.
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08-21-2016, 09:00 AMJudge_XeroFor real. Already had to discard a few to make inventory space.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
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08-23-2016, 05:36 AMThirdChild_ZKI
On a related note, I hold issue with increasing the time/token grind for tome weapons to 7 weeks (which oddly put it right in line with the next relic step this time around). It used to take 3 weeks of tome grinding plus 1 token to get a weapon, then suddenly 7 weeks (1 token a week) plus 1000 tomes to get your tome weapon. If the relic is meant to be the easier-but-longer option, then it makes little sense to slow down acquisition of the alternatives, wouldn't you agree?
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08-23-2016, 06:03 AMLambdafishThe 7 week grind was fine. In fact it is much easier than it used to be in 2.x (3.0 was a very strange exception, but I'll forgive it due to the amount of content in the rest of the patch). In 2.x you needed to get the unidentified allagan tomestones from coil in order to even get a tome weapon (let alone upgrade it), and these were later given in CT raids. Weapons have always been more difficult to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
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08-23-2016, 07:22 AMRufalusThat's why the addition of Padjali weapons was met with such enthusiasm. Really the only quick and casual weapon of a relevant item level when the alternatives are Savage or Extreme primal or 7-week lockout or Anima grind, with no high-level crafted weapons in existence any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
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08-23-2016, 08:45 AMMillen1
The i240 may become too easy to get for your liking but it does help speed up getting through content. In the last month as players have returned, I have seen full law gear, i170 to i200 weapons. They aren't in midas normal yet and still need 7 gears. 1 per week at current rate. I have finish one relic, and 20 points left on a 2nd relic heading straight for 3rd relic in a few days. The i235 potd and Lore i230/i240 doesn't bother me. The stats on my relic are custom and they are the way I like the for the content I play. I will value relic over other weapons even though the grind can be a pain.
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08-23-2016, 03:49 PMHasrat
I thought catch-up patching was, like, a normal thing or something. Note, I'm not even through ARR content, so maybe I'm not understanding what's going on here. But near as I can tell, it sounds like they're making it easier to catch up to end game, because all anybody ever cares about in these games in running the newest latest bestest content. So you can either catch up and stay with the end game group, doing stuff as it comes out, keeping you character up to speed. Or you can slack off and it'll be "easier" later when nobody really cares because they've moved on to the next greatest thing.
At least that's what I thought was happening. -
08-27-2016, 08:27 AMawesomega
I dont understand threads like these that dont have any negative impact on your gameplay. Why should you care what other people get, if anything it might make dungeons go that much faster. Who really cares what weapons other people have?
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08-27-2016, 11:44 PMTintwhat bothers me is that this is one part of why the new relic from the 3.x series is almost useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomega
in 2.x we had the relic wich was a huge grind and was on par with the tome weapon, wich was only available for raiders, and the other raid weapon was the best. later in the patch cycle the relic was going ahead of the tome weapon and was on par with the best raid weapon, and around the same time in the catch up patch non-raiders got their tome weapon from the 24-people raid.
this was perfect. raiding and relic grind was worth the time spent.
now non-raiders get the tome weapon, wich is still on par with the relic, for almost no work at all. and the relic is no longer ahead at the end of a patch cycle. wich means the whole grind is good for nothing. okay, the relic may be slightly better than the tome weapon - but months of work better?
non-raiders already got the i235 weapon from deep dungeon, isn't that enough? -
08-28-2016, 12:24 AMLambdafishPretty much summed up my concerns with a shift in the supply of high level gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
Why shouldn't I care about the overall health of the game? About gameplay balance issues that affect the mentality and behavior of the community that I am a part of? I'm a game designer myself, so I see balance changes and shifts in the supply of high level items, and the ratio of effort to reward, and I care about how the game tackles these problems (because I love this game, and want it to succeed in its design choices), and if I don't agree with decisions (because I see the impact it will have in the future, and the ripple effect that these decisions have on other pieces of content) then I will voice my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomega
Take Alexander as an example: From my observations (which seem to be different from the dev teams opinion), the clear rates of raiding have dropped drastically because the rewards are not worth the effort of clearing (from both content getting harder, and rewards being reduced). This is not helped by the fact that this change that we are talking about has lessened the value of weapons as a whole. In ARR, as Tint said, weapons were difficult to get, and the only avenue for casual players was relic (which was kind of ok for a top tier weapon). However, since Heavensward, the overall supply of top tier weapons has gone up across the board (much easier tome weapon etc.), and the value of having one has gone down, which as I said, has a knock on effect for other content.
If you look at my update on the original post, you will see that I acknowledge the benefits of the gobdip, but that does not change the concern of the value of weapons and gear going forward. -
09-09-2016, 12:46 PMRhaegarFFXIFenrir
This late in the patch cycle:
Those players capable of getting/desiring upgraded lore weapons or Midan weapons have had them for some time now.
Those players wanting to grind out an anima weapon to i240 have already done so weeks ago.
There's no reason to lock access to i240 weapons to casuals this late in the game. Everything we have is about to become obsolete, and characters who are gearing up for the patch and have been limited to Palace of the Dead weapon SHOULD have the opportunity to get to i240 in a way that fits their play style. Otherwise, on patch day these guys are going to be entering the new content a step below the rest of us on gear, and that's going to cause resentment on both sides. Now if they were nerfing Midan content that would be a different story.