Crafting Grind

Hello, long time reader, first time poster here.

In regards to the crafting system, specifically the leveling system in this game:
Leveling a disciple of the hand is an incredibly arduous task all of the following reasons
Keep in mind my highest craft is only level 27, so I can only imagine how much the following is exacerbated in the 40's when experience per level reaches 100,000 exp.

1. The grind and time taken per level is extremely long, especially compared to combat classes.

2. The crafting system is slow, and is not engaging.

3. Leves do not reward experience to justify delivery of the remote locations.

I do not have a problem if a class takes a long time to level, it's an MMO after all. However The fact that crafting classes take a long time to level is made exponentially worse by the fact that crafting is not engaging or fun when you have to craft tens or hundreds of times consecutively (in other words to level up).

I illustrate these points with the following scenario which I have personally found myself resorting to:
I will either gather materials for many crafting attempts of the same simple recipe and then just sit down and craft the same item dozens of times; or I repeat the same 2-3 leves (there is not much of a selection at my level at least).

In either case the only way I can do this for the hour or two required to get a level or two is if I watch a movie and spam the confirm button on my controller. If I am doing leves, I pause the movie to make deliveries if anima allow, or cancel the leves if not, and then collect more leves

The above is neither fun nor engaging, and I don't feel that I am playing a game.

I propose the following, in addition to asking my fellow players what you all think can be done in order to make crafting either quicker to level, or more engaging(fun) while leveling. I am not asking for easy quick levels, just please make it bearable

1. Make experience rewarded for turning in leves, much much greater than it currently is, in order to make the trips to some of these dangerous camps ( or the expenditure of anima multiple times ) worth it.

2. Make crafting optionally instant (like hasty hand) with a balanced rate of success and no experience penalty. Make manual crafting the way to get HQ results, and instant crafting the way to level.

3. Make a new crafting system that is more fun and engaging, for example similiar to a minigame, or to the disciple of the land jobs systems (which i find a lot more fun). and then balance the experience gained with extra time required.

Please rate this post up if you agree with me that something needs to change with DoH class leveling! you don't need to necessarily agree with my suggestions, but rate this up anyway, and post your own suggestions and feedback!

Well; i disagree with you.
1- The experience for making 1 item is much higher than go and kill 1 monster + the money you gain from selling it back to shops or selling to players. These are adv of disciple of hand
2- In leves; the same as above, making 5 items in 1 leves gain around 1k to 2k experience point could be more from your level so it's nearly equal the reward from finishing a leves in combat. Plus if you pay attention a bit on quality you gain extra exp and gold. While in leves combat; exp from killing monsters there is very low; unless you using guardian boot.
3- And care to tell me what camp is dangerous around your level ? specially when you have your chocobo already.
4- Finally did you try the "Company issue engineering manual" ? it double your exp from making items; and it's last for like 2 hours; so as long as you did company activities you alway have 2x experience for Hand or Land disciple.

I dont know why you want it to be more easier. Though i prefer if there is some change about quality result; i mean it's really hard to make a high quality item even that item is lower level than yours.

I'll agree that something needs to change with the DoH system. I'll let SE decide what they want to do, but it would be nice if crafting items your level or higher gave you exp chains for successful crafts if done within a certain time frame.

What you suggested about splitting the leveling from the HQ production is a neat idea. Another way to handle it as someone posted in another thread is to have creating parts be the way to level and creating equipment require the mini-game.

I understand some people are going to want to defend the current crafting system and how long it takes to level but I honestly can't see why they wouldn't at the very least agree that the crafting system could use a change to make it at least more engaging than spamming the enter key. As it currently stands, you have a number of crafters who are watching movies or browsing the web as they spam a single button to level. Is that how SE wanted us to enjoy the crafting content in XIV?

+1 to the OP's suggestion of making crafting more bearable but not necessarily easier.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

I dont know why you want it to be more easier.

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The OP is asking for the system to be made more bearable. He's not asking for the system to be made easier, he's asking for crafting to be made more fun so that when we are leveling a craft the monotonous grind isn't as painfully apparent as it is now.

Well; i dont know about you guys; but to me crafting isnt just spamming 1 option at all the times; i mean ya if you just craft something lower level than yours; then you dont have any right to complain; i often craft something higher level than mine and pay attention to the quality also. I wonder if you guys notice this but it is nearly impossible to make a high quality item if that item is lower level than yours. I guess that explain why there arent many high quality items in the market.
What i agree to change is how to improve the quality of your products; cause now i'm clueless; unless i make item equal or higher level than me; it's nearly impossible to make any items +1

p/s: bearable; how is something more bearable ? they have to be easier to do.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

Well; i disagree with you.
1- The experience for making 1 item is much higher than go and kill 1 monster + the money you gain from selling it back to shops or selling to players. These are adv of disciple of hand
2- In leves; the same as above, making 5 items in 1 leves gain around 1k to 2k experience point could be more from your level so it's nearly equal the reward from finishing a leves in combat. Plus if you pay attention a bit on quality you gain extra exp and gold. While in leves combat; exp from killing monsters there is very low; unless you using guardian boot.
3- And care to tell me what camp is dangerous around your level ? specially when you have your chocobo already.
4- Finally did you try the "Company issue engineering manual" ? it double your exp from making items; and it's last for like 2 hours; so as long as you did company activities you alway have 2x experience for Hand or Land disciple.

I dont know why you want it to be more easier. Though i prefer if there is some change about quality result; i mean it's really hard to make a high quality item even that item is lower level than yours.

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quailty doesnt effect exp gains at the end.

Level does in fact effect exp gained at the end. higher level you ll get more exp from turning in a leve than doing it.

engineering manual gives you 1.5 times the exp. its max duration is 3 hours, or 12-14k exp most likely you will hit the max duration first.
problem is there arent that many good ways to get 200 seals that are renewable. the only i know of are supply provision and grand company leves, but none of these give a large number.

as far as selling to players, if you dont trash your items, you will most likely flood the market, selling to npcs is ALWAYS a loss, its what most crafters do, but it is still always a loss.

i think overall the op has the right ideas about what needs to be done for crafting

I'm sure it's effect the exp you earn during making items and also from leves.

I dont know; there are a lot of quests for grand company from NPC - not the grand company leves or from HQ - ; did you look around ? And i dont know if you did the escorting quest ? i think it would give higher seals.

Depend on how do you play it; if you buy material from NPC then you're as good as dead from beginning; If you buy from player but dont check the price from NPC then again you're as good as dead from the beginning. There are 90% of over price products and items from Lands and Hands disciples; You have to check the price; i often buy copper ore for 30-50 gil; zince ore from 80-130 gil; silver ore 150-200 gil that allow me alway gaining profit from selling to NPC. Seriously did you see the price; 150 each for copper and 2k each just for +3 ? If you really intend to bought these; then you dont have any right to complain about not gaining profit.

Of course ; may be because i play it as i'm low level so i have to watch my income; but since you are level 50 you can alway gain a lot of money so you guys dont pay attention to these + a lot of greedy bunch out there = over price products and un-reasonable complaints.

I'm pretty sure that Yoshida has actually said he intends to implement point number 2 above, separating HQ crafting from NQ crafting. I don't have a link to back this up, but I am /fairly sure/ I've seen this in an official statement. (Also, HQ will be guaranteed if you're using all-HQ ingredients, so it's less of a crapshoot if you're willing to spring for HQ ingredients.)

Points 1 and 3 are both still valid though; there's a reason I can't really bring myself to level crafts on this character. (If I didn't have a friend who was leveling crafts and taking all of my results of DoH jobs and refining them, I might be leveling BSM and CRP, but meh.)

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Originally Posted by Ethir

Well; i dont know about you guys; but to me crafting isnt just spamming 1 option at all the times; i mean ya if you just craft something lower level than yours; then you dont have any right to complain; i often craft something higher level than mine and pay attention to the quality also

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I craft items that are many levels higher than my current level all the time. Highest exp I've gained from a craft was 750, and I'm sure I could have pushed for an even higher item than that. And guess how I accomplished that synth? I spammed standard. Sure it gets expensive if I fail a few, but since I'm succeeding the majority of my synths these are acceptable losses.

I don't know how quality factors into this argument as I don't really pay attention to making HQ items at my level. At this point, I only care about getting to level 40+ so I can start putting materia in my gear. Maybe I'll worry about HQ's on high level items that actually go for decent amounts on the market, but at my level it seems pointless to worry about HQ.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

p/s: bearable; how is something more bearable ? they have to be easier to do.

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Not really. You can make something more bearable by making it more fun. For example, if they changed the current crafting system to provide exp chains or combos for successfully crafting, it would make gaining exp more fun and more people would pay attention while they craft.

Spamming enter to level up is repetitive, tedious, and boring, and that's why you see so many posts about people who craft while watching a movie or doing something else.

Yes, What I am getting at is that the system needs to be either more fun, or quicker. In either case it needs to be less grindy.

To Ethir: I don't really care so much about easier, I just want a system that doesn't feel as much of a grind.

An example camp that is dangerous, is for a level 30 weaver leve, that requires you to go to camp Blue fog. The camp has many high 50's mobs on the way there. I nearly died several times getting there as a level 50 cnj, riding my chocobo.

As far as experience per kill, you can get 800-1k exp per very fast kill in a good 8 person party, where you kill many mobs in a short time frame. This is very often the case in level 40+ parties. There is no way in crafting to get that much experience in such short order, for better or for worse.

I too craft above my level, but mostly resort to spamming standard, and half paying attention for light color, but this is hardly fun; especially when you have to do this dozens/hundreds of times to get a single level. Both these points are compounded by the fact that a single craft takes much much longer to perform than killing a monster in a party.

In short, what I am asking for is not necessarily faster levels, but barring that, more engaging leveling at least. All I want is less of a grind to get to 40+ so I can meld materia.

Less of a grind could mean faster levels or less repetitive levels.

Not entirely true; if you pay attention to the syn process; as long as you acquire 1 quality it's consider a success or at least not fail; the skill Epiphany would increase your success chance if you think it like that; you could use rapid syn in case you're no way to complete - using epiphany in rapid syn -

Quality effect the reward you get in leves; there are 5 tries; try to make quality of those items higher and you will see the evaluation for you work also increase; hence your reward increase also + it increase the exp you earn after finish it. Well you guys may not pay attention to it; but a GSM alway have to increase quality even at those grade 1 or 2 items; cause there are limit for accessory; a +2 or 3 grade 2 would provide you the same amount of def as grade 3 but less slot needed.

Well i agree if that you mean bearable ; yes it would be more fun; but to increase exp reward in leves higher would be unbalance.

Just spamming wont get you anywhere; i wonder why they put in these abilities and difference syn options when no one pay attention how to use them >.< .

@Kelvana: 1- About the dangerous camp; have you tried others nations ?
2- You made a pt and i dont count that and i dont want a party for exp either - that sound really stupid, i mean your purpose just to level up then what ? farming leves to sell gold ?, you should understand the class you play and enjoy the game -; my char level up by leves cause i like to read those quests they give out and understand the world; enjoy it. It is called mmoRPG; role playing game. But i agree that it's need some improvement. An idea i take form Mabinogi; Production party, but it will not increase the chance of your success but the quality you archive. How about that ?

Rapid is risky as even with epiphany, any failures are amplified. I have tried to use rapids, but I find it too unreliable in comparison to standard.

Quality has a negligible effect on the end experience reward, not enough the extra time needed to raise quality significantly. at 28 weaver, I normally get around 1400-1600 bonus for level 30 synths, in addition to 400-600 per synth. Failure rate I would eyeball at around 10-30% of the time. I find that failure rates make synths of above the 600 exp mark unreliable. My problem is that the 1400-1600 bonus is not worth going to a camp like blue fog without the use of anima (say if anima is low). The leves that can be turned in for that same bonus in town however I do find fair at this level.

Just spamming is what I have resorted to now, because the system as it stands right now is intolerable. It has taken me a good 20hrs estimated in order to get to level 28. I did start off trying to pay attention to every single attempt, but after crafting for 2-3hrs straight for the umpteenth time, I find that paying attention only affords me a slight increase in experience return, which I determined was not worth paying attention the whole time when I could be doing something actually enjoyable like watching a movie.

And for the record, even when I spam, I do use things like Preserve in order to complete a potentially failing synth. I may spam, but I only semi pay attention, because the system is so tedious as it stands.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

@Kelvana: 1- About the dangerous camp; have you tried others nations ?
2- You made a pt and i dont count that and i dont want a party for exp either - that sound really stupid, i mean your purpose just to level up then what ? farming leves to sell gold ?, you should understand the class you play and enjoy the game -; my char level up by leves cause i like to read those quests they give out and understand the world; enjoy it. It is called mmoRPG; role playing game. But i agree that it's need some improvement. An idea i take form Mabinogi; Production party, but it will not increase the chance of your success but the quality you archive. How about that ?

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Ul'dah is the only nation with sufficient (albeit lackluster) selection of weaver leves. I joined a party because it was fun.... Party play is why I play an MMO. Partying isn't just faster to level, it's also a lot more fun especially for me.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

Just spamming wont get you anywhere; i wonder why they put in these abilities and difference syn options when no one pay attention how to use them >.< .

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I understand that using the abilities may help your ability to craft and increase your success rate, but it is a false statement to say that spamming doesn't get you anywhere. In fact, every craft I have leveled at the moment was due to spamming standard while watching Youtube, movies, and studying.

@Kelvana: To me party for exp is not fun; only strain me out; I only party when doing quest. I dont understand you post on quality; could you explain it clearer ? Anyway; you spent 2-3 hrs really ? lolz i only spent 30 mins or at least 1h if i use the company manual. Like i said you should enjoy the game more, i played 4 class at the same times; so i dont feel bore; half hour i play war and magic; half i play hand. Sigh...... i believe they put a lot of though in this game; but the ways people play is too boring; very few people actually play this game; read the quest; even leves quest; people should put more attention to the RPG of this game. I really hope that SE wont change much in next patch; i hate to see this game become those game line LineAge II or silkroad.

@Bluetaro: what i mean is understand the role you play; every trick, every skill, my main char gladiator also have tricks for skills; combination to increase damage. If you just spamming or fast leveling you wont really playing. It's like you doing it just for the sake of nothing to do. I mean what are you going to do next when you reach 50 in all classes ? when you know nothing about the game; i would only think that you intend to sell gold in game. Do you know what Amalj'aa put on their weapon ? or why the practice of using herbal poultice is banned ? There are more to this game than just archiving level like those others mass products online game.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

@Bluetaro: what i mean is understand the role you play; every trick, every skill, my main char gladiator also have tricks for skills; combination to increase damage. If you just spamming or fast leveling you wont really playing. It's like you doing it just for the sake of nothing to do. I mean what are you going to do next when you reach 50 in all classes ? when you know nothing about the game; i would only think that you intend to sell gold in game. Do you know what Amalj'aa put on their weapon ? or why the practice of using herbal poultice is banned ? There are more to this game than just archiving level like those others mass products online game.

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I see where you are coming from and I agree with your statement that by rushing the exp grind I have a worse understanding of my class/craft than somebody who is dedicating and devoting their time class by class and craft by craft. The point you are trying to make regarding "there is more to this game than achieving levels" is absolutely true and I won't disagree with that. However, when you asked about the Amalj'aa putting things on their weapons or why herbal poultices are banned, I'm not sure where you are trying to go with that. Are you suggesting that I should immerse myself into the lore and role-playing aspect of this game? That by itself is a fine suggestion and I could see why I would enjoy the game more if I did so, but I hope you're not suggesting role-playing and lore immersion is a requirement to enjoy an online game.

I actually enjoy playing the game because I like to build and develop characters, I enjoy making money and earning skills, abilities, and experience. While the lore of the game is fun and all, and certainly very interesting, I actually don't let myself get too wrapped up into it because I have other interests that I care more about. Why would I be interested in knowing about that Amalj'aa trivial fact or about those herbal poultices? Seems pointless for me to know, but I'm not disrespecting your right to enjoying that type of thing. Kudos to you.

Anyway, with crafting, my main goal is to get them to the 40s as quick as I can and then do research about the abilities at a later time. Why do I want them that high? Well, as I said earlier I like developing my character and part of that includes wanting to have some crafts leveled up so I can attach materia onto my gear and help my LS out with their materia craft. It's also very handy to be able to repair my own weapons and armor.

So as you can see, I'm not trying to be the best crafter out there who knows the ins and outs of every skill. I could really care less about that stuff. What I do care about though, and I believe you should too, is that the crafting system in FFXIV should be more engaging and more entertaining than it currently is. If SE could accomplish this, it would attract more players who like to craft into playing FFXIV, which I see as a good goal for them to strive for.

This fact remains; there are many players who are crafting where all they are doing is spamming a single button to level up because it is currently a very boring and bland system, and I would like to see improvements made to this system for the benefit of all players.

@ Ethir: Well this game is not about leveling only. I play in parties to learn my role in addition to being fun. If you don't get used to party play, you will have a hard time with the content that is meant to be enjoyed when you are level 50. Parties may be fast, but they also teach you how to play your class in a group. I do not like powerlevelers though; when I say I joined parties, I mean full 8 man teams where everyone has tasks and needs to work as a team in order to get things done. This is what MMO's are about imo.

I do enjoy this game, please don't misunderstand me. I do plenty of solo activities as well in order to level up, like leves and quests I prefer to do solo or duo, and they are enjoyable. I play a little of everything myself too :).

With that said, I realize that this does not translate to crafting, which are strictly a solo activity. The rewards and boons of having a crafting job, as well as leveling it are entirely different and need to be looked at seperately as such.

With crafting I wanted to get weaver and carpenter to 50 as fast as I could initially. Then I started to realize how dull, tedious and time consuming seriously leveling a crafting job really is. I now just intend to finish weaver first, then go back to other crafts. As for company manuals, I know what they do, but the expenditure of seals is far too great to use them without end. I know there are ways to get a lot of seals, but the only repeatable ways for the long term are not a time efficient way to craft. 1hr nets 80-140ish seals or so, resulting in a couple of hours to get enough for a manual for an extra bonus totalling around 14k exp; in 2hrs of just crafting I can get 30k exp at least, so my time is better spent crafting.

My problem is that working a full time job, I have a very finite amount of time that I can play. I love the game, and like to do a little bit of everything, soloing and partying, why limit myself to just one?

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Originally Posted by Ethir

Not entirely true; if you pay attention to the syn process; as long as you acquire 1 quality it's consider a success or at least not fail; the skill Epiphany would increase your success chance if you think it like that; you could use rapid syn in case you're no way to complete - using epiphany in rapid syn -

Quality effect the reward you get in leves; there are 5 tries; try to make quality of those items higher and you will see the evaluation for you work also increase; hence your reward increase also + it increase the exp you earn after finish it. Well you guys may not pay attention to it; but a GSM alway have to increase quality even at those grade 1 or 2 items; cause there are limit for accessory; a +2 or 3 grade 2 would provide you the same amount of def as grade 3 but less slot needed.

Well i agree if that you mean bearable ; yes it would be more fun; but to increase exp reward in leves higher would be unbalance.

Just spamming wont get you anywhere; i wonder why they put in these abilities and difference syn options when no one pay attention how to use them >.< .

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qualitiy effects the money, and items you get, not the xp reward i tested this myself, unless i didnt get a high enough quality, i had a rating of over 100, to be honest though, the only way you will get over 100 on a leve, is if it is substantially lower than your level. in which case, the actual synth gives you virtually no exp, you are better off accepting a higher difficulty leve.

the cap is now 750+(seemingly random amount from say 3-20) exp for a synth 10 levels higher than you, in general it is fairly difficult and you wont succeed enough of the time to make it worth the effort, though some recipes are easier for whatever reason. it also take longer with fails succeeds and having to use a number of skills.

the current formula is 250 exp for something your level and 50 for each additional level over you, the variance is like 3-20 more than that. quality has no effect anymore, if it once did.

far as material costs, uhh i dont think you are counting the crystal shards, even a cheap shard is 100 gil, so if a recipe uses 3 iron ore and 4 shards, and you payed 300 an ore (really cheap) the cost is 900+400, if the npc aint paying 1300 gil you are taking a loss. Even if you gathered all the materials, the fact is you could have sold them, so you are still taking a loss. Which is not to say you cant profit in crafting, at some levels, with some recipies, if the market it right, but it is definately not the norm, and usually wont last you forever.

and when you get to like 40 man your talking about like 160 crafts, who is going to need 160 of anything? as it is right now, npc is the only answer.

and it has gotten easier and easier, now its literally to the point you can spam one button and get a 500 exp craft 8/10 times, doing that for 1.5 minutes a synth for 150+ synths is incredibly boring, it needs a redesign

I agree completely with you Physic. It's easy as it is already, just boring. The real question is what can they do to make it more enjoyable. It'll be tough to pull it off and keep it balanced. I've thought about it a long while now and will admit my ideas aren't without their flaws..

Real reason I started this thread was so that maybe we could get a few people brainstorming and help give Square-Enix a few ideas or feedback to help them take a direction with crafting that would make it more fun to all of us. So with that in mind, I would like to open this query up to anyone reading to criticize my 3 ideas in the original post, as well as to to make some suggestions of your own!

Cheers for the night!

@Bluetaro: 1st; yes, because it is called a MMORPG; a role playing game online; where you create your own story; i did not say that you have to research about lore or know about it ? i told you to read the quests; talk to NPC around. Their stories has tie connection; quite a rare thing compare to other MMORPG - lineage 2 none of the quest or story link - I guess you dont play RPG much. Anyway; my point is you try to become 50 then going around helping your friends, it's cool with me. But you're wasting more than 10$ a month in a wonderland but doing nothing, It's like buying a 51 inch HD TV and you watch a 480p movie on it just because the 1080p film shops is further than the 480p shop.
@Kelvana: Oh, i know how to play my role pretty well - i have a long time playing tank and shield classes - the problem is in a party for exp - not quest or boss - you dont need roles; fast killing is the main point as you have said before. And this strain me out, cause my way of playing is enjoy the world; that's type of playing is enjoy the exp. I also have a full time job, so i dont think there is any problem with this; i dont intend to be 50 in 1 or 2 month; i take thing slow, divide the task, read the story of each characters. Why rush ? it does not have a deadline, you dont have to compete with others.
@Physic: Not so sure; when i did mine; same leves if get high quality i have extra exp reward; if not sometime there is no exp rewarded. And about elements; this is why i play 4 classes at the same time; i can alway gathering elements for my GSM; and seriously those shards are extremely easy to get; those people are so greedy that they selling at high price - as i said 90% materials and items are over price -. If you sold 100 fire shards to NPC you only get 800 gil, so why sell it to NPC; use them to make items. I've never bought any shards.

@All: What i disagree here; is increasing exp or any type of changing that allow player to leveling fast. If they intend to make it more enjoyable ? sure go ahead. For example:
1-As i said production party help increasing the quality of product, of course they have to be the same class.
2-Request crafting system
3-If i consider some people dont have time ? i would suggest an auto crafting system like "hasty hand" ; depend completely on chance, low exp reward - even lower compare to if you craft normally with low quality how about 1/3 - and HQ exp reward. This I hope will keep thing balance.

I would be fine if they added in recipes specifically for grinding. I'm kind of stuck on what to do for my R46 weaver at the moment. Sure there are leves, but they are not infinite. I could grind on woolen artisan hats but the amount of karakul fleece I would need to farm is just...I dont even want to think about it @_@

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I would be fine if they added in recipes specifically for grinding. I'm kind of stuck on what to do for my R46 weaver at the moment. Sure there are leves, but they are not infinite. I could grind on woolen artisan hats but the amount of karakul fleece I would need to farm is just...I dont even want to think about it @_@

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imo leves and sidequests turned in are the only ways to level 45+ unless you happen to have a good low cost recipe at 50, but most crafts do not.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

@Bluetaro: 1st; yes, because it is called a MMORPG; a role playing game online; where you create your own story; i did not say that you have to research about lore or know about it ? i told you to read the quests; talk to NPC around. Their stories has tie connection; quite a rare thing compare to other MMORPG - lineage 2 none of the quest or story link - I guess you dont play RPG much. Anyway; my point is you try to become 50 then going around helping your friends, it's cool with me. But you're wasting more than 10$ a month in a wonderland but doing nothing, It's like buying a 51 inch HD TV and you watch a 480p movie on it just because the 1080p film shops is further than the 480p shop.
@Kelvana: Oh, i know how to play my role pretty well - i have a long time playing tank and shield classes - the problem is in a party for exp - not quest or boss - you dont need roles; fast killing is the main point as you have said before. And this strain me out, cause my way of playing is enjoy the world; that's type of playing is enjoy the exp. I also have a full time job, so i dont think there is any problem with this; i dont intend to be 50 in 1 or 2 month; i take thing slow, divide the task, read the story of each characters. Why rush ? it does not have a deadline, you dont have to compete with others.
@Physic: Not so sure; when i did mine; same leves if get high quality i have extra exp reward; if not sometime there is no exp rewarded. And about elements; this is why i play 4 classes at the same time; i can alway gathering elements for my GSM; and seriously those shards are extremely easy to get; those people are so greedy that they selling at high price - as i said 90% materials and items are over price -. If you sold 100 fire shards to NPC you only get 800 gil, so why sell it to NPC; use them to make items. I've never bought any shards.

@All: What i disagree here; is increasing exp or any type of changing that allow player to leveling fast. If they intend to make it more enjoyable ? sure go ahead. For example:
1-As i said production party help increasing the quality of product, of course they have to be the same class.
2-Request crafting system
3-If i consider some people dont have time ? i would suggest an auto crafting system like "hasty hand" ; depend completely on chance, low exp reward - even lower compare to if you craft normally with low quality how about 1/3 - and HQ exp reward. This I hope will keep thing balance.

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you can sell it to other players for 100-200 gil (shards) they sell fairly fast, especially if they are cheap. And yeah if you farm everything, then you dont need to pay for anything, but eventually thats a lot of farming, high level when you need 160 synths tnl, usuallly the things you get exp will require 15-20 shards from just farming, you will tend to run out. However if you are slowly leveling, you can get by with leves, and the shards you get in battle/gathering/doing leves, but that would take someone like months to level

one thing you can try is watching tv while you spam the enter, its the only way i can do it. Also, I dont know if you lvl and DOL, but i find btn and min to be much more bearable although I know they wont reap the same type of rewards you may be looking for. If your just looking to make gil though, try DOL.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you can sell it to other players for 100-200 gil (shards) they sell fairly fast, especially if they are cheap. And yeah if you farm everything, then you dont need to pay for anything, but eventually thats a lot of farming, high level when you need 160 synths tnl, usuallly the things you get exp will require 15-20 shards from just farming, you will tend to run out. However if you are slowly leveling, you can get by with leves, and the shards you get in battle/gathering/doing leves, but that would take someone like months to level

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And that is the purpose of MMORPG; take your time: you intend to play this game for 1-2 years, not just a few months; what the point to be level 50 first ? i guess you guys focus on 1 class reaching 50 then to another class ? Anyway; the shards are not suppose to cost even to 100gil each; they drop like leaves. The problem is those high level; dont pay attention to price much since you could easily spamming high pay leves; 200 per shards mean nothing if you can easily earn 10k gil per leves. Some of you not even checking the price at the NPC; this lead to over price in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

And that is the purpose of MMORPG; take your time: you intend to play this game for 1-2 years, not just a few months; what the point to be level 50 first ? i guess you guys focus on 1 class reaching 50 then to another class ? Anyway; the shards are not suppose to cost even to 100gil each; they drop like leaves. The problem is those high level; dont pay attention to price much since you could easily spamming high pay leves; 200 per shards mean nothing if you can easily earn 10k gil per leves. Some of you not even checking the price at the NPC; this lead to over price in FF14.

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that may be your purpose, but most people have different takes on it. I play primarily for the adventure and the progression, that doesnt mean i want to be one level for a long time, or that i want to spend that time doing something fairly boring. The fact that crafting is as easy as spamming enter offends my humanity, why am i no better than a turbo button? who wants to simulate a turbo button for thousands of synths.

Also, you have to look at how long a crafter stays at one level versus the people he is selling to, if crafter spends 4x longer at a certain level than a battle class, he will always be overproducing goods, and probably producing goods people have no need for.

I understand you want to take your time, but who wants to spend it being bored? and why are you spending such a larger amount of time than a battle or DoL class (from 1-38 on dol, after that it gets pretty slow)?

at the very least id make it more entertaining.

Id probably add quality chains, and more bonus exp per synth for quality,
-bonus exp for quality = 10% for over 100 30 for over 200, 50 for 300+ (over base quality, so wont include HQ materials starting quality)
-Quality chains, continue as long as you go over 100 quality, giving a bonus 20% exp as long as the chain is alive.

Id make group exp company leves where in that party,
-your bonuses effect every one in the party, and can stack between each other (multiple makers muse for example as long as they were from different sources)
-youd be graded on your speed and quality achieved.

Id also add some more visual cues
-risk needs to be measured by more than sparking, because risk is effecting you even when it isnt sparking
-make elemental instability look like mini primals or elementals trying to break your item,
-more direct feedback for what abilities do, success chance +20% in corner when you use makers muse for example.
-and make it obvious whether mcraft or craft is the key stat for a craft, could have differing animations for when you are using mcrafting or crafting.

Id add a recipe book that tracks every item you ve made
-you d get bonus exp the first time you made any thing, and the first time you HQ it,
-you could also get bonus exp for completing every craft in a teir, say all the things a blacksmith can craft from 11-20 gives an sp bonus


some recipes that you have to obtain via quests.
quests would be more complex, and involve,
-doing tough synths, some with certain tendencies, (like one that tends to go unstable with fire)
-speed competitions, do X synths in X time, or before npc competitor does it,
-quality competitions, get X quality on items
-and some that are just lore/adventure related, (journey to X to learn the secret of kobold iron production)




.

I feel these things would solve the boringness of crafting, the loneliness, and the monotonousness, as well as speed up the curve a bit, and promote crafting everything you can at least once, and trying to get hq.

just the changing of having HQ effect sp gains would make the minigame that much more complex, and entertaining.

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why am i no better than a turbo button? who wants to simulate a turbo button for thousands of synths.

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Silly, you dont have to simulate it, they have allowed it in the controller configuration now :D

Well you have to play it smart; in my case all exp from side quest or main quest is for hand; i also submit guild task; this allow my hand class level up quite fast the same as war class. Here is the problem; the main way of level and income in this game suppose to be leves, however due to people tendency - grinding - result in the unbalance of training times. And due to your complains about repairing rate resulting this situation. I believe the 1st idea was quite balance; item can be broken in repairing forcing people to get new equipment and allow a flow in market. But since people always complaining want thing to be easy, there is no way to satisfy them at all. I mean how can 1 satisfy over hundred thousands ?

p/s: the ideas are quite interesting though.

For now, at least until something better comes along, give us at least 4 leves per level group per craft.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Physic

Id probably add quality chains, and more bonus exp per synth for quality,
-bonus exp for quality = 10% for over 100 30 for over 200, 50 for 300+ (over base quality, so wont include HQ materials starting quality)
-Quality chains, continue as long as you go over 100 quality, giving a bonus 20% exp as long as the chain is alive.

Id make group exp company leves where in that party,
-your bonuses effect every one in the party, and can stack between each other (multiple makers muse for example as long as they were from different sources)
-youd be graded on your speed and quality achieved.

Id also add some more visual cues
-risk needs to be measured by more than sparking, because risk is effecting you even when it isnt sparking
-make elemental instability look like mini primals or elementals trying to break your item,
-more direct feedback for what abilities do, success chance +20% in corner when you use makers muse for example.
-and make it obvious whether mcraft or craft is the key stat for a craft, could have differing animations for when you are using mcrafting or crafting.

Id add a recipe book that tracks every item you ve made
-you d get bonus exp the first time you made any thing, and the first time you HQ it,
-you could also get bonus exp for completing every craft in a teir, say all the things a blacksmith can craft from 11-20 gives an sp bonus


some recipes that you have to obtain via quests.
quests would be more complex, and involve,
-doing tough synths, some with certain tendencies, (like one that tends to go unstable with fire)
-speed competitions, do X synths in X time, or before npc competitor does it,
-quality competitions, get X quality on items
-and some that are just lore/adventure related, (journey to X to learn the secret of kobold iron production)

I feel these things would solve the boringness of crafting, the loneliness, and the monotonousness, as well as speed up the curve a bit, and promote crafting everything you can at least once, and trying to get hq.

just the changing of having HQ effect sp gains would make the minigame that much more complex, and entertaining.

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I totally agree. I would like to add suggestions to your very interesting ideas.

I like the idea of chains in crafting, I think it would be a bit cooler imo to give a chain bonus for recipes different than any of the last 4-5 recipes crafted, in addition to giving us a large bonus for crafting an item for the first time only. This would both break up the monotony as well as speed up the curve and make it closer match DoM,DoW,DoL classes. Also, It'd be cool to have an achievement that gave say 10-20k exp bonus for completing ALL recipes in your level range (i.e. 11-20, 21-30). These ideas encourage people to try to make everything and help to make the leveling experience more varied and fun.

I also really like the idea of more visual cues... I think i'd like to see a timing based cue though. This would definately make it more entertaining, especially if the closer you are to a timing mark, the higher the success rate, in addition to the reverse.

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Originally Posted by tymora

For now, at least until something better comes along, give us at least 4 leves per level group per craft.

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This would definitely help make things more bearable, and I would be all for it. It however would only be a stop gap measure and would only make things a little less leg intensive. In addition to this, I'd say without increasing the experience per leve, make all leves in town. alternatively I'd say at least make the experience rewards for remote camps worth the extra run/anima, especially to camps like Blue fog.

I like the ideas that have been presented in this thread. I want voice my support of these and add my own thoughts. i'm not sure if it was mentioned but an option of repeating a certain synth, exactly like the message box that appears at the end of a leve-synth would be nice. Anything that reduces the amount of time waiting for menus to load is a good thing.

I was having a conversation with my linkshell the other day and the idea of a 100% HQ chance with no extra work besides obtaining HQ materials makes us very uneasy. On the other hand, yes it is upsetting when you do go to the trouble to get all HQ mats and still the synth yields NQ. Now i have heard that the developers are considering the idea of separating synthesis into 2 options, one for NQ and one for HQ desired result. In the interest of continuing to reward players who have invested all the time and effort to learn the crafting system and level multiple crafts to achieve useful cross-class abilities, i propose that in the hq version a minimum quality must be achieved to guarantee an HQ result, and failure to do so would result in a failure of the synthesis.

I hope whatever the devs choose to do they will consider the effort some players put into synthesis already and not render all of that work for nothing.

On the one hand, I agree that some parts of crafting can be a bit grindy. On the other hand, I also don't want it to be too easy, because I enjoy spending time gathering ingredients, and like that those people who are willing to devote more time to crafting are "better" than others.

I realize they're probably way past the point of doing basic crafting system design, but since we're brainstorming I'll throw this out here anyway. I think the fundamental problem with crafting in a lot of MMOs is that crafting level is directly related to the combat class level of items you can make. This means that unless you always keep your crafting level the same level as your combat class' level, you can't really use the items you create. I would be much happier if the system were such where, say, someone who was, say, CNJ level 80 could with a moderate amount of effort (say, Weaver 30 or 40?) get to the point where they could make basic level 80 NQ gear they could use which would be adequate for their level (the kind of stuff you might buy from an NPC), and maybe occasionally +1s to keep it interesting. But only someone who put a lot of time into crafting and was, like, Weaver 80 or so could make HQ versions of that gear, or some of the more specialized/customized gear that a more advanced (skillwise, not levelwise) or wealthy player might use.

As alternative is to have two parallel sorts of skill levels, one of NQ/basic gear which goes up really fast, and one for HQ/specialized gear which goes up more slowly. I'm hoping that's what they actually meant by separate systems for NQ and HQ, because that would be super rad.

The idea here is that someone who is really into combat but only wants to dabble in crafting can make things that are useful for them, while the player who is really into crafting can make the best things. Otherwise, you either have to dumb down crafting so that everyone can feel successful (and disappoint the hardcore crafters) or make things so complex that those who want to dabble never craft at all because they get bored by level 20 or so.

@Kelvana
Yesterday i ran to bluefog; and i found a completely sage passage. You guys should really venture more