Crafting Grind

[Kelvana]

Hello, long time reader, first time poster here.

In regards to the crafting system, specifically the leveling system in this game:
Leveling a disciple of the hand is an incredibly arduous task all of the following reasons
Keep in mind my highest craft is only level 27, so I can only imagine how much the following is exacerbated in the 40's when experience per level reaches 100,000 exp.

1. The grind and time taken per level is extremely long, especially compared to combat classes.

2. The crafting system is slow, and is not engaging.

3. Leves do not reward experience to justify delivery of the remote locations.

I do not have a problem if a class takes a long time to level, it's an MMO after all. However The fact that crafting classes take a long time to level is made exponentially worse by the fact that crafting is not engaging or fun when you have to craft tens or hundreds of times consecutively (in other words to level up).

I illustrate these points with the following scenario which I have personally found myself resorting to:
I will either gather materials for many crafting attempts of the same simple recipe and then just sit down and craft the same item dozens of times; or I repeat the same 2-3 leves (there is not much of a selection at my level at least).

In either case the only way I can do this for the hour or two required to get a level or two is if I watch a movie and spam the confirm button on my controller. If I am doing leves, I pause the movie to make deliveries if anima allow, or cancel the leves if not, and then collect more leves

The above is neither fun nor engaging, and I don't feel that I am playing a game.

I propose the following, in addition to asking my fellow players what you all think can be done in order to make crafting either quicker to level, or more engaging(fun) while leveling. I am not asking for easy quick levels, just please make it bearable

1. Make experience rewarded for turning in leves, much much greater than it currently is, in order to make the trips to some of these dangerous camps ( or the expenditure of anima multiple times ) worth it.

2. Make crafting optionally instant (like hasty hand) with a balanced rate of success and no experience penalty. Make manual crafting the way to get HQ results, and instant crafting the way to level.

3. Make a new crafting system that is more fun and engaging, for example similiar to a minigame, or to the disciple of the land jobs systems (which i find a lot more fun). and then balance the experience gained with extra time required.

Please rate this post up if you agree with me that something needs to change with DoH class leveling! you don't need to necessarily agree with my suggestions, but rate this up anyway, and post your own suggestions and feedback!

[Ethir]

Well; i disagree with you.
1- The experience for making 1 item is much higher than go and kill 1 monster + the money you gain from selling it back to shops or selling to players. These are adv of disciple of hand
2- In leves; the same as above, making 5 items in 1 leves gain around 1k to 2k experience point could be more from your level so it's nearly equal the reward from finishing a leves in combat. Plus if you pay attention a bit on quality you gain extra exp and gold. While in leves combat; exp from killing monsters there is very low; unless you using guardian boot.
3- And care to tell me what camp is dangerous around your level ? specially when you have your chocobo already.
4- Finally did you try the "Company issue engineering manual" ? it double your exp from making items; and it's last for like 2 hours; so as long as you did company activities you alway have 2x experience for Hand or Land disciple.

I dont know why you want it to be more easier. Though i prefer if there is some change about quality result; i mean it's really hard to make a high quality item even that item is lower level than yours.

[Bluetaro]

I'll agree that something needs to change with the DoH system. I'll let SE decide what they want to do, but it would be nice if crafting items your level or higher gave you exp chains for successful crafts if done within a certain time frame.

What you suggested about splitting the leveling from the HQ production is a neat idea. Another way to handle it as someone posted in another thread is to have creating parts be the way to level and creating equipment require the mini-game.

I understand some people are going to want to defend the current crafting system and how long it takes to level but I honestly can't see why they wouldn't at the very least agree that the crafting system could use a change to make it at least more engaging than spamming the enter key. As it currently stands, you have a number of crafters who are watching movies or browsing the web as they spam a single button to level. Is that how SE wanted us to enjoy the crafting content in XIV?

+1 to the OP's suggestion of making crafting more bearable but not necessarily easier.

[Bluetaro]

I dont know why you want it to be more easier.

The OP is asking for the system to be made more bearable. He's not asking for the system to be made easier, he's asking for crafting to be made more fun so that when we are leveling a craft the monotonous grind isn't as painfully apparent as it is now.

[Ethir]

Well; i dont know about you guys; but to me crafting isnt just spamming 1 option at all the times; i mean ya if you just craft something lower level than yours; then you dont have any right to complain; i often craft something higher level than mine and pay attention to the quality also. I wonder if you guys notice this but it is nearly impossible to make a high quality item if that item is lower level than yours. I guess that explain why there arent many high quality items in the market.
What i agree to change is how to improve the quality of your products; cause now i'm clueless; unless i make item equal or higher level than me; it's nearly impossible to make any items +1

p/s: bearable; how is something more bearable ? they have to be easier to do.

[Physic]

Well; i disagree with you.
1- The experience for making 1 item is much higher than go and kill 1 monster + the money you gain from selling it back to shops or selling to players. These are adv of disciple of hand
2- In leves; the same as above, making 5 items in 1 leves gain around 1k to 2k experience point could be more from your level so it's nearly equal the reward from finishing a leves in combat. Plus if you pay attention a bit on quality you gain extra exp and gold. While in leves combat; exp from killing monsters there is very low; unless you using guardian boot.
3- And care to tell me what camp is dangerous around your level ? specially when you have your chocobo already.
4- Finally did you try the "Company issue engineering manual" ? it double your exp from making items; and it's last for like 2 hours; so as long as you did company activities you alway have 2x experience for Hand or Land disciple.

I dont know why you want it to be more easier. Though i prefer if there is some change about quality result; i mean it's really hard to make a high quality item even that item is lower level than yours.

quailty doesnt effect exp gains at the end.

Level does in fact effect exp gained at the end. higher level you ll get more exp from turning in a leve than doing it.

engineering manual gives you 1.5 times the exp. its max duration is 3 hours, or 12-14k exp most likely you will hit the max duration first.
problem is there arent that many good ways to get 200 seals that are renewable. the only i know of are supply provision and grand company leves, but none of these give a large number.

as far as selling to players, if you dont trash your items, you will most likely flood the market, selling to npcs is ALWAYS a loss, its what most crafters do, but it is still always a loss.

i think overall the op has the right ideas about what needs to be done for crafting

[Ethir]

I'm sure it's effect the exp you earn during making items and also from leves.

I dont know; there are a lot of quests for grand company from NPC - not the grand company leves or from HQ - ; did you look around ? And i dont know if you did the escorting quest ? i think it would give higher seals.

Depend on how do you play it; if you buy material from NPC then you're as good as dead from beginning; If you buy from player but dont check the price from NPC then again you're as good as dead from the beginning. There are 90% of over price products and items from Lands and Hands disciples; You have to check the price; i often buy copper ore for 30-50 gil; zince ore from 80-130 gil; silver ore 150-200 gil that allow me alway gaining profit from selling to NPC. Seriously did you see the price; 150 each for copper and 2k each just for +3 ? If you really intend to bought these; then you dont have any right to complain about not gaining profit.

Of course ; may be because i play it as i'm low level so i have to watch my income; but since you are level 50 you can alway gain a lot of money so you guys dont pay attention to these + a lot of greedy bunch out there = over price products and un-reasonable complaints.

[Teakwood]

I'm pretty sure that Yoshida has actually said he intends to implement point number 2 above, separating HQ crafting from NQ crafting. I don't have a link to back this up, but I am /fairly sure/ I've seen this in an official statement. (Also, HQ will be guaranteed if you're using all-HQ ingredients, so it's less of a crapshoot if you're willing to spring for HQ ingredients.)

Points 1 and 3 are both still valid though; there's a reason I can't really bring myself to level crafts on this character. (If I didn't have a friend who was leveling crafts and taking all of my results of DoH jobs and refining them, I might be leveling BSM and CRP, but meh.)

[Bluetaro]

Well; i dont know about you guys; but to me crafting isnt just spamming 1 option at all the times; i mean ya if you just craft something lower level than yours; then you dont have any right to complain; i often craft something higher level than mine and pay attention to the quality also

I craft items that are many levels higher than my current level all the time. Highest exp I've gained from a craft was 750, and I'm sure I could have pushed for an even higher item than that. And guess how I accomplished that synth? I spammed standard. Sure it gets expensive if I fail a few, but since I'm succeeding the majority of my synths these are acceptable losses.

I don't know how quality factors into this argument as I don't really pay attention to making HQ items at my level. At this point, I only care about getting to level 40+ so I can start putting materia in my gear. Maybe I'll worry about HQ's on high level items that actually go for decent amounts on the market, but at my level it seems pointless to worry about HQ.

p/s: bearable; how is something more bearable ? they have to be easier to do.

Not really. You can make something more bearable by making it more fun. For example, if they changed the current crafting system to provide exp chains or combos for successfully crafting, it would make gaining exp more fun and more people would pay attention while they craft.

Spamming enter to level up is repetitive, tedious, and boring, and that's why you see so many posts about people who craft while watching a movie or doing something else.

[Kelvana]

Yes, What I am getting at is that the system needs to be either more fun, or quicker. In either case it needs to be less grindy.

To Ethir: I don't really care so much about easier, I just want a system that doesn't feel as much of a grind.

An example camp that is dangerous, is for a level 30 weaver leve, that requires you to go to camp Blue fog. The camp has many high 50's mobs on the way there. I nearly died several times getting there as a level 50 cnj, riding my chocobo.

As far as experience per kill, you can get 800-1k exp per very fast kill in a good 8 person party, where you kill many mobs in a short time frame. This is very often the case in level 40+ parties. There is no way in crafting to get that much experience in such short order, for better or for worse.

I too craft above my level, but mostly resort to spamming standard, and half paying attention for light color, but this is hardly fun; especially when you have to do this dozens/hundreds of times to get a single level. Both these points are compounded by the fact that a single craft takes much much longer to perform than killing a monster in a party.

In short, what I am asking for is not necessarily faster levels, but barring that, more engaging leveling at least. All I want is less of a grind to get to 40+ so I can meld materia.

Less of a grind could mean faster levels or less repetitive levels.