Just looking to the post "The Joy of Crafting" and really have many things want to reply, but I think some information may be useful to others those are not looking in that post, so I just open a new one.
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This pose is for someone who are now in crafting / will be in crafting, and want to have more understanding on crafting.
Source of Information:
1, 10/29/2010 Ask the Devs! - Synthesis
2, Ask the Devs! (11/5/2010)
3, YG
4, mooglebox
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Attribute affect:
Higher control = less element unstable possibility
Higher craftsmanship / Higher magic craftsmanship
= easier to success for each action, thus to result higher progress & quality
(Craftsmanship help on some synthesis and magic craftsmanship on some others, thanks Ferth to remind me...my english is not good so may misunderstanding somethings.)
After patch 1.19, if you check the new crafting tools / gear attributes, you will find that new tools / gear are more focus on CONTROL attributes. In my personal experience, new recipes are easier to element unstable...or just because I lost all training!
(SE! I am angry with my disappearing trainings! I brought ALL trainings and you tell me I can't use them?!)
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Attributes favor:
Job: Main Hand / Off Hand
Carpenter: VIT / DEX
Blacksmith: STR / MND
Armorer: VIT / STR
Goldsmith: DEX / INT
Leatherworker: VIT / INT
Weaver: DEX / MND
Alchemist: INT / PIE
Culinarian: MND/ PIE
So you will not surprise that you would use guild mark to buy skills like "Manipulation" - Temporarily increases influence of dexterity on quality.
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Unstable element effect︰
Lightning: Progress greatly reduced
Wind: Durability consumption greatly increased
Fire: Quality greatly reduced
Ice: Progress reduced, chance of aetherial sparks reduced
Earth: Durability consumption increased, chance of aetherial sparks increased
Water: Quality reduced, chance of aetherial sparks increased
So you will find that you would ignore some element unstable in some situation...like fire element unstable, you don't really need it if you just want to complete a quest.
Also, you would purchase skills like "Brand of Ice" - Temporarily improves stability of harnessed ice elements to prevent unstable...different guild provide skills for different element.
Which element to be unstable is greatly affected by which crystal / shards you are using in the synthesis
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Food stuffs︰
Apple Juice (and all juices) - Add Magic Craftsmanhip
Tuna Miq'abob - Add Control
These 2 are most commonly used, you would buy in retainer market or NPC. Although still not updated to 1.19 new recipes, but cooking do not change much in 1.19, so you would still check for food details in YG.
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Skills
Same as battle jobs, crafting have skills. After 1.19, I like to use below skills personally:
Hands of the Gods (Finish Alchemist 36 guild task, 12000 guild mark)
Elemental Appeal (Finish Cooking 36 guild task, 12000 guild mark)
Ingenuity (Blacksmith 30 learn automatically? I can't remember so long...)
Preserve (Alchemist 10 learn automatically)
Harmonize (Cooking 10 learn automatically)
These skills are mainly on control, if you want to ensure success / high quality, you should use another set of skills. You may also find skill descriptions in YG too.
If the skills have description like "Temporarily maintains favorable synthesis conditions. Most effective for finished items." (Preserver), It means when you use this skills, next 4 actions will be in white light if you making finished items. Only 3 actions will be in white light if you making others like parts.
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I personally love crafting the most in this game. I am the one who have 50 CON + THM but never interested in Ifrit but pay all game time with materia and new recipes.
To those who are not interested in crafting, please respect crafters. I will not ask SE to simply battle system just because I don't like to do quest and feel boring to kill monster. So why those would do that things to us?
For repairing, NPC would help you with cheap price now.
For new gear, Ifrit should give you what you want, or would find in market.
So if you are doing crafting, I think you should be at least willing to give some time in this scope. Before you shout "My synthesis failed again! Crafting is difficult!", please check if you:
1, Equip suitable gears and tools like you are in battle?
2, Learn and use suitable skills?
3, Get support from guild / repair npc?
4, Choose correct action (always find someone just press "enter" without looking the light...)
5, Eat food stuffs?
If you don't want to pay little attention on crafting and just expected to press "enter", thencrafting is not suitable to youyou would rank up with low SP & save recipes... (By the way, I always use recipes with 500SP+ for rank up, success easily, before 1.19 and after, from rank 3X-4X)
Serious to Crafting
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11-05-2011, 08:02 PMWinterSkyblueSerious to Crafting
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11-05-2011, 08:15 PMAleczan
Awwww I hear you on this one!
I feel so ripped off. All my hard-working hours to obtain Guild Marks! LOL. So I am gonna keep my GMs and buy shards/crystals instead.Quote:
(SE! I am angry with my disappearing trainings! I brought ALL trainings and you tell me I can't use them?!)
And I really, really like the skill "Preserve." It is truly a must. Makes my crafting a lot easier every craft.
Other skill that I equip and use quite often is "Maker's Muse" the lv 10 skill from Blacksmith. It stays for 4 turns if you're trying to do the recipe which yields more than 1 quantity of the item. -
11-06-2011, 01:51 AMFerthWhere did you get this information about craftsmanship and magic craftsmanship?Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
It doesn't correlate with the info provided from 10/29/2010 Ask the Devs! - Synthesis. -
11-06-2011, 03:06 AMMANTASTICYou like crafting, OK. Cool. Not everyone who crafts does, and I could write a book on why I think crafting is awful in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
I'll just leave this here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...013#post420013 -
11-06-2011, 04:26 AMtymoraThey have identical effects but affects different item families (recipes). Craftsmanship adds progress + quality.Quote:
Attribute affect:
Higher craftsmanship = higher progress rate for each action
Higher magic craftsmanship = easier to success for each action
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11-06-2011, 02:38 PMWinterSkyblueSorry that English is not my first language. I've double checked the Devs' post and you are correct. It said craftsmanship help on some synthesis and magic craftsmanship on some others. Both of them have identical effect, that is to increase the success rate so to increase the progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferth
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11-06-2011, 03:13 PMDerkatron
I fail to see how your training is being taken away. It's being given to everyone for free, yes, but you're not losing anything. The number one rule of content difficulty in modern MMO is 'if you want something easier, just wait'; in other words the tradeoff for difficulty in achieving something is getting access to it earlier. Removing guild marks and training is not undoing your efforts, its simply removing the restriction across the board that you worked to remove early by gathering marks and buying books.
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11-06-2011, 05:51 PMAleczanIt's undoing my effort in a sense, only because I'm cheap (stingy). Could have spent all those expensive Guild Marks buying crystals instead, that way I would still keep my "bought merchandise." But meh it's just trivial thing and I'm just being greedy. It's like regret spending money buying something that would be unusable next week, that kind of feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derkatron
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11-08-2011, 11:03 AMWinterSkyblueI've tried to do some syn which need training after 1.19, like the arrowheads, making crystal from fish...etc. Even I have full set correct gears and tools and master support, the fail rate are higher than patch 1.19. The only reason I can think of is the missing training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derkatron
Also, I am totally disagree that given "everyone for free". What's the meaning of you to rank up your character? Or to buy a skill using guild marks? It is a reward of my effort. I play for 100 hours and earn enough guild marks to buy a training, then you tell me the training is given to everyone so someone just play 50 hours would do the same thing as me? THIS IS UNFAIR!
I expected that one should be rewarded for his / her effort in this game, is it not true?
(IF SE never open the training system, i will not use guild marks to buy trainings. If SE want to take out the trainings, then they should refund us the guild marks. If SE want to keep the trainings, at least they should tell us how will rebuild the training system. But SE do none of them!) -
11-08-2011, 12:24 PMDerkatron
My point was you were rewarded for your efforts by having that skill, training, item, or rank EARLIER. It's a tenant of MMOs, and anyone who doesn't play exclusively this and FFXI is familiar with. The 'the newbies shouldn't get it for free because I worked hard for it' is a tired and old argument, but it seems to be new over here now that the noose is starting to loosen a bit. You did it going uphill both ways in the snow, and because of it you were a Rank 50 Cybermancysmithcleaver far before I even hit level 20 Dirtclod. Now new folks will not have to worry about getting that training. This is the way of things.
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11-08-2011, 02:32 PMMANTASTICI've read from a few places training manuals are not working, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
Rather than cry about your efforts going to waste, consider the big picture. A pointless system is being removed from the game. Training manuals were less of a reward and more of a punishment if you lacked them. Advancing levels of a craft opens up new recipes and makes older ones easier, if you don't think thats a reward...Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
http://hahnemannkiaawaz.com/wp-conte...ying-baby3.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
You're playing an MMO during what at best can be termed its "formative year," or at worse "premium beta." Its why you're not being charged right now. If you didn't expect shit to change, I'll kindly ask you to continue crying.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
A) It has already been stated multiple times by SE that guild marks are on their way out and that B) players WILL be compensated for the guild marks they spent. When and how said compensation will be implemented remains to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterSkyblue
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11-08-2011, 11:16 PMAleczanThank you for your informative answer. I appreciate the information. Didn't know these before. To know that we will get compensation is a big relief.Quote:
Originally Posted by MANTASTIC
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11-09-2011, 03:56 AMtymora
I thought they mentioned the manuals will be re-used for other purposes.
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11-09-2011, 05:31 AMMANTASTICThey said the manuals might be used again later:Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Triairy
I'm not personally counting on seeing a return of the books; they'd be difficult to implement in any way that doesn't punish the player for lacking them. The only thing I could think of to do with them is make getting HQ items easier or something if you have the appropriate books, and that probably won't mean much after the 1.20 HQ changes roll around. -
11-09-2011, 10:53 PMCupDeNoodles
I've been trying to skill up on wildfowl fletchings, current level 18, and I've been failing using both craftsmanship & magic craftsmanship. I would have moments where I would get nothing but successes on both but more often than not I would fail miserably using either set.
If every recipe uses either craftsmanship or magic craftsmanship than I should have seen some benefit from using a craftsmanship or magic craftsmanship set. Why am I failing miserably using both sets?
Either this hypothesis is bogus or something else is factoring in to the equation. -
11-10-2011, 02:55 AMtymora
WildFowl fletchings are L26 recipe so you are attempting something 8 ranks above.
Fletchings appear to be Magic.
I do not know what you are wearing but from my experience, I would recommend a Magic Craftsmanship value of around 50 to get a good success rate.
I generally find "2 x Recipe Level" to be a good ballpark number for recommended craftsmanship. This would be the value which gives you a pretty good success rate and the occasional +20 progress on success and +10 progress on fail.
This is also more or less the "can watch TV while spamming Standard" value. -
11-10-2011, 06:44 AMCupDeNoodles
Interesting, problem is, I don't think there is enough gear at my current level that would allow me to even get close to 50 magic craftsmanship. This is including drinking orange juice too.
Maybe I'm mistaken but those kinda stats, 50+, don't really appear until later levels.
Dated Cotton Robe +5
Dodoskin Skullcap (black) +10
Dated Elm Pattens +6
orange juice +5
Total 26
Some of those can't even be found anymore because of them being dated. Materia is weak too at this level. The best I can do is +1 on main tool.
I think the biggest problem plaguing crafting right now is that there simply aren't any recipes that you can bridge together. Take for instance the path that I planned out for weaver.
rope belt 17
straw hat 20
Wildfowl Fletchings 26
Dew thread 30
Woolen Yarn 40
Undyed Woolen Cloth 50
If I want to go with the path that saves Gil than I forced to craft with 10 level gaps.
The way I see it is they either introduce more gear you can get, increase materia stats or introduce more simple recipes to bridge. If the system is 'working as intended' than one has to wonder what the devs were thinking not having at least adequate crafting gear.
I have two choices, bridge with expensive time consuming recipes or simply keep blowing up crystals all the way to 50. -
11-10-2011, 07:10 AMtymora
You need to add the stats from your tool as well.
Dated Hedgemole Needle gives +19 magical which will put you at 45.
Dated Elm Spinning Wheel gives +33 magical which will put you way over 50.
Try using the appropriate spinning wheel and it may become doable.
The level has changed for these.Quote:
Woolen Yarn 40
Undyed Woolen Cloth 50
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11-12-2011, 08:29 PMCupDeNoodles
Ok, here we go again. I'm now level 20 and still making fletchings. It is utterly ridiculous how freaking random this is.
I was level 19 with about 5k left before 20. I was doing really well for that last 5k, I believe I failed two time for that whole 5k. I got level 20 then had to stop to collect more feathers. I get back to Ul'dah to start back up again and the madness begins. I start failing going 3/10.
Now please, someone explain to me how with 55 magic craftsmanship I kept failing over and over? I shit you not, one attempt I ended with two success and six fails. I gained more magic craftsmanship when I hit 20 so how the hell did it get worse overall? Am I missing something here?
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!
I understand randomness but this is plain retarded. Does gear mean nothing?
EDIT:
I've figured it out. When I switched from a Bat Fang Needle to a Brass Needle I lost 2 control. I re-equipped the Bat Fang Needle and saw some improvement. I took it a step forward and replaced my head peace which was +10 magic craftsmanship with a +4 control and ate a tuna kabob instead of using pineapple juice.
It went from horrible to good. It seems a healthy mix of control and magic craftsmanship or craftsmanship is the way to go. I still would go with more craftsmanship than control but control makes the difference. -
11-13-2011, 01:48 PMtymora
Another tip for you. When using food, use the cheapest. There is no point in going for a particular (more expensive) food unless you can activate the bonus effect. This applies until the patch that will change the food system.
You can make Grilled Carp for yourself instead of buying Kabobs for example and the effect will be the same.
Control:
Grilled Carp
Braised Pipira
Tree Toad Legs
Boiled Crayfish
Grilled Trout
Boiled Bream
Salmon Meuniere
Lava Toad Legs
Tuna Miq'abob
Baked Sole
Eel Pie
Mugwort Carp
Salt Cod Puffs
Stuffed Cabbage
Craftsmanship:
Boiled Egg
Mustard Eggs
Dodo Omelette
Deviled Eggs
M. Craftsmanship:
Mineral Water
Orange Juice
Pineapple Juice
Chamomile Tea
Apple Juice
Mulled Tea
Forest Miq'abob