I haven't seen any mention of it since it was removed, but I remember reading (link) that Stat Allocation was coming back on a per-class basis in 1.20.
Is that still the case? The total lack of recent mention of this has me wondering.
We're getting stat allocation back in 1.20, right?
Printable View
-
11-05-2011, 03:18 PMMisteyesWe're getting stat allocation back in 1.20, right?
-
11-05-2011, 03:47 PMkensredemption
I sure hope so.
-
11-05-2011, 03:48 PMDreadnought
God i hope so.
Stats really do matter now and my MRD just isnt stated the way i think he should be so i cant wait! -
11-05-2011, 06:53 PMnibelunc
Make it optional. I like it as it is now.
-
11-05-2011, 07:06 PMStufoo
You're getting merit points as you level now, it's not the same as the old allocation system.
You will have the same baseline stats that you have now but it's going to let you specialize in the role you want to play.
Think of it like two or three free stat materias. -
11-05-2011, 07:23 PMShneibel
no vote from me, and I agree with the reply above me
-
11-05-2011, 07:28 PMBetelgeuzahI think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stufoo
-
11-05-2011, 11:03 PMAntaniasThis sounds more likely :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
-
11-05-2011, 11:10 PMCoglin
I agree, I sure hope so, I can't stand not having the ability to build and play my character "my way". I mean I am okay if it doesn't happen in 1.20 as long as it happens by 1.21......but......the sooner the better.
-
11-05-2011, 11:14 PMStufooIt would be completely idiotic of them to switch it back, it was always an impossible to balance system. You can't have that large of a variation between possible allotments without either nullifying the effect of any +stat bonuses or invalidating the freedom of choice that you're supposedly given.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Let's look at how it used to be, with stats so wildly useless that you really didn't see a change in mitigation from 110 VIT to 174 VIT, it was just for HP purposes.
Now consider, that the game is balanced around the idea that any tank is able to survive and hold hate no matter what his stats were (which is what the allocation system was). This destroys the incentive to improve yourself through gear because nothing will ever give a noticeable effect to your "effectiveness". DDs just wore plate because it gave damage cuts they didn't care about +8 str from haub or +2 str from penance because you couldn't see it having any effect whatsoever.
Now consider, option two, that you need to have so much VIT to survive against this boss, or that monster. Why even give people the choice to mess it up? Why erase the baseline of stats and create more confusion? There's absolutely no reason to support that (which is why we have the stat system we have now). It would just end up destroying the possibility of what the class can do. Imagine a CNJ who put all of his allotment into INT because it is required to be able to nuke this monster, and is now no longer able to cure well, or a GLA/MRD who has very little VIT so he is just absolutely incapable of mitigation. It was very annoying pre-1.19 to join a party with a GLA who was a crafter so he had 0 str and 0 vit allotted so he was missing half his blocks with a scutum and had the lowest hp in the entire party. If everyone HAS to use a certain setup then just make it uniform for the class.
A baseline stat system based on level and job, combined with an additional merit system on top of it is the way to go at the moment. You know what to expect of that class at that level, at the very least they will be able to perform. You will never have a full STR/VIT GLA or PLD who just can not cure themselves at all because they have no MND or PIE. There won't be Lancers who die in one hit because they want the biggest numbers in existence and did a billion STR. A merit system will allow you to customize towards the role you want to excel in, and the baseline protects you from failing to balance yourself. If you are a DD marauder, you would go for STR, if you are a tanking MRD you'd go VIT, nuking CNJ would go INT and primarily healing CNJ would go MND. Remember, these are effectively bonuses on top of the stats they already have so they will never be able to not do something just because points aren't available. As I said, just think of this as a couple of extra stat materia bonuses.
On the same note though, you can allow gear bonuses to be more powerful. What good is Penance +2 str going to do in the old system if you could just choose, at any time you wanted, to have more str? You could choose to have 174 if you wanted and you still couldn't see a difference in your performance. It completely dwarfs the +2 str from the belt so who in the world would ever care? Now, +stats aren't so readily available and they can carry more weight so you are rewarded for getting any upgrades you can, whether through materia, gear upgrades, or this merit bonus system.
You can see the difference in physical mitigation with a single +20 VIT materia, pre-1.19 VIT did nothing at all even if you had 230 of it.
Seriously, why would you even want the old system back? It was horrible beyond belief. -
11-05-2011, 11:25 PMBetelgeuzahIt's no concern because of this fact:Quote:
Let's look at how it used to be, with stats so wildly useless that you really didn't see a change in mitigation from 110 VIT to 174 VIT, it was just for HP purposes.
Everything else fixes itself. If you die in one hit bigger numbers mean nothing, and you will do no damage while dead. So to min/max you aren't going to bottleneck yourself like that.Quote:
I think it will be exactly the same allocation system we had before, except now it is class specific.
-
11-05-2011, 11:29 PMCoglin
I find it funny that one would think its "idiotic" to give us free reign of our own stats, in a game based on free reign. Thats the whole concept behind the armory system and many aspects of this game, is that it is intended to be alot more open in a manner to be less restricting to players then the MMO mainstream.
-
11-05-2011, 11:32 PMJinko
Personally I'm happy with what we have and don't see the need for additional stat allotment considering that we have materia.
Hopefully if they are considering to still bring it back there will be an auto allocate button. -
11-05-2011, 11:33 PMBetelgeuzahYou do realize that will gimp you right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
-
11-05-2011, 11:35 PMStufooNothing fixes itself because we've already tried that system and it didn't work at all. Read what I wrote; You can't have that large of a variation between possible allotments without either nullifying the effect of any +stat bonuses or invalidating the freedom of choice that you're supposedly given. Period. It didn't work so they got rid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Do you really think they'd come up with this new system just to use it for A SINGLE PATCH?
You do have free reign over your own stats, now the bottom end is a bit higher and the bonuses aren't as big, but point for point the impact is much higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
-
11-05-2011, 11:35 PMJinkoExplain how ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
It's not going to be like before where stats are static across all classes.
We basically have auto allocated stats now, are we all gimped ? -
11-05-2011, 11:37 PMArcellI think they said before (can't find the source >.<) that there will be fewer points than before but they'll make an actual difference this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
-
11-05-2011, 11:37 PMBetelgeuzahIf you let the game allocate the stats for you, you will end up with having PIE allocated for your WAR instead of STR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
-
11-05-2011, 11:43 PMVawn
I can't believe so many people want that old system back. That stat allocation system was horrible. Why bother wearing gear with an extra +5 STR when you can just change your stats to add +40? There was so much wrong with that system, I don't know where to begin.
-
11-05-2011, 11:45 PMJinko/sigh /sigh /sighQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Do you really think thats what I meant ? -
11-05-2011, 11:48 PMJennestia
It was a pretty broken system, like almost everything related to XIV on launch because they weren't fully realized or optimized systems.
Maplestory/sea does auto allocation on a class by class basis properly, so they can do it properly in XIV too if they so wished, but it seems a lot of people are touchy about 'freedom' wish is what got XIV in a bad place balance wise to begin with, because SE wanted to give players a bit too much freedom that it couldn't be balanced.
I believe when they stated we'll get it back it will still have class specific level up stats and a bit of extra points on level up, kind of like how in XI throughout your pre 75 career you get auto stats on level up then post 75 you get points to specifically spend on certain attributes. -
11-05-2011, 11:50 PMBetelgeuzahThey didn't come up with a "new system". They temporarily removed the allocation feature because it wasn't ready to be used in this new environment. We aren't going back to pre-1.19 just because it comes back.Quote:
Do you really think they'd come up with this new system just to use it for A SINGLE PATCH?
It's mind-blowing how many people fail to understand how this system functions.
Who the hell knows really. You are making little sense.Quote:
/sigh /sigh /sigh
Do you really think thats what I meant ?
-
11-05-2011, 11:51 PMWynnQuote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
I'm just curious what makes you believe that other than your own personal wish for it to be that way? Did Yoshi ever say this? As far as I know, they said one thing. That stat allocation would be coming back but it would be class specific. -
11-05-2011, 11:53 PMJinkoOr is it you're not intelligent enough to understand .. /poutsQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
-
11-05-2011, 11:56 PMBetelgeuzahWell excuse me for assuming that by "auto allocation" you meant the game automatically allocating the stats for you, as it currently does. Instead of God knows what you really meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
It would be nice to know what you're thinking, but as I am just a mere human you need to be able to communicate your thoughts properly for us to understand them. -
11-05-2011, 11:57 PMEtheosI remember seeing something to this effect as well. You are not losing it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Misteyes
-
11-05-2011, 11:59 PMJinkoI meant it auto allocates the stats based on the class you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
So optimal allocation .. basically what we current have at the moment.
This way people who want it are happy, people who don't are happy. -
11-06-2011, 12:04 AMBetelgeuzahYeah I get it now. The point is that the system is not going to be optimal for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
Auto-allocation = the game distributes the stats however it wishes. This is what we have now.
Manual allocation (back in 1.20) = we are given stat points to distribute however we like for each class separately. This will be the optimal way.
The current system is only optimal because we can't affect our stats directly. That will change in 1.20. -
11-06-2011, 12:08 AMJinkoPerhaps, which goes back to what I originally said about not needing it because we have materia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Hopefully its only a handful of points so that its basically like having an extra materia equipped. -
11-06-2011, 12:11 AMBetelgeuzahWe don't "need" any customization options. That's kind of a silly argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
-
11-06-2011, 12:15 AMJinkoI DID not say that, I said we don't need "any more" customisation options. -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Why am I arguing with you ? -
11-06-2011, 12:17 AMJennestiaWhich is basically the same thing as merit points from XI, while you had the ability to allocate to anything within means, you had to be specific jobs in order to allocate to certain categories, for example a warrior couldn't allocate to magic skills, and a Black Mage couldn't allocate to Healing magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
That's realistically the only way it could be class specific, by locking out what can and cannot be allocated to, since we already have a specific growth automatically on a class by class basis. -
11-06-2011, 12:20 AMBetelgeuzahWhich makes just as little sense. That's an achievement I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
I said we have never "needed" customization options. Then you counter that by saying we don't need "any more" customisation options.... well, duh, when we didn't "need" any in the first place I'm sure we don't need any more either.
How can you be so confused? -
11-06-2011, 12:20 AMJinko
Jennistia I think what he saying is that each class gets its own pool of stat allocation which are seperate from each other.
This is how I would imagine it to work also, not like it did in 11.
@ Betelgeuzah, Sure thing dude !! /thumbs up -
11-06-2011, 12:45 AMviion
if you bring it backyou are just going to mess up balance and i dont think the devs want to deal with the possibility that some tank might have 150vit and another have 250vit.
A whm would ignore int all together and go full mnd with tiny bit of pie, sounds good but it becomes over powered.
I think a little freedom such as the skills we get from guilds or merit type system be ok, but being able to pound in 50-100 points into 1 stat is dumb, makes gear pointless. -
11-06-2011, 01:35 AMFerth
Frankly I'm glad I don't have to worry about where to put what stats right now.. and if I want to alter my stats a bit I can do it through traits and through gear/materia.
If it stays this way I'd be happy. -
11-06-2011, 01:41 AMDalmore
I say the system works fine how it is currently and doesnt need to be changed. I mean why go back to a system even remotely like it was? its gonna hurt all classes for example on my pgl. i would have either all points str,dex or all points strmdex some vit to not be a glass cannon. but then my mp is low for abilities and my mnd is low for 2nd wind. or i put points in mnd,pie and gimp my dmg. ><
KEEP IT AUTO ALLOCATE PLEASE SE. -
11-06-2011, 01:51 AMArcellAuto-allocation does not negate this issue. The only difference between manual and automatic point allocation is that with manual you actually have to think for yourself, at least until someone posts up the optimal cookie-cutter build for your role. In my opinion the only advantage automatic allocation has is that it's easier for the devs to balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalmore
If I recall correctly though, we're really getting the best of both worlds with 1.20. Automatic allocation will still exist but we'll get bonus points on top of that. -
11-06-2011, 02:05 AMDalmoreTrue but im saying is it'll mess up the balance.. ok pgl for example uses mp for LS and pum, and pre 1.19 we would run out of mp quick. pgl is DD yea? well we will focus str,dex and kinda vit for "our stats" well now we have no mp, no mnd for 2nd wind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
no mp for cures, no mp for in combat raise.
Or we can put points into pie and mnd so we can heal,use abilities without going oom, and be gimped on our dmg output. I mean seriosuly does pgl need anymore reason to not get invites for a party? (off topic qq) -
11-06-2011, 02:12 AMArcellThat particular issue is deeper than just point allocation though. It stems from Pugilist needing way more MP than any other War class and not having a reliable means of regenerating it. If Second Wind just did HP+MP generation, there wouldn't be as much of a problem. Why it comes from Featherfoot is beyond me, and you have to evade to get the MP if I'm not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalmore
With the new allocation system you get bonus points. Generally this means that you're not losing anything by placing these where you need them. Need MP? Allocate a point or two accordingly. Want to do a little more damage? Put some points into Strength. The skeleton of the build is there in the automatic allocation we have now. Bonus allocation allows you to flesh that out a bit depending on your play style.