Palace of the Dead is overall disappointing

So, it does tend to remind me of Diadem. You go around killing monsters, and every 10th floor you fight a stronger monster (a boss).

What happened after 30 floors, doing matched groups, is that the new strategy was to skip as many monsters as possible, killing only those necessary to open chests. The most popular strategy, just as it was in Diadem, was to ignore as much of the content as possible while still reaping the rewards you're seeking; this is because, just at it was in Diadem, it's the only way to cut through the immense tedium of the content.

Everything about PotD progression is obnoxious. Replaying the leveling process of your class isn't fun; it's just tedious. Finding silver chests isn't fun; this effectively gates your ability to progress via RNG rather than anything the player is doing. Why SE thought it'd be a good idea to have the amount of silver chests be RNG, and then on top of that have whether or not you get a + to your weapon/armor out of it also be RNG, is beyond me. This is just a slow and painful process.

But why is it a slow and painful process? What determines if a process is slow?

The rewards.

Going through 50 floors of this dungeon takes about 3 hours depending on RNG (love that RNG based progress). What you ultimately get out of it is a level 5 materia per run.

Beyond that, there's the weapon rewards. You get an i235 weapon, but acquiring it comes down to, again, RNG. You need to reach 30/30 on your aether gear, which means running the dungeon multiple times. So if you thought replaying the leveling process on fast forward was fun the first time, then you can look forward to resetting your data and doing it all over again, and most likely again after that, before you get your weapon.

The ability for SE to not understand the difference between fun and tedious has become astounding; this is further exemplified by talks of this dungeon receiving and additional 150 floors in the future. The idea of this dungeon being 300% longer makes me want to drive my head through my wall.

I for one love deep dungeon. Traps. Monsters. Pomanders. There is so many new things that they gave us to experiment with. I enjoy getting to play my classes again and the joy of unlocking different skills at a fast pace. Yes it's a grind for the weapon. I've already done five clears and still don't have one but I enjoy the content enough that I don't mind. Overall I'd say deep dungeon is great!

...and you couldn't post it in one of the already existing threads about qq-ing on new content?

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Originally Posted by Shikiseki

...and you couldn't post it in one of the already existing threads about qq-ing on new content?

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I checked the front page; there were no existing threads about PotD being disappointing.

Coming into a thread to snark about how it shouldn't exist doesn't accomplish anything other than derailing or crapping up the thread. If you don't like a thread, or think it shouldn't exist, you can ignore it. That's the point of the format.

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Originally Posted by Destous

I checked the front page; there were no existing threads about PotD being disappointing.

Coming into a thread to snark about how it shouldn't exist doesn't accomplish anything other than derailing or crapping up the thread. If you don't like a thread, or think it shouldn't exist, you can ignore it. That's the point of the format.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...h-Deep-Dungeon

hit New Posts (all) - was on first page

I too think that the Palace of the Dead is disappointing, but I've only gone up to floor 30. The only reward worth mentioning is an alternate way to get a high level weapon instead of having to go through a month of grinding tomes or doing savage raids. However, the Palace of the Dead never feels like I'm really making any progress. The silver chests often leave me with disappointment as I get nothing from them. The only reward I get from clearing 10 floors is a tiny amount of tomes. The only thing that feels like it is making the Palace of the Dead hard are the exploding traps and slimes because they one hit kill you or almost one hit kill you.

Calls it slow meanwhile ppl got their weapons after 1-2 days you can do it solo to have a bit of a challenge. Also they will add more floors compared to diadem its way better since you can do it alone level alts/test skills on alts etc. Did you ever thought about not rushing it all the time? no one expect you later to clear all 200 floors in 1 day. People go in full party with a healer faceroll then complain GG. If you dont need to level classes etc. just go do nidhogg to get ur weapon but oh yea that requires you time too.

I like PotD at the moment. Yes it can be boring when you try to spam it, but i think that we only have the basic ground work to play with currently. This place has a lot of potential and i hope SE will realize it in future updates.

I like it for leveling jobs. Daily leveling + trial roulette + PotD 1-10 spam = fast leveling

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I like it for leveling jobs. Daily leveling + trial roulette + PotD 1-10 spam = fast leveling

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I really want to use it for leveling, but it seems almost impossible to do. I constantly run into groups who will gladly wipe the whole run because they didn't get enough items they wanted, people who will kick you just because they died when they ran three rooms away, and other insane BS. It just winds up taking way more time to finish the bloody thing than grinding out an equal amount of exp with leves does.

What I hate the most are the upgrades, and people, and how the progress and saves work.

First of all, your progress is only saved every 10 floors, so if you get DC'd, or people quit before the boss, or people kick you, it's fine, you just wasted a good amount of your time for absolutely NOTHING.

You only have 2 saves, and fixed parties are locked to the member you choose before the first floor, if you try to get a pre-made they can simply remove you from the party when you're on floor 40 for no reason. Also there's the way to create parties with matched, but 4 people, and then you loose all your poms every boss.

The upgrades, argh the upgrades. They will make it drop from earlier chests with a small chance, but it's awful. First of all people thing they are dependent of your level and want to clear every mob on the dungeon, really annoying. People are bitching that you open chests away from them, but the effects are always global. Also when you get matched with people that need upgrade from the earlier floors they can be really annoying and even kick you on floors ending with 8-9 if you say "but killing everything is not going to help" or "no need to clear rooms to get golden or potions if the key is unlocked". The best part is when you queue with people with good upgrades, but they don't know what they're doing, or they believe in the level = upgrades BS or they want the poms that will be lost in 2 floors.

Tired of being kicked for trying to reason with these people, you try to be nice and explain how things work and they simply kick you and you wasted all your time.

Tried it 1x solo, went a few floors. I'd go again if I could take my companion to heal me otherwise, not going period because I am not pugging with people that leave or act like jerks.

Destous-
I agree with you 1000%! I'm so upset with how terribly boring and tedious PotD turned out to be. My idea for a quick fix: after clearing the 50 floors, you get two options: clear your data and start back at lvl1 floor 1, or, the 2nd option: the ability to farm floors 41-50 with your class and lvl from the clear file only. There is zero reason for SE to make us waste 2-4 hours going back through floors 1-40, when we get zero rewards/upgrades in doing so. #ggSE!

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Originally Posted by Elijahshane

I for one love deep dungeon. Traps. Monsters. Pomanders. There is so many new things that they gave us to experiment with. I enjoy getting to play my classes again and the joy of unlocking different skills at a fast pace. Yes it's a grind for the weapon. I've already done five clears and still don't have one but I enjoy the content enough that I don't mind. Overall I'd say deep dungeon is great!

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How much did SE pay you for this blatant lie? There's zero fun to be had in the Deep Bland Dungeons. #ggSE

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Originally Posted by Destous

I checked the front page; there were no existing threads about PotD being disappointing.

Coming into a thread to snark about how it shouldn't exist doesn't accomplish anything other than derailing or crapping up the thread. If you don't like a thread, or think it shouldn't exist, you can ignore it. That's the point of the format.

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I love you ❤! Best response ever!

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Originally Posted by Micromage

How much did SE pay you for this blatant lie? There's zero fun to be had in the Deep Bland Dungeons. #ggSE

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So he is a liar because you don't have any fun in there? Interesting. If you don't like it, don't run it.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

So he is a liar because you don't have any fun in there? Interesting. If you don't like it, don't run it.

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Fantastic advice, but already doing that. Trash content is simply that, and not worth my time. But please don't pretend like you're having fun in there. That sends SE the wrong message. Be truthful so they can fix that dull, tedious, mess of a dungeon crawl. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Micromage

Fantastic advice, but already doing that. Trash content is simply that, and not worth my time. But please don't pretend like you're having fun in there. That sends SE the wrong message. Be truthful so they can fix that dull, tedious, mess of a dungeon crawl. Thanks!

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Ok Kiddo you speak for each and every FF player in the world, i see.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Ok Kiddo you speak for each and every FF player in the world, i see.

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Never claimed I was. So there ya go

Basically this is the ffxi version of nyzul isle if you ever did that you had to communicate with your team to advance the next floor the only thing that sucks is costant trash killing but the part you turn into monsters and use items is cool its just content thats going to die in a month and no its not diadem its a lil different.

I think deep dungeon needs more puzzles and objectives per floor..also a better reward. Minions and mounts are ok but how bout armor with great stats , like enmity -5, magic attack bonus,etc. Make the rewards worthwhile and content more engaging. It's got a great base they just need to expand on it a bit ^^;

Except here people are hurting their own progress by skipping stuff. Mobs melt and it's pretty common to see as many upgrades from mob chests as the rest when you don't skip stuff.

I naturally like the style of PotD. I loved Nyzul Isle in FF11, which this reminds me a lot of. As it is right now, this is bare bones content, and I would like to see it get some more TLC. Adding puzzle floors, 1 way door traps, more varying monsters, and difficult bosses, and possibly adding a full party re-raise pomander in case of the random wipe to let people continue if it all goes to crap. Its not bad content, but its not great either, but it can be great if it gets some attention.

It's fun for what it is, but everyone knows what could be done to improve it. Things like: adding an item shop, puzzles, area hazards, secret paths, removing or extending the timer, bigger areas to explore, stealth gameplay options, adding more options on way to handle enemy encounters such as laying bait or attacking difficult enemies from places they can't reach, and more varied boss fights like Bigsy and the slime from Copperbell mines. The only monotonous thing is how all of the content is just an almost constant stream of killing everything that moves in a more frantic manor since Heavensward, which totally burns me out over time, IMO.

Well, it's a fun distraction right now, but it's totally worth investing development into more content like this. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing some of the stuff above in the Black Shroud since there is just so much we haven't explored there, and everywhere else too. Thank you, staff!

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Originally Posted by Huskell

What I hate the most are the upgrades, and people, and how the progress and saves work.

First of all, your progress is only saved every 10 floors, so if you get DC'd, or people quit before the boss, or people kick you, it's fine, you just wasted a good amount of your time for absolutely NOTHING.

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Yeah, not saving after each floor is royally idiotic design in an ONLINE game where DCs and stuff can happen constantly.
Also, not being able to make one tiny mistake b/c if you die your last 30mins are gone.

Coupled with the retarded "level again" thing it's just plain not fun to solo.

In a group it's brain dead trivial. Did 1-50 in 2 hours or so.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Yeah, not saving after each floor is royally idiotic design in an ONLINE game where DCs and stuff can happen constantly.
Also, not being able to make one tiny mistake b/c if you die your last 30mins are gone.

Coupled with the retarded "level again" thing it's just plain not fun to solo.

In a group it's brain dead trivial. Did 1-50 in 2 hours or so.

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You have to level up again to prevent players from speed clearing via skipping most of the floor monsters.
The progress saves every 10 floors to prevent players from bailing after getting the bonus they needed.

Everything about PotD is designed so that players are discouraged from skipping the content. That is, everything except the actual content. SE knows that it's boring. SE knows that it's tedious. What SE doesn't understand is that tedium != challenging. If the challenge for the player is to continue playing towards the reward despite how much they dislike the content rather than from individual elements about that content being challenging to overcome, then you don't have challenging content. You have boring, tedious content. That's what PotD is; it's boring tedious content, and it's already become Diadem 2.5, and it'll be dead like Diadem in another month.

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Originally Posted by Destous

Everything about PotD is designed so that players are discouraged from skipping the content. That is, everything except the actual content. SE knows that it's boring..

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They are discouraging people from skipping the content to avoid people disrupting other players experiences, not because they wanted to make it tedious on purpose. This is just you're look on it, and most likely not the real reason for any of the actual design choices.

On DCing in POTD. You aren't kicked from the dungeon by the game if you dc but by your party. The only way to discourage kicking dcers would be to give more lenient time limits within POTD so waiting for a dcer to return isn't eating so fataly into your remaining time. That and don't use the duty finder, find some ls/fc mates to do it with. Which is pretty hard right now. Not saving every floor is pretty core to the entire design of POTD imo.

... *sigh*
Ok, I suppose i need to point out a few things @OP

First: Think of this as story mode Deep Dungeon. You know like the trials? Story mode is usually very easy. Remember what happened when a certain story-mode trial was hard?
On top of having a side-story attached to it, it's content that is meant to be accessible from LEVEL 17. Someone new to the game does not handle kickass mechanics as well as someone who got any job to 60 (although that can be arguable sometimes);

Furthermore, in case you haven't noticed you get the all 60 levels worth of skills in those 50 floors, which even if for me is a bit too quick, it lets you get somewhat acquainted with the skills (if you like to use new jobs you haven't got to max yet);

What exactly do you want? Extreme type of stuff for level 17 players / people who have no clue how a certain job works? That'll be super fun for them won't it. I don't know if you noticed but a MMORPG kinda needs to retain players for it to trive. ESPECIALLY if subscription based.

They have said they will add more floors with increased difficulty and so far they do tend to listen to feedback and have been fixing things, so don't throw Deep Dungeon under the bus yet. Give it time and we shall see. Instead I will be waiting for the next set of floors to see how it goes.

TLDR: This is just an introduction to Deep Dungeon. Take a chill pill, ya?

I really feel the devs for this particular part of the game would benefit from playing The binding of Isaac.
The monotony of samey floors in that was combated not only by floor wide affects which SE already use, but a multitude of other things.

Traps that seal off a room or that summon a boss.

Rotating bosses not just the same ones over and over.

Room events like the magic pot or find the right chest.

I dont think the dungeon is flawed per-se, its just we tend to eat up content in this game so damn fast that we need serious randomization or difficulty to keep our short attention spans. Like Diadem, that was great! Until youd done it 20 times.