Pet = 1 party member, 8 members total.

Instead of recalculating damage for a pet, make it an additional party member with an HP bar and target-able. Obviously an actual PC will always be better, but sometimes people DC or you can't find that 8th person. This would be a way to fill in the party.

Nobody has to be nerfed. 4 people can become an 8 man party, but an actual 8 man party will always be a better fit, because pet's don't fully fill in for a person.

This is too logical to implement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Instead of recalculating damage for a pet, make it an additional party member with an HP bar and target-able. Obviously an actual PC will always be better, but sometimes people DC or you can't find that 8th person. This would be a way to fill in the party.

Nobody has to be nerfed. 4 people can become an 8 man party, but an actual 8 man party will always be a better fit, because pet's don't fully fill in for a person.

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It makes no sense when you think of how a pet works. A class with a pet doesn't = two characters. Classes/jobs that have pet are weaker then the usual but make up for that with their pet so in the end it evens out. A class that uses a pet should be = to a class with no pets.... the way you are describing it then it would make classes with pets super gods in PVP.

But how does that solve solo situations?

That would take a bite out of the awesomeness of having a unique chocobo companion who can fight. I'll pass this idea. At least I'll give you credit for thinking outside the box.

PVP would be ether single person (pets are a 1+ to a party so you cant call them) or party PVP up to 8 people. 2 PC vs 1 person and a pet, the two actual players are better. Why are we talking about PVP? this isnt even in the game currently and its going to be a optional thing for fun.

Everybody can have a pet whether its a NPC companion, chocobo, dragon, er goobie?, <insert your favorite thing>. You can only call 1 at a time and it is a +1 to a party.

Different pets do different things, so depending on what job is needed in the party you can use a pet to fill in.
as an example

Drake/Dragon = Damage Doing pet

Chocobo = Damage + conditional healing pet (chocobo dance when a party member dips below 30% health)

Mog = party buffing + healing

companion = job class they are currently assigned

I don't want 8 people and 8 pets on screen at once that's so cluttered!

first of all, kind of selfish to want to constantly take up 2 spots in a party. second of all dragoons solo play would be way overpowered. that is all.

The idea to have a place in party stealed by something without a brain is bull****. How can you tell a pet to get out from radiant plum on ifrit ?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

The idea to have a place in party stealed by something without a brain it bull****. How can you tell a pet to get out from radiant plum on ifrit ?

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if you take a 7 man party in to an ifrit fight and summon a pet as the 8th you deserve to have it die
> :- D

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/dC...oqNxh_0K864kV0
Translation from Reinheart:
* The one without last name is each PC’s buddy
* 1 buddy can be called per P, if there are 2 PC and they call their buddies can form a 4 player Light Party

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post427830

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

first of all, kind of selfish to want to constantly take up 2 spots in a party. second of all dragoons solo play would be way overpowered. that is all.

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I feel like your missing the point. Everyone will have some sort of companion/pet. Dragoons will just be the only ones that can use Dragons as a pet. Nobody expects you to use your pet in a party. IF another player can't be found you can use a pet as a fill in. If a Dragoon is in the party you have the option to use a dragoon as a pet instead of just a chocobo or companion.

That's cool, it' the idea " i don't want to be nerfed because i have a pet, so i want an overpower job with an overpower pet who count as a people" to be bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

If a Dragoon is in the party you have the option to use a dragoon as a pet instead of just a chocobo or companion.

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Hmm, a Dragoon as pet/slave? I like it :)
Chocobos would be seen as party member, because everybody would have a chocobo.
Don't think the same could be with job exclusive pets

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

if you take a 7 man party in to an ifrit fight and summon a pet as the 8th you deserve to have it die
> :- D

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Lol I was just about to post this. What the op says is actually reflected here. I like the idea of pets taking up a party spot. I for one would like drg to have a pet, but if you don't need that party member, dont use the pet, this way you wouldn't have to nerf drgs power. Also a pet with a well developed AI can be just as good as having another player, especially if the original player has control, it's can make for some beastly tactical combos. In this sense I'm actually in favor of pets having separate levels from your character.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felis

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/dC...oqNxh_0K864kV0
Translation from Reinheart:
* The one without last name is each PC’s buddy
* 1 buddy can be called per P, if there are 2 PC and they call their buddies can form a 4 player Light Party

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post427830

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O.O oh hell yeah. Thank you for finding that info Felis!

So in 8 member party scenarios you're asking a beastmaster to play without a beast pet, a summoner not to use summons. While your at it just tell the whm not to cure, and the bard not to use songs.


No. Just no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

The idea to have a place in party stealed by something without a brain is bull****. How can you tell a pet to get out from radiant plum on ifrit ?

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Simply add a shift click feature for moving your pet. This would be a problem for gamepad users, but I'm sure there's some way to map pet shift movement to the controls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Instead of recalculating damage for a pet, make it an additional party member with an HP bar and target-able. Obviously an actual PC will always be better, but sometimes people DC or you can't find that 8th person. This would be a way to fill in the party.

Nobody has to be nerfed. 4 people can become an 8 man party, but an actual 8 man party will always be a better fit, because pet's don't fully fill in for a person.

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in your theory:

4 ppl + 4 pet = 8 men pt and cant add more player and always 8 source dmg

in the current develope system

4 ppl + 4 pet = 4 men pt and can add more, which lead to 8 ppl + 8 pet = 16 source of dmg

which is better ?

the quote under is a problem as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

So in 8 member party scenarios you're asking a beastmaster to play without a beast pet, a summoner not to use summons. While your at it just tell the whm not to cure, and the bard not to use songs.


No. Just no.

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+1 for no vote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

So in 8 member party scenarios you're asking a beastmaster to play without a beast pet, a summoner not to use summons. While your at it just tell the whm not to cure, and the bard not to use songs.


No. Just no.

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OK I'm getting frustrated with you people. If your a Summoner you COULD keep your pet out nobody is saying you dont get to use it. It's at the discretion of the party. It would be implied that a summoner is useless without a pet, so a summon would be more powerful than a Chocobo that everyone has. People would want you to use your pet.

what is happening in this thread right now is what would happen if they did that

but they ARE doing that. So try to understand how it works ; ;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

OK I'm getting frustrated with you people. If your a Summoner you COULD keep your pet out nobody is saying you dont get to use it. It's at the discretion of the party. It would be implied that a summoner is useless without a pet, so a summon would be more powerful than a Chocobo that everyone has. People would want you to use your pet.

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A PC will always be better tactically than a NPC because PCs can think where as AI cant, The only way this would work is if you make the pets more powerful than the PCs, then you would be locking out all none pet jobs from any content.

hmmm. A summoner without a summon is not the same as a dragoon without a dragon. Summoner (which isn't even a job yet so this is theoretical) is much weaker without a pet out.... They would have to have be the most powerful pet to compensate for this. Additionally they would need to greatly increase the power of the party they are in as a buffing class so that it would be desirable to invite them, over say 2 other players. It's doable just tricky.

I am thinking that there might be a distinction between pets and "buddies". a buddy being a combat mount possibly the players path companion. Pets being something that is native to the pet class/job.

I.e
Two people are out duoing for xp, they decide that it might be best to call out there buddy's for the lite bonus and a bit of extra fire power so they can kill more monsters quicker.

A beast tamer or summoner can call out a pet but it is an extension of the player. I would think that the classes would already be balanced around the idea that there would be an external damage source no party slot would be taken up in this instance. Otherwise pet classes in general would be excluded from popular events.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Simply add a shift click feature for moving your pet. This would be a problem for gamepad users, but I'm sure there's some way to map pet shift movement to the controls.

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And during you move your pet to a safe spot your dragoon die.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

hmmm. A summoner without a summon is not the same as a dragoon without a dragon. Summoner (which isn't even a job yet so this is theoretical) is much weaker without a pet out.... They would have to have be the most powerful pet to compensate for this. Additionally they would need to greatly increase the power of the party they are in as a buffing class so that it would be desirable to invite them, over say 2 other players. It's doable just tricky.

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If they did this then there would be a SMN onry until it was nerfed because the pet would have to be 2x as strong as any PC to compensate loosing 2 places or SMN will never get invites, it will end up like SMN in ffxi, either it would be all summoners and nothing else (AF burns) or SMN will be soloing all the way, and never get asked to come SMN for any endgame. This would be especially bad for BST and DRG (if BST comes) because you have the damage of the pet and the DD.

I admit its not as bad for SMN, but if they have a role in a party it could work for them, but BST and DRG would be broken and nothing else used, and dont even talk about solo play, because if wyverns were implemented similar to FFXI, where they could heal, DRG would beable to solo everything.

I think talking about final fantasy 11 detracts from an argument personally. I try not to bring that game up as a response to new ideas as much as possible. But I do feel a dragon for a Dragoon would be better as a "buddy" than a pet. It's a good compromise.
the other arguments about summoner and beast master (which arent even jobs yet) is a grey area. I still think it can be done the same way they are planning on doing "buddies" with chocobos in that example for 2.0. It just requires careful balancing.

I kind of like this idea, although it does get a bit dicey when talking about BST and SMN.

For example the PC would actually be the useless player, considering and im assuming the majority of the damage would be coming from the pet.

Do pets have their own level up system if so its going to be just like FF11 where people didn't want to party with BST because the pet stole the XP's lol

If pets don't have their own level system, does the person with the pet get double xp lol ?
Does the pet get no XP ?

How will all this work :S ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

I think talking about final fantasy 11 detracts from an argument personally. I try not to bring that game up as a response to new ideas as much as possible. But I do feel a dragon for a Dragoon would be better as a "buddy" than a pet. It's a good compromise.
the other arguments about summoner and beast master (which arent even jobs yet) is a grey area. I still think it can be done the same way they are planning on doing "buddies" with chocobos in that example for 2.0. It just requires careful balancing.

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This is speculation, but if as somone else said buddys are npcs we can all use and pets are job/class specific, like your path companion or mounts, it would defeat the object of giving DRG a wyvern because everyone would beable to use them, I know its just speculation but it is a reasonable argument, I do agree it should be differant to ffxi, but I was throwing it in there as a working, realistic example of how much it could break DRG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

I think talking about final fantasy 11 detracts from an argument personally. I try not to bring that game up as a response to new ideas as much as possible. But I do feel a dragon for a Dragoon would be better as a "buddy" than a pet. It's a good compromise.
the other arguments about summoner and beast master (which arent even jobs yet) is a grey area. I still think it can be done the same way they are planning on doing "buddies" with chocobos in that example for 2.0. It just requires careful balancing.

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while beast tamer and summoner are not in game, they are being slated. Yoshida is not exactly know for "talking out loud" when it comes to things like this.

but you are correct. thinking with in the frame work of xi is counter productive to the conversation at hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I kind of like this idea, although it does get a bit dicey when talking about BST and SMN.

For example the PC would actually be the useless player, considering and im assuming the majority of the damage would be coming from the pet.

Do pets have their own level up system if so its going to be just like FF11 where people didn't want to party with BST because the pet stole the XP's lol

If pets don't have their own level system, does the person with the pet get double xp lol ?
Does the pet get no XP ?

How will all this work :S ?

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well the way yoshida was talking in the gamerescape interview (i think)

beast tamer and summoner would work a lot like there counterparts in xi (yes i realize this is a bit contrary to what i just typed lol) . beast would use available monsters as pets and then be done with them. Summoner would gain additional ability to use with its summons as the player increased in level. But the balance between the pet and the master in terms of strength is something that there taking very very seriously. if they fubar it there is likely to be a repeat of the stigma that surrounded the pet jobs in xi.

Spread the word of the 'ignore poster function' :O

I think it could be convenient to be able to use a "pet" to fill a party slot, but of course the pet would not be as good as another player. I can see that being useful for smaller leveling parties especially.

Doesn't sound that strange to me, I believe in a certain upcoming MMO your "companions" will be able to take party slots but they are only like 60% (guessing here) of an actual player.

I agree it could be tricky to figure out how it would work for summoners/dragoons though. I think those would have to be treated differently than other players with their pet chocobos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fleur

I think it could be convenient to be able to use a "pet" to fill a party slot, but of course the pet would not be as good as another player. I can see that being useful for smaller leveling parties especially.

Doesn't sound that strange to me, I believe in a certain upcoming MMO your "companions" will be able to take party slots but they are only like 60% (guessing here) of an actual player.

I agree it could be tricky to figure out how it would work for summoners/dragoons though. I think those would have to be treated differently than other players with their pet chocobos.

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Donkey Knight serves this purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Instead of recalculating damage for a pet, make it an additional party member with an HP bar and target-able. Obviously an actual PC will always be better, but sometimes people DC or you can't find that 8th person. This would be a way to fill in the party.

Nobody has to be nerfed. 4 people can become an 8 man party, but an actual 8 man party will always be a better fit, because pet's don't fully fill in for a person.

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It's probably been said but according to the 2.0 Screenshot chocobo's will fill in a party slot and makes the 8th member in the party. Just didn't feel like reading all the way through it after I saw donkey posting her thread again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Instead of recalculating damage for a pet, make it an additional party member with an HP bar and target-able. Obviously an actual PC will always be better, but sometimes people DC or you can't find that 8th person. This would be a way to fill in the party.

Nobody has to be nerfed. 4 people can become an 8 man party, but an actual 8 man party will always be a better fit, because pet's don't fully fill in for a person.

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what if one or two players playing a pet class DC? Now you're down two or four members, from the one or two disconnects.

Buddies aren't pets. They're more like mercenaries in EQ. I assume a proper pet class would be balanced around having its pet and the pet would not take up a slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

if you take a 7 man party in to an ifrit fight and summon a pet as the 8th you deserve to have it die
> :- D

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Why, that exactly what your suggesting one do.

Your also trying to limits on classes (pet classes) because you appearently dislike them, thus want to ruin the experience for everyone.

Protip- Pet classes are comming, accept it, adapt to it, don't complain about it.

I miss the 5-member parties from XI...I'd like to see another epic alliance encounter in the likes of the Pandemonium Warden fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irondude

PVP would be ether single person (pets are a 1+ to a party so you cant call them) or party PVP up to 8 people. 2 PC vs 1 person and a pet, the two actual players are better. Why are we talking about PVP? this isnt even in the game currently and its going to be a optional thing for fun.

Everybody can have a pet whether its a NPC companion, chocobo, dragon, er goobie?, <insert your favorite thing>. You can only call 1 at a time and it is a +1 to a party.

Different pets do different things, so depending on what job is needed in the party you can use a pet to fill in.
as an example

Drake/Dragon = Damage Doing pet

Chocobo = Damage + conditional healing pet (chocobo dance when a party member dips below 30% health)

Mog = party buffing + healing

companion = job class they are currently assigned

I don't want 8 people and 8 pets on screen at once that's so cluttered!

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yoshida plans to have both class/job specific pets, as well as +1 pets that anyone can have ala chocobo. your idea is basicaly just canceling out pet class/jobs. i would have to say no, and i want my class pet as well as my +1 chocobo or companion thanks ;)