Your thoughts on queuing in DF with languages you don't understand / speak.

This is something I've started seeing more recently, and just wondering how prevalent it is, and what your thoughts are on this.

Even though I only select one language setting when I queue in DF, I sometimes get in a group with 1 or 2 people who do not understand that language at all.

By checking the Party List, I can see they have not selected it as a language they understand, and they cannot communicate with the group either.

Usually 6/8 people or 3/4 people will, indeed, have chosen that language as either the client language or one they understand. But the others will not have it chosen as one they understand. So, why did they select it when they queued for DF?

It's kind of tough for the group, because almost always, no one else in the group can understand them, so I have to translate. (Because I can speak their language).
(and 99% of the time, they don't even try to use the auto-translate feature...)

It's especially troublesome when, right before a boss, a DPS or healer says "hold on, be right back" and the tank and other player cannot understand that and begin to pull the boss.

Among my LS and FC mates, I've never seen anyone queue for a language they cannot understand.

Is this something that people do? Do they do it to get into a dungeon faster or is there some other reason?

And what are your thoughts on this?

Or is there some mechanic to the DF language settings when queuing that I am failing to understand?

Furthermore, why do you think we have the option to queue in DF for languages that we have not selected as languages we can understand (in the profile settings)?

So queue times aren't insanely long.

I know a lot of people do it on my server.
I don't think you should do it at all, especially if you're not going to use auto-translate. It's rude.

It's cool as long as we don't try to speak to each other. Then it's like we're in the Tower of Babel lol. Luckily few people talk in all the groups I've been in, so I guess I'm just lucky in that department. :p

We do it on Tonberry, since rest of data center is Japanese. Rarely any problems over here that I can tell.

If you know the auto-translate you don't need to know the languages.

(Please use the auto-translate function.)
(Gather together.)
(Full attack! )
(area of effect attack )
(I had fun today!)

but even mechanics are pretty simple to explain.

Ozma:
(Meteor), (left) and (rear).
(□), (tank) (left).
I think auto-translate is enough for 90% of the content.

I do it and if it becomes clear that there's a language barrier we've always managed with liberal use of auto-translate. That's exactly what auto-translate is for.

it's always fun in extreme mentor trials (obviously nobody knows the strategy either).

I que for all languages besides french.

1. Because I can't speak nor understand french, and they usually don't or refuse to speak english.
2. Because 90% of the french players I've been in a group with are terrible players. (no offence, I know there are good frenchies out there too :P)

Sooo ya :3

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

So queue times aren't insanely long.

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This sums up the thread

I'm gonna have to redact this. As I was saying, EU problems and English speaking players on Japanese data centers thinking that clicking English only is going to get their Duty Finder to pop. Just roll with it. Especially in dungeons where there's no need to be social unless for some reason the new player signature pops, and someone wants to be nice and explain things.

Auto Translations for the win.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

Auto Translations for the win.

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I would agree, if I could get it to work properly :(

I did in Phantasy Star online since I was familiar with with their in-game language translator and could respond quickly.

I'm pretty slow at it in this game so I don't bother going outside my native language.

It's not like anyone speaks outside of when someone messes up in a 24 man. All you get maybe is a hi, and ty.

You don't need to know any languages in-depth to do that.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

This is something I've started seeing more recently, and just wondering how prevalent it is, and what your thoughts are on this.

Even though I only select one language setting when I queue in DF, I sometimes get in a group with 1 or 2 people who do not understand that language at all.

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Beyond the initial {Hello}, people rarely talk in DF. Why purposely make your ques longer for the 2% chance of you running into someone that doesn't speak your native language and are wanting hold a conversation with you?

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

We do it on Tonberry, since rest of data center is Japanese. Rarely any problems over here that I can tell.

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Ha, the Japanese don't like it though, there's an insanely long thread on the jp forum complaining about foreigners selecting jp when they queue.

Personally I don't have a problem with it for easy content, or content you are confident in. But I do hate it when people queue for difficult content/things they have never cleared and obviously have no idea what to do, and then cannot even understand explanations when people give them! It's selfish and wastes everyone's time.

Also:
Wielders of the echo should understand every language in the world anyway.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Also:
Wielders of the echo should understand every language in the world anyway.

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That's only if you properly utilize the echo(Auto translate).

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

So, why did they select it when they queued for DF?

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Queue times, when you play DPs you can't afford to keep only your spoken languages :/

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

(and 99% of the time, they don't even try to use the auto-translate feature...)

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Well, the auto translate feature is really a great idea but not the easier to use, sometimes, i spend a lot of time trying to find THAT word to translate it in spanish or deutsche.....and finally i give up cause i won't ask people to wait for me to find it :/

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

It's especially troublesome when, right before a boss, a DPS or healer says "hold on, be right back" and the tank and other player cannot understand that and begin to pull the boss.

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Well most of the time they can but they won't xD

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Originally Posted by seida

Ha, the Japanese don't like it though, there's an insanely long thread on the jp forum complaining about foreigners selecting jp when they queue.

Personally I don't have a problem with it for easy content, or content you are confident in. But I do hate it when people queue for difficult content/things they have never cleared and obviously have no idea what to do, and then cannot even understand explanations when people give them! It's selfish and wastes everyone's time.

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This is exactly what I am talking about.
First of all, for Japanese players, we greet each other before the dungeon begins and when the dungeon ends. Even if they use the auto-translate, I hope that other players can, at least, adopt this behavior when selecting "Japanese".

Most, but not all, English-only-speaking players don't tend to do this. I understand this is natural in the English speaking gaming world, but in the Japanese gaming world it is quite rude to join a party and not say a single word. I understand it is a difference of culture, but when in the group of all players who only speak Japanese, it makes sense to try to adopt this.

Today, I had two parties where the players who didn't understand Japanese said some things to the other players in English, but they couldn't understand them.
So I had to explain so we could function as a group and clear both IDs. If I hadn't been there, I think it would have been too hectic.

I understand it must be difficult for English speakers on Oceanic data center to get a party if they can't speak Japanese, but if they queue for a Japanese ID, they should at least either:
A.) Use the autotranslate feature
B.) Learn the very basic Japanese for "Be right back", "Please wait", "I'm not ready", "Keep the enemies apart", etc

And I understand people in Oceanic region can't / don't want to join EU or NA servers. That's okay. But I hope that if queuing for a Japanese group, people shouldn't expect others to understand English.

This not only happens in Dungeons, but also in PvP. Many people who do not understand Japanese come in and shout directions in English, when they, and myself, are the only people who can understand it.

I don't mind if people who don't speak Japanese come into the group, but if they speak only English and expect everyone to understand it, it is kind of troublesome.......

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

This is exactly what I am talking about.
First of all, for Japanese players, we greet each other before the dungeon begins and when the dungeon ends. Even if they use the auto-translate, I hope that other players can, at least, adopt this behavior when selecting "Japanese".

Most, but not all, English-only-speaking players don't tend to do this. I understand this is natural in the English speaking gaming world, but in the Japanese gaming world it is quite rude to join a party and not say a single word. I understand it is a difference of culture, but when in the group of all players who only speak Japanese, it makes sense to try to adopt this.

Today, I had two parties where the players who didn't understand Japanese said some things to the other players in English, but they couldn't understand them.
So I had to explain so we could function as a group and clear both IDs. If I hadn't been there, I think it would have been too hectic.

I understand it must be difficult for English speakers on Oceanic data center to get a party if they can't speak Japanese, but if they queue for a Japanese ID, they should at least either:
A.) Use the autotranslate feature
B.) Learn the very basic Japanese for "Be right back", "Please wait", "I'm not ready", "Keep the enemies apart", etc

And I understand people in Oceanic region can't / don't want to join EU or NA servers. That's okay. But I hope that if queuing for a Japanese group, people shouldn't expect others to understand English.

This not only happens in Dungeons, but also in PvP. Many people who do not understand Japanese come in and shout directions in English, when they, and myself, are the only people who can understand it.

I don't mind if people who don't speak Japanese come into the group, but if they speak only English and expect everyone to understand it, it is kind of troublesome.......

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See the thing is in my experience the European players largely do always greet each other and say thank you at the end of a dungeon as well. Use of the auto-translate here is also very common due to the number of languages used in the region.

I think there's something of a disconnect in this thread between the English-speaking NA/Oceanic players who aren't used to engaging with other languages and English-speaking EU players who are.

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Originally Posted by seida

Ha, the Japanese don't like it though, there's an insanely long thread on the jp forum complaining about foreigners selecting jp when they queue.

Personally I don't have a problem with it for easy content, or content you are confident in. But I do hate it when people queue for difficult content/things they have never cleared and obviously have no idea what to do, and then cannot even understand explanations when people give them! It's selfish and wastes everyone's time.

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This reminds me of the JPONRY comments from FFXI. That was annoying.

Intellectually, I agree with the OP. It's common courtesy to greet everyone at the start of an instance and to use the auto-translate function whenever possible. However, the seeming elitism of the JPONRY community annoys the hell out of me, and often times degenerates me to redneck mentality and causes me to purposely pretend to misunderstand even though I know full well what is being said. If for no other reason than to rattle their elitist cages.

Auto-translate works both ways. Don't expect me to kowtow, when you're not willing to do the same.

I have never played on an EU server, so I don't know so well about the type of interaction people have when joining a party.
But I've played WoW on an NA server and a couple other games. And I've played JP games on JP servers (or games never released with an English version).

There is a really big difference in how people interact in a group.

When someone doesn't greet another person at the beginning of the dungeon, I know they are not a Japanese speaker or have knowledge of Japanese customs. Yet I or my party mates, whoever queued for the dungeon, selected Japanese only. So, it feels really strange to us.

I don't dislike the fact that they joined. It's fine for them to join and play with us. But it's rude to say nothing to your party members. And, personally, I find it rude to make requests or demands to party members in English when 3 of the 4 people queued for an only Japanese group. This is what I dislike.

The same goes for PvP. I find it rude to issue demands in English and expect the other 7 people to understand and follow them, and then become angry when they don't do it.
It's also tough when, although they queued for a Japanese group, they do not follow quests issued in Japanese.

I made macros for PvP using only the auto-translate and symbols like --> to aid both sides.

Basically, what I want to get down to is: Do you think it's okay to queue for IDs without understanding the language, culture because queue times are faster?

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

It's especially troublesome when, right before a boss, a DPS or healer says "hold on, be right back" and the tank and other player cannot understand that and begin to pull the boss.

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I think it is up to everybody in the party to check party language when entering in a dungeon ^^
That way if all are english then no worries but if there is deutsch or french or jp we should ask if all speak english otherwise use auto translation.

I don't know if after 3 years the DF search program is better but when the game starts most people select all language to speed up queuing ^^ i'm still doing it for that purpose.
I never had trouble in dungeons since i mainly use and see "Hi and GG" or auto translated welcoming and exit macro ^^

So effort must come from all the side i think ^^

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

Basically, what I want to get down to is: Do you think it's okay to queue for IDs without understanding the language, culture because queue times are faster?

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Yes. Because any drama that might or might not occur due to culture clash and misinterpretations is preferable to being a DPS and waiting hours for your que to pop. Specially on content that you've most likely have done ad nauseam.

If the queues were not broken, I would definitely check all languages even though I don't speak their language. You can do most things using auto translate, well at least anything you would actually use the DF for.

To bad the queues are broken though when it comes to selecting multiple languages. I learned my lesson from queueing all languages for frontlines... got stuck in a french queue or something for 3-4 hours without a pop, redid the queue as EN only and had a pop really quickly, asked people how long they were waiting and most people were only waiting 10 mins and had been doing matches all day. Since then have only check EN so queues go fast. Friend had a similar issue with Expert roulette a patch ago. In the mornings they would check all languages and try and queue into expert roulette as a healer and was getting like 40min-1 and a half hour queues. Since they were on healer I thought that was crazy, queues are almost never that long for me even on a DPS job... After about a week or two of this I asked if they had all languages selected and they said yes, I told them to select EN only, and instantly they only had to wait 5-10 mins max to get into expert. Maybe they fixed the queue system now in the last patch or so... but that really is the only reason I'm not actively trying to play with people who speak different languages.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

This is exactly what I am talking about.
First of all, for Japanese players, we greet each other before the dungeon begins and when the dungeon ends. Even if they use the auto-translate, I hope that other players can, at least, adopt this behavior when selecting "Japanese".

Most, but not all, English-only-speaking players don't tend to do this. I understand this is natural in the English speaking gaming world, but in the Japanese gaming world it is quite rude to join a party and not say a single word. I understand it is a difference of culture, but when in the group of all players who only speak Japanese, it makes sense to try to adopt this.

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A lot of us on the NA servers find it to be rude too. I don't get why people can't be bothered to say hello and goodbye at the beginning and the end of a run. You wouldn't do that IRL, so why do it in a game?

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

A lot of us on the NA servers find it to be rude too. I don't get why people can't be bothered to say hello and goodbye at the beginning and the end of a run. You wouldn't do that IRL, so why do it in a game?

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I'm glad that it is not as much of a cultural thing as I thought then.
I remember playing WoW and I recall that most people said nothing when entering a party or dungeon together.

Lets be honest... Its not like you actually need to communicate in dungeons in the game.

I've selected all languages for excalibur, but I've yet to be partied with a non english speaking party. :knocks on wood:

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Lets be honest... Its not like you actually need to communicate in dungeons in the game.

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But the problems occur when one person doesn't like the way another person is doing something and begins to tell them to do something differently. However, the person being told does not speak English and did not select "English" among the language options. Yet they are being spoken to in English.

Problems occur when people tell others to hang on a second, their phone is ringing, or whatever...

When the person who selected Japanese, but does not speak Japanese, is in the dungeon for the first time and knows none of the mechanics. People try to explain them, but the person doesn't understand.

In PvP, when someone suggests everyone go somewhere, but one or two people can't understand that language and run off on their own.

And this occurs in raids, trails, and dungeons.

Yes, there is a need to communicate.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I'm glad that it is not as much of a cultural thing as I thought then.
I remember playing WoW and I recall that most people said nothing when entering a party or dungeon together.

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That's really sad. I played WoW for a month or two and decided it wasn't for me, so I can't comment at all on the raid culture there. I think most people have the attitude that they're never going to see the party again, so there's no need for formalities.

what i hear in majority all language parties:

1) "MT"

2) *silence*

3) "lol"

seems safe enough >_>

I queued all languages when I was on Chaos, as long as I knew the dungeon. Now I'm on aether, so it's generally only English speakers anyway. I don't mind people who queue for a language they don't speak - after all, there are some players that don't speak any of the game's languages, but still enjoy to play. Should they avoid DF?

I don't think this needs to be over-analysed like the OP is suggesting.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I'm glad that it is not as much of a cultural thing as I thought then.
I remember playing WoW and I recall that most people said nothing when entering a party or dungeon together.

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Of course not. Being polite is not limited to culture.
I say "Hello everyone" and "thanks for the run, have a good day" without even thinking about it. A lot of people I've encountered though have literally left the duty before I even finished typing goodbye xD
This is my experience on the Chaos datacentre at least.

I check everything because, as stated, most DF things require no communication, most DF things HAVE no communication, and 99.9% of the time (on Primal anyway) it's an English speaking party anyway if they speak at all.

Maybe for except the most difficult extreme/savage fights (which I don't do anyway), there are sufficient tools to communicate most basic strategies.

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Originally Posted by raela

I queued all languages when I was on Chaos, as long as I knew the dungeon. Now I'm on aether, so it's generally only English speakers anyway. I don't mind people who queue for a language they don't speak - after all, there are some players that don't speak any of the game's languages, but still enjoy to play. Should they avoid DF?

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No, they shouldn't. But couldn't they try to learn how to use the auto-translate feature effectively or a couple necessary phrases for partying with people who speak a different language?

That's my daily life at JP data center!