The question for Monday: Why do you need your clear asap?

Why are people so much obsessed with getting their clears as soon as possible?

I finally got some time to work on the Nidhogg Ex and basically spent whole weekend doing training parties on Ragnarok. Everything was great, got many times to the fang phase with fresh groups, till… till I tried to make a party for the adds training specifically. There isn’t much to train there if people can live till that point, but practice is always good. Suddenly problems started. People were failing as much as fresh training groups during the start of the fight if not even more, people were getting more irritated and leaving before the timer finished. The attitude changed a lot while there being only a tiny little difference in the “progression”. Why?

Well I know why. Because suddenly everyone was expected to reach the point of training without messing up too much, and people of course were doing a lot of mistakes – making it obvious they either did not practice enough or even tried the fight before. Why?

Why do people join parties beyond their real experience?

“I got to the phase 5 once, so clearly I mastered all the previous phases!”

Really? I saw this attitude several times. People getting to the fang phase once and suddenly being too good for training the previous parts.

“Fang phase training. Two wipes before that = disband!”

And then this person died in the first phase when they joined our add group. Well at least they realised that some more training was needed I guess. ^^

This attitude is baffling. Why can’t people learn a part of the fight before moving up, instead of pushing it as much as possible to move up?

It just leads to pointless frustration and disbands.

Someone starts training party for towers etc., and then the group makes the same (sometimes even less) progression as I am doing with new groups. How? I am teaching the fight to completely new people yet my groups reach the same point eventually as their parties before disbanding. Of course it takes more time, coz they disband after a wipe or two, but still…

Wouldn’t it be much better if everyone could join the party for the certain phase and actually get there to practice it because all the party members practiced enough the previous ones?

It would lead to much better experience and eventually faster progression for everyone in my opinion.


Let’s end this opening post with last question(s):

What do you think would motivate people to join the “correct groups” for them?

The community? Some adjustments to PF? New features? Etc. etc.

All comments are welcome.

Because after a while, very few people tolerate "learning" groups anymore (as in, you'll have a hard time getting anyone except the truly altruistic people to join), and if you haven't gotten at least one clear you basically become like Pig-Pen, constantly surrounded by that "100 esos" dirt cloud that causes everyone to leave duty because no one wants to be around that.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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is so true...I wish I could join a Learning party but all request already that people know the fight up to this or that point when I am totally completely knew to the fight so ...right now is impossible for me to do any of the higher Ex (as I call them). Idealy I am with OP on this, but unfortunately, so rare to find that ...well impossible is more like it.

Dying is part of a Learning curve but for some reasons, people are all born with insta knowledge...and cant tolerate that others are not...go and figure.

As for motivation ? that the group sticks together from start to end of the timer, no matter how many death or stuff....but this is utopy.

No matter the amount of motivation(in this case reward) will be of any good, the only thing that could make a difference is change of mentality from players, but that is impossible in a game where players dont play as a group but solo in a group.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Because after a while, very few people tolerate "learning" groups anymore (as in, you'll have a hard time getting anyone except the truly altruistic people to join), and if you haven't gotten at least one clear you basically become like Pig-Pen, constantly surrounded by that "100 esos" dirt cloud that causes everyone to leave duty because no one wants to be around that.

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This here. If you don't hop on content quickly in this game, you're getting left behind. Am I okay with this? No. But that's how it works.

Big portion of the people around me is always in a rush to get the new content de-bonused out of the fear to play with the “bad players” and then they complain that farm parties can’t even get through the first half of the fight…

Well of course, because the current bonus system is working well with carrying. Not to mention people jumping in the farm parties when they get one lucky clear.

“Clear party – if we clear farm; two wipes disband/kick”

Since when is one clear enough to get the content on farm? Clearing something once is in no way same as clearing it consistently.

The good thing about learning parties is that you can start your own for whatever you want.

The bad thing that more and more players want “carry a friend two fails kick know 100%” parties instead of practicing the fight so it takes longer to fill up, and those who do join sometimes try to skip phases they haven’t practiced enough leading to wipes in these.

The worst about this is teaching a group fight till some point just to having it disbanded and then starting over with a new one. Idk, how to deal with this. I have been told that I should start kicking the “failing” players but that seems harsh.

Kinda wish more people were honest and trying to deserve their clears. It would make content much more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

is so true...I wish I could join a Learning party but all request already that people know the fight up to this or that point when I am totally completely knew to the fight so ...right now is impossible for me to do any of the higher Ex (as I call them). Idealy I am with OP on this, but unfortunately, so rare to find that ...well impossible is more like it.

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Rare to FIND, perhaps - so make one! These Party Finder parties don't just spring up out of nowhere. They occur when someone finally buckles down and makes one. Be that person!

You are not alone. There are many people in your position, interested in learning the earlier phases and frustrated by the fact that no one makes parties to learn the early phases. If you build it, they will come!

I cleared Niddy in 2 trainings sessions in a PUG.
Wednesday joined a training without further description so thought I could join. We wiped twice early and party lead disbanded, so made my own "no XP needed we wipe to learn bring patience". After 3 timers and a lot of replacements cause people needed to leave we got the last half hour reliable past Fang and Claw and to first Akh Morn even if more death than alive.
Thursday one of the tanks PFed last phase training. I joined, so did 2 others of the team from day before. We wiped 4-5 times Fang and claw and 4 people ragequit (those that weren't in the team the day before) we re-pfed and after 2-3 replacements again (3hrs later I admit) due to time issues we got through the full rotation and kept going for another 1,5 hrs until we cleared.


Mayn people though have
a) not the will to stay that long in the same team wiping and training
b) not the knowledge how good they really are with the mechanics, how comfortable

I noticed that a few times and it has its climax in people that are new to a fight and tell the XP people how to handle stuff.
Also those that point fingers are an issue and the patience on a early wipe due to derp/focus/whatever reason is lowered the further into a fight you are.
I don't think the majority is "lieing" about their progress rather lack the raidawareness to adjust to teams and new situations.

Considering I cleared Sephi after a long day; many people didn't know basics of the last phase so had hours of wipes in my bones. A friend made a kill group and suddenly we had helaers right instead of left whet I had trained the whole time and my brain wasn't able to process the new situation. I wiped them for a timer due to running wrong way with the Earth Shaker, then told them about my problem. We switched the positions and cleared in 2 pulls lol

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Rare to FIND, perhaps - so make one! These Party Finder parties don't just spring up out of nowhere. They occur when someone finally buckles down and makes one. Be that person!

You are not alone. There are many people in your position, interested in learning the earlier phases and frustrated by the fact that no one makes parties to learn the early phases. If you build it, they will come!

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Yep. To reiterate, the PF is not only a tool that you can use for joining, but also for POSTING YOUR OWN DAMN LEARNING PARTIES. Just be clear in your descriptions on what you expect prospective players to expect (I.e. "practice", "learning", "expect multiple attempts", "impatient people gtfo", etc), and you're good to go!

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Why are people so much obsessed with getting their clears as soon as possible?

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People by nature want to get rewards and something done asap. Look at other things, a new movie, game, CD..anything, people are usually the first to get it at midnight. They want to be worlds first some of them or have very little control on enjoying it. They get more enjoyment out of saying to their friends "yeah I'm already done, are you?" ego buff! I'm guilty of it sometimes, we all are.

This isn't a game where we need to rush. We have 3 months of a buffer and even though you're given the opportunity to do everything, you don't need to. They rush, over play and get upset over little things. Then they expect people to be on par with them with these things. A lot of people will start with "Well I got through this phase first try, I never had any issues" yes..you didn't. That doesn't mean the other people won't. If we were all like you, there would be no worries. They stay set in that mindset of since they didn't have a problem it's unacceptable for others to.

People, I think get into parties beyond their experience and screw up because they were either carried or maybe they're just worn out. Sometimes it is okay to put down the controller, step back to relax and come back at it stronger in a right frame of mind.

There is nothing that can correct this, except people changing.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

People naturally are just in a rush to clear things asap....it isn't a flaw of FFXIV, it's a flaw of the users in a sense that...

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I always like stuff I can ram my head into solo without my static (no loot lockout, clearable in PUG without voiceover) and I had 3 days after patch off for another reason anyway o.o
For me its fun and an achievement.

Learning groups phase out and the gap between players with experience and those wanting to do content expands. Even now, you're going to be waiting a whilr for ex and coil groups.

Get it while it's hot.

I agree with Fynlar, also possibly for bragging rights or something? I know some groups do so.
Also for example it makes it rather pointless doing content like Primals for example that drop weapons but doing it months and months after, but hey glam is end game:)

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Yep. To reiterate, the PF is not only a tool that you can use for joining, but also for POSTING YOUR OWN DAMN LEARNING PARTIES.

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Do you really think we're all too stupid as to have not figured this out (and for at least some of us, attempted this) on our own?

I haven't tried Nidhogg yet so no idea about that fight, but based on my previous experience, if you reach a phase without failing before that, what is wrong with wanting to train from there?
I don't need training in phase 1-4 if I make it to 5 without trouble, even if I did not wipe 500 times in each previous phase to "get used to it" or whatever. Some people learn faster than others, so what's wrong with it?
It takes me one, at most two wipes to get the mechanics of a fight down, up to 4 to perfect my timing on selfbuffs and the like (again, based on previous fights, no idea how Nidhogg will be for me). I don't see any reason to keep wiping in phases I can already do without fail...

What you are actually complaining about is people joining who don't know what to do in previous phases. This has nothing to do with the amount of training they got though, simply with them wanting to get pulled through to get a win without putting in the actual work. I joined a Sephi EX clear party a while ago, and when I asked 5!! of 8 people admitted that they were entering the fight for the first time. Their expectation being that 7 others would be good enough to clear so them failing wouldn't matter, right?

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Originally Posted by Atoli

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Nothing is wrong with that. It is absolutely fine if you can do it without failing too much. The amount of pratice is of course subjective, some get it faster some later, the issue starts when the players join a training party for phase 4 while failing in phase 2 or 3 multiple times etc. They overestimate their experience making it frustrating for the rest of the party who actually might have practiced the previous phase 100 times before to get through it flawlessly, instead of joining phase 2-3 training, which would also help the players there to learn the phase coz they should have some practice in it already and could provide guidance.

It is simple. The more time pass, the harder become find a party. THis will respond your question. How many Ravana Ex training/clear party you've seen? That's it. People want clear Nidhogg as soon as possible, cause in few months or even less ,no one will join a traing party anymore. letting this people without a clear (I hate it a lot, it is a very bad desing fail here), then is when Square Enix open the trial Ex to Duty finder, to give a chance to this players (even knowing clear in DF is a miracle).

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Nothing is wrong with that. It is absolutely fine if you can do it without failing too much. The amount of pratice is of course subjective, some get it faster some later, the issue starts when the players join a training party for phase 4 while failing in phase 2 or 3 multiple times etc. They overestimate their experience making it frustrating for the rest of the party who actually might have practiced the previous phase 100 times before to get through it flawlessly, instead of joining phase 2-3 training, which would also help the players there to learn the phase coz they should have some practice in it already and could provide guidance.

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I was mainly refering to this part:

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“I got to the phase 5 once, so clearly I mastered all the previous phases!”
Really? I saw this attitude several times. People getting to the fang phase once and suddenly being too good for training the previous parts.

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Like, I think there is nothing wrong with joining a p5 (Nidhogg) party even if you only reached it once, if the fails before that were not on you. When I was trying to clear Thordan EX, I had only reached the end once and still would have rather wanted to join clear parties, because I didn't mess up before that, my other party members did. It gets incredibly frustrating to die to the same bull again and again because you join parties for below your own progress level. Why should I keep wiping in a phase 2-3 (Nidhogg) training party if I have already made it to phase 5 without mess-ups?
If I actually end up failing during phase 1-4, you are free to kick me, as I obviously do not fulfill the requirements for this party.

Sorry, a bit heated about this topic as I know way too many people who ended up never clearing content at all because of their friendly mentality of "I should better gather more experience in the lower phases even though I already did them 100 times without fail".

[QUOTE=LineageRazor;3748445] snipQUOTE]

Seriously, you think those like me didnt try ? we did try...we simply dont bother anymore or just wait for it to be in DF..eventually.

As to why people want clear within the first hour ? it was explained already because after that first hour you already are requested to be a Genius.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

People want clear Nidhogg as soon as possible, cause in few months or even less ,no one will join a traing party anymore.

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Isn't this fear feeding itself? If players took it easy the learning parties would stick around longer.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

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I don't mind a little bit of heat. ^^

My view point is that players practicing too much make the PF better, while players doing the opposite are harmful.

My concern is that this:

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Like, I think there is nothing wrong with joining a p5 (Nidhogg) party even if you only reached it once, if the fails before that were not on you... If I actually end up failing during phase 1-4, you are free to kick me, as I obviously do not fulfill the requirements for this party.

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Can actually lead to this:

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Originally Posted by Atoli

people who ended up never clearing content at all because of their friendly mentality of "I should better gather more experience in the lower phases even though I already did them 100 times without fail"

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The player who is not ready for the phase can be kicked of course but it is already decreasing morale for the rest of the party and if enough of these players get in one group it leads quickly to the disbanding while slowing down the overall PF progression.

On Excalibur, the learning parties drop off pretty fast. On day 1 there were already farm parties. SephirotEX on our server pretty much died when they added the lore weapon and relic upgrade. I expect Nidhogg to also drop from relevance in 3.35. If you pug, you need to get a clear ASAP and that is where this mentality comes from. It's not a huge issue if you have people to play with but if you are trying to pug a mount drop or something it becomes a rush to get a clear so you can actually farm it before everyone finishes doing so. It eventually goes from learning to no bonus farm parties after a bit. So basically, Nidhogg has about a month of life left I would say. Not sure of other servers though.

Really, it's somewhat SE's fault for obsoleting content so fast.

I'm pretty patient but it can be difficult to want to stay behind on a mechanic you have mastered. I remember trying to get a clear on Turn 5 but my static completely sucked at showing up when they were supposed to. I jumped in with different groups attempting to get it down. Wipe after wipe, people drop and get swapped out with someone else. When you're still a learning party, learners obviously join. But it really just sucks when you just got everyone in that group managing the fireballs and conflags, so close to getting everyone through divebombs, just to have 2 or 3 new people that you have to teach fireballs and conflags too all over again. With a mechanic as simple as that one, it really does get frustrating when it takes another hour or two for them to get it down, at which point someone else drops and needs replaced by...you guessed it....another person that has to learn the previous mechanic.

I also find that the longer you take to get content cleared, the worse the players get that you end up getting put with later. By starting content right away and putting focus into clearing it quickly, I get more serious party members, and most of those runs go pretty smoothly. After you have enough experience with it you can join farm parties, and personally to me, it makes it much easier to enjoy that content. Wait too long though, and you'll be certain to wipe more, clears take longer, and it is harder to find groups to help you get the farm momentum you would have had if you'd started earlier.

I really wish we had an option like Sea, Stone, Sky but for various phases of raid/EX mechanics. So that we can practice on our own. It would be the same arena as the main fight, the "team" could be made up of NPCs that would get KO'ed but not killed (scions perhaps?) and this way you can see how the boss moves, how to dodge different things and basically just learn the mechanics at your own pace. I know that defeats the purpose of the MM part of MMORPGs but if you want players to "git gud" but also don't want them making you lag behind, give them a way to practice that doesn't involve sparring dummies.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I really wish we had an option like Sea, Stone, Sky but for various phases of raid/EX mechanics. So that we can practice on our own. It would be the same arena as the main fight, the "team" could be made up of NPCs that would get KO'ed but not killed (scions perhaps?) and this way you can see how the boss moves, how to dodge different things and basically just learn the mechanics at your own pace. I know that defeats the purpose of the MM part of MMORPGs but if you want players to "git gud" but also don't want them making you lag behind, give them a way to practice that doesn't involve sparring dummies.

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I don't like the dummies either. I imagined putting the player in a duty that let them go through the phases slowly until they mastered it. So keep dodging aoes, or placing markers in certain places until they get the hang of it and move them to the next phase.

Because all of us at one point or another have dragged our feet in clearing the latest primal. The results are never good- the quality of teammates dips further and further the longer you wait. That's why many of us rush to get on board the first or second week farm train.

When I can't find a learning party that suits my needs or that lasts more than a few deaths, I make my own.

If I make my own learning group I can ensure I get in some practice for as many hours as I like. Any impatient people leave, weeding themselves out until I'm left with a group who WANTS to learn and practice. I just keep setting up party finder till we have a solid group.

Anyone who complains about others' lack of skill is free to leave and join another group.
The only people who get kicked from my group are those who pick on others. Everyone else is free to stay and learn, regardless of skill level.

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

This here. If you don't hop on content quickly in this game, you're getting left behind. Am I okay with this? No. But that's how it works.

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This, for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Do you really think we're all too stupid as to have not figured this out (and for at least some of us, attempted this) on our own?

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Stupid, no. Unconfident, yes.

Time and again, I hear of folks bitterly complaining that there's never a party to join. When I ask why they don't make one themselves, they respond as though such a suggestion is outrageous. "I don't know how to lead a party," or other such nonsense - like you need any kind of leadership skills to put together an early-phase pug in PF!

Hopefully this thread will let folks know that it's okay to form your own parties. You don't need to be a leader to get a group going in Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Seriously, you think those like me didnt try ? we did try...we simply dont bother anymore or just wait for it to be in DF..eventually.

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Yes, I seriously thought you didn't try. Kudos for you if you did. But there are PLENTY who feel like they need some kind of degree in business management before they can crack open Party Finder and select "Recruit Members". Since you didn't mention anything about making your own, I assumed you were one such person.

You shouldn't give up, though, if you're really interested in completing this content. "Just waiting for it to be in DF" is a pretty sure recipe for failure!

From what I've been told, this is exclusive to the NA/EU servers. JP servers allegedly have far more learning parties available and accept that not everyone is going to be a pro even months into the content.

Considering they added a Raid Finder to queue for Midas learning groups, I really think they should add this feature for EX Trials. Honestly, the only reason I can see for not throwing these in the Duty Finder from the getgo is to bring people in the server together. But it's clear it's not doing that well, so the whole requirement of a pre-formed party should be dropped.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

like you need any kind of leadership skills to put together an early-phase pug in PF!

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This is not entirely accurate. The party leader is still expected to direct the team, so you *do* need leadership skills and a general knowledge of the fight, especially three weeks to a month out from the latest primal. There's an expectation that you've "watched a youtube video" and can lead the team.


This is why I wish the hard mode content wasn't *so* far removed from the extreme mode content or we had some other way to get into practice modes of extreme mode content. I feel like I mastered the hard mode in a couple tries, enough that I finished both Seph and Nid on my feet in random groups by try #2, but extreme content is so much more difficult with no way to practice other than hoping the 7 other people don't bail after the first wipe. The gap is huge and doesn't have to be. The hard mode content could stand to be a little harder.

If you're a little behind, like I am, forget about it. I have to now wait until this content is obsolete to finish it.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

This is not entirely accurate. The party leader is still expected to direct the team, so you *do* need leadership skills and a general knowledge of the fight, especially three weeks to a month out from the latest primal. There's an expectation that you've "watched a youtube video" and can lead the team.

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Except that this is only true if you do not specify otherwise in the PF description.

There have been times where myself or friends have been behind on content and wanted to set up a learning party in the party finder, so we would specifically describe the party as a "wiping party" and make sure to get the point across that we were going in to get our feet wet and had very little to no knowledge of the fight.

More often than not the party either filled with like minded individuals who wanted to test the waters and get some experience or others who have cleared before but wanted practice on a new job or role (like tanking / healing), occasionally we would even have players join who simply wanted to help others learn the fight because they had free time on their hands.

There were the few times that there were players who joined the party without fully understanding the intent and would get impatient and leave but those cases were few and far between.

The key is that you have to be up front about exactly what you're trying to do and in some cases wait for other like-minded individuals to fill the spots, but for many players it does start by stepping out of your comfort zone and actually putting up a party.

The reason the JP servers have more learning parties in the PF is because they are being made by both players who want to teach and players who want to learn.

This idea of sitting around and waiting for the perfect learning party to show up and then complaining that there aren't any players making them however will accomplish far less than tossing one up and taking a few lumps here and there and more importantly not giving up after a few bad experiences.

Yeah, I'm sure I'm forever screwed out of doing Nidhogg EX at this point - because when the patch launched, I was way too interested in the new raid, the new dungeons, the MSQ and, especially, furnishing my new house. Now, all I ever see is farm parties. I suppose I could try and make a learning party. Who knows if I even consider it that important at this point.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Because after a while, very few people tolerate "learning" groups anymore (as in, you'll have a hard time getting anyone except the truly altruistic people to join), and if you haven't gotten at least one clear you basically become like Pig-Pen, constantly surrounded by that "100 esos" dirt cloud that causes everyone to leave duty because no one wants to be around that.

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Lol and people try to say ffxi was soo "toxic" and "wah I got excluded"

Not like this you didn't. This kind of treatment is way worse. Fights go obsolete too fast in this game and expectations are ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

a few? a few?
Try seeing this patch after patch when trying to clear it. Try getting it finally done only in time for the next content to rush past you, leaving you stuck in earlier phases while you are trying to learn tethers.

Oh I've seen what it is when pugs are the only thing you have to turn to. night after night after night.

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I've been here since 1.0 and it seems my experience has obviously been very different than yours.

There are both good and bad pick up groups and sometimes you just end up having a bad night of runs, it happens. More often than not in my experience I've walked away from parties that I've put up for learning being better at the fights coming out of them than i was when i started, even if the party as a whole did not make significant progress. The experience also allows me to change the conditions of the next PF I put up.

I'll ask myself this question:

Did I consistently get past "x" phase of the fight with the previous learning party and now know well enough to perform in it?

If so then I'll put up a party for the next phase of the fight and repeat this process until I've learned the fight in it's entirety, at which point I'll change the party from "learning" to "clear" and after enough consistent clears I'll change it to "farm" and repeat this cycle with each new update / encounter.

Once again the key is to not get discouraged and to not give up, either that or find a group of players you mesh well with and join a LS or FC that runs this kind of content so you can avoid using the PF and DF altogether.

In fact as I type this post there is currently a clear party in the PF right now on Excal for Nid Ex and i usually see quite a few during the course of the day.

I understand that it looks like people just need to "just make a party", but there's a lot more to the issue. Its less stressful than what I made it out to be, but that it eats at people is still a thing that happens. there a difference noticed betwren a party that is finding its way through and a party that knows what to do, and only one gets rewarded by the game.

I'm one of those people who wanted a clear as soon as possible because i knew if i didn't i never would. Thankfully i did.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

This is not entirely accurate. The party leader is still expected to direct the team, so you *do* need leadership skills and a general knowledge of the fight, especially three weeks to a month out from the latest primal. There's an expectation that you've "watched a youtube video" and can lead the team.

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Then dispel this expectation. Make it clear in the party finder that you're as green as green gets. You will STILL get folks wiling to join. Other folks that would like to try the content blind. Mentor-types who want to show the newbie the ropes. Bored folks who are just looking for something exciting to do.

As long as it's clear in the party finder description what folks who join should expect, any mistaken expectations of this kind are on the heads of the folks joining, not the one who organizes it. It still won't stop some folks from blundering in without reading the description carefully enough, but I don't give them much consideration and neither should anyone else.

Above all, avoid simplistic descriptions. I joined a party that just said "learning" not too long ago. Nothing else. We got a variety of folks who were expecting all kinds of different progression stages - and unsurprisingly, most left when they realized how fresh a lot of the players were...

If you create your own learning party, and you are doing it alone, almost nobody joins it, and making a group takes a couple of hours. Some people join, other quit. And even if you got 8 players, someone will inevitably quit after 1-2 wipes. I have no idea, why they do this, but it happens.

If I see a learning party in pf with 1 member (especially when it has title "help for a friend" lol), I don't join it, because I know that I have to wait there for 2-3 hours, and we may even not enter duty after that, and if we enter.. see above.

Of course, the best solution for this is static. And I have a static, because it saves me a lot of time (this is to those people who says that they don't have enough time for it).

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Then dispel this expectation. Make it clear in the party finder that you're as green as green gets. You will STILL get folks wiling to join.

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Yes, you will. And you will still get that one jerkface who joined to "teach other players" and either ragequits after leaving you with several "well-intentioned" insults, or is just abusive throughout the whole process and you end up disbanding anyway. I know you are trying to be helpful but I've been doing this mmo thing for a long time, and I've never see players as horrible and abusive to other players as in this game. Our server is particularly harsh, as is Balmung. Places like Excalibur seem to be nicer. I hear the entire JP community is laid back.

NA players are some of the meanest, most elitist, most obnoxious players in the game and after years of trying, I'm at the point where it's not even worth my time. I'll wait until it makes it into duty finder and clear it there with strangers from other servers. There's no way I'm putting up a PF on Gilgamesh.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

I've been here since 1.0 and it seems my experience has obviously been very different than yours.

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You are on Excalibur. That server seems to be the most decent of the lot. Even when hunts first landed there were few to 0 complaints coming from people on that server. Balmung on the other hand...

You just got lucky and picked the right server. So yes, your experience has probably differed DRASTICALLY from others.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You are on Excalibur. That server seems to be the most decent of the lot. Even when hunts first landed there were few to 0 complaints coming from people on that server. Balmung on the other hand...

You just got lucky and picked the right server. So yes, your experience has probably differed DRASTICALLY from others.

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Maybe, but the person i specifically replied to on this page at least is also from Excalibur. I can't speak for Balmung but as it's also one of the highest pop servers regardless of the fact that it's primarily an RP server i can't imagine it would be impossible to find at least 7 other like minded players who are interested in clearing content.

My today's PF experience with Nidhogg was kinda expected but... sigh.

I decided to make a PF group for "fang+claw" and waited 2.5 hours till the party got together. Alright, it is probably the weekly reset and people are doing other things. When we finally got in there it was clear that the people were not experienced enough and instead of training the "fang+claw" the group disbanded after finally reaching the phase... great.

I felt really disappointed by that and decided to fill the last spot in a new group for the fight, on top of that even being mostly non-english. Of course my new party members were dying even more than those in the previous group... but that was the point of the party so it was fine. With that in mind I spent a whole hour explaining the fight while helping them to train it. Eventually we also got to the fang+claw phase! The huge difference being that this run was actually enjoyable and put me in good mood, instead of sucking life out of me.

Now, I just finished another run to which I got invited. "After towers training group" it was called. It was not. People were getting hit by the charge, we were wiping on the adds! Fun. It got even better when the party leader admitted there were people lacking experience, but according to them "it's fine to fail in training groups... it's after towers training because I finished fang and claw phase". To make this even more "hilarious" she had problems with an offtank who was doing mistakes and was not supposed to be there, but her friends had free pass to fail coz it was "training". Like really? And this comes from a person who is constantly crying how bad the players are in farm parties...

No wonder PF has such reputation with people like this and it is both sad and annoying. If people I know can't understand the issues with naming parties incorrectly and the need to practice the early parts first how could random players do that. >_>