Specialist skills unnecessary for Omnicrafters?

After reading in this forum, my understanding is that Specialization is a way for non-Omnicrafters to be able to do end-game crafting without access to all of the cross-class skills.

That's a decent goal, but I'm disappointed because I'd assumed Specialization would be a way of making certain items craftable only by Specialists - not because they're tagged "specialist only" (as is the case currently), but because they'd be very difficult to make without Specialist actions.

I was hoping Specialist skills would let Omnicrafters soar above and beyond what they could normally achieve. I keep looking forward to items that somehow require cunning use of Specialist skills, but that's not been the case. With only a bit of overmelding of the pre-Best-in-Slot gear, Omnicrafters can easily and reliably craft 2-star items, no Specialization required. And Omnicrafters with just the base stats necessary for 3-star crafting can overcome any hurdles by adding enough HQ materials.

As an Omnicrafter, I'd like to be able to put Specialist skills to good use somehow. For instance, using Heart of the Carpenter to drive the Whistle Stack (WS) down or fish for a Good for Byregot's Blessing; having to rely on the progress boost from a WS of 9/6/3 to finish an item, or using Byregot's Miracle to make repeated use of Trained Hand, but none of these actions are necessary or efficient for an Omnicrafter.

I'm just curious if other Omnicrafters are disappointed that Specialist skills are largely unnecessary for them?

The issue is that so many of the specialist actions are tied to the Good condition. Guess what rarely shows up on level 60+ crafts....

It's true that Good conditions are rare at 60, but you can use Heart of the CRP/WVR/whatever and fairly reliably get 2+ Good conditions. Using two Tricks of the Trade plus a Satisfaction (easy to do while Maker's Mark is active), you're up 10 CP and your Whistle Stack is down 3. Stretching crafting out long enough (such as by using Maker's Mark) means you're likely to see two more Good conditions.

But that's not really the point - the point is that I have no reason to do any of this because I can more reliably craft anything with no Specialist skills whatsoever so long as I add sufficient HQ materials. I'd like Specialist skills to not only help non-Omnicrafters get a leg up, but be a necessary part of end-game crafting. It galls me that it's possible to macro-craft end-game items. I'm all for using macros to turn out lower level items, but end game items? No way! End-game crafting should involve skill, cunning use of available abilities, and calculated risk.

Give me a challenge, dangit!

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

The issue is that so many of the specialist actions are tied to the Good condition. Guess what rarely shows up on level 60+ crafts....

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Yeah, mostly this. They could fix it but I really don't know why they haven't.

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Originally Posted by Mhalak

I keep looking forward to items that somehow require cunning use of Specialist skills, but that's not been the case.

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The main problem is that the specialist skills are fundamentally broken. They're unreliable, making your overall synthesis generally worse by being so. They need to fix the skills before anything. I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed them.

In general I haven't ever really found myself touching any of the specialist actions. Not to mention them being tied to RNG makes them very undesirable and closer to a Russian Roulette gamble. You either get your luck to work for you or it fails to work properly a majority of the time.

I will admit that spec skills are really strong
I mean when you read their effect it's impressive !

But as stated by other they are way too demanding and situationnal to be use effectively

They're way too dependent on RNG. I don't even have them on my bar.

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Originally Posted by Mhalak

Give me a challenge, dangit!

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Well, you said yourself that you can reliably craft anything - by substituting HQ materials. So, for a challenge, don't substitute HQ materials! A skilled crafter who knows their biz has a high chance of success even when starting with NQ materials. They know when they can afford to substitute in a Precise Touch, or when it's a good time to Tricks a Good or Excellent condition. These generally aren't things you can program into a macro.

I don't think it's fair to say that endgame crafting is "easy" either. Yes, it's possible now to craft endgame crafting items by way of macro, but getting to that point took a lot of imaginative thinking and experimentation with painfully rare and expensive ingredients. Let's not downplay the achievements of those crafting pioneers!

The biggest problem with specialist skills is that while they may be powerful, they are too random to be relied upon. Using them is similar to coming up with a crafting process that depends on Rapid Synthesis to close out the synth. That Rapid Synthesis may chew up an awful lot of Progress - but at a minimum, you're going to fail a fifth of your crafts. Your chance of successfully completing the synth may be high, but you're relying on a single action to make or break your synth. Heart of the Crafter is similar - it's expensive, and if you DON'T get those two Goods, your synth is pretty much wrecked.

One way I could see the Specialist skills becoming useful would be a rather simple change: Have Heart of the Crafter force Good conditions at every possible opportunity, rather than just increase the odds. In seven steps, that would be four guaranteed Good conditions (or three, if you were silly enough to activate it on a Good or Excellent). A skill that provided reliable, predictable Good conditions might very well change the face of Specialist crafting, and allow for the potential of adding recipes that depend on Specialist skills for a decent chance of success.

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

The issue is that so many of the specialist actions are tied to the Good condition. Guess what rarely shows up on level 60+ crafts....

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Correct. They also added the "Delineation" items to increase the likelihood of Good and Excellent conditions (Assumedly back to pre-expansion chances) in exchange for blue scrips, which were obviously designed to be used in tandem with the specialist skills.

What went completely over their heads is that the system ended up being so convoluted and full of bloat that, simply, no one really bothered. Crafting in Heavensward is punishing enough as it is with the obnoxious amount of materials required for just about every recipe.

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Originally Posted by Melchkt

What went completely over their heads is that the system ended up being so convoluted and full of bloat that, simply, no one really bothered.

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They're not just convoluted and full of bloat. They're just downright bad.

There are many changes I'd like to see made to them. One possible change I'd like is to remove the CP cost from Heart of the Crafter, and replace it with a once per synth restriction. Trained Hand could have its CP cost halved. Whistle While You Work should boost more actions on a multiple of 3, such as Byregot's Miracle. Or, you know... all specialist actions.

Trained Hand should be 100% and cost at most 18 CP, Satisfaction should restore 18 CP so that 2 would give back the CP cost of Whistle while you work. I actually had a pretty good "rotation" that only needed to get through enough Whistle-stacks for a 20 DUR Nymeia's Wheel, but with all the restoration of CP I needed an additional 25 CP for an extra SH2.

With each new *-level crafts are getting longer and longer... not more challenging :(