Need help with my group Raid DPS

Hello all,

I have very limited knowledge about classes other than my own (PLD) so I would like you guys to give me some tips on how to improve the raid group dps.
Below is out A5S kill

AS5

The DRG looks pretty nice. However, BLM, MNK and BRD seem a bit lacking.
The WAR recently switch classes, so I am guessing there is a lot of room to improve aswell.

I am not sure what to look for in the logs as I know very little about these classes.

Please take a look and tell me what they can do to improve.

Also, is there another website where I can post and discuss how to improve for specific bosses? Maybe reddit or MMO champ?

Not die would be my big offer. We can't tell too much without gear levels, but it'll come down to practice. Warrior was definitely low, but he could be spending too much time in Defiance when he could be in deliverance. So idk, give it more shots and let us know.

we need more info, like the ilvl of everyone in the group to be able to gauge who isn't pulling their weight. Depending on your ilvl, that dps isn't bad. And if you've cleared then there shouldn't be an issue. After you clear for more weeks and get better gear, the dps should go up.

As for how to improve on specific bosses... what's wrong with this website?

DRG and BLM damage is okay IMHO.

BRD and MNK do look low. In the overall rating MNK is the top DPS in this turn.

You can compare with our data from yesterday. The MCH should be compareable to BRD.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

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BRD and MNK do look low. In the overall rating MNK is the top DPS in this turn...

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The monk did die once at 6 min for the stone curse. So that reduces it by somewhat. At a quick glance he was playing otherwise well. He even kept his GL3 stacks at hummelfaust. Which I don't see from every monk. It's not hard but they don't realise how to time it.

But I'm on phone so I can't see everything so well for better analysis. Warrior could be higher tho. But is he doing the bombs or something? I'll look more when I get home if I remember

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

The monk did die once at 6 min for the stone curse.

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Hm. Ok. I've seen now he didn't got raised.

Why he didn't got raised?

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

we need more info, like the ilvl of everyone in the group to be able to gauge who isn't pulling their weight

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BLM ilvl230
BRD ilvl226
MNK ilvl231
DRG ilvl232
PLD ilvl225

Everyone has 230 weapons. War was on a different class when I tryed to check him on lodestone but he should be in a similar situation when it comes to gear.

The MNK did die that try. However if u check the previous kills the dps is still on the low side (mostly green).
The MNK has full lore gear + 230 weapon + 3x 240 accessories + grade V melds.
I am not saying that I want 90%+ score but being maxed out on gear (outside A7S/A8S) and still scoring in the 30's and 40's is a bit alarming.

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Like I said I know very little about other clases so I am hoping you guys could tell me things like
- This guy isn't using his CDs as soon as they are up, he waits for the goblin to become small which is an over all dps loss
- This guy dots falls off a lot
- This guy is loosing his stacks

Unless I come up with something specific for each guy, all discussions will go like "yeah we need to improve, I think once ppl get used to the fight the numbers will be better". Wich is sad considering many of us have been doing this fight for months and have many kills on it.

Scrub comment: you NEED to improve? Why? Are you having problems with dps on a later fight?

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Originally Posted by Ash_Smokespear

Scrub comment: you NEED to improve? Why? Are you having problems with dps on a later fight?

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That log was from A5S kill which every one of us has done for many times so far. Meaning everyone knows the fight pretty well.
The raid damage was enough to down the boss. However, I dont think we will make the cut for A7S/A8S if we stay the way we are.

Adjustments wont happen over night, this is a long process. We need to start now so when the time comes when we are close to downing A7S/A8S, we would have ironed all these little things that people are suggesting.

Some comments:
1. DRG is right where they should be.
-- Could possibly bump up a little, but with no NIN/MCH, can't say that there's much room for improvement.
-- I will note that if he's gonna hold the second DFD for the groper, he should hold the first for the snake - you can get both.
-- He's missing a couple Jumps, Leg Sweeps, Geirskoguls, and 1 SSD.
-- He misses the BRD with BL on the pull. Something for the BRD+DRG to work out. VERY important the BRD gets it.

2. BLM is low. Like. Low. Should be easily 1300-1400 or higher with a BRD in the party.
-- They drop Enochian - a LOT. Like. Way too much. It should fall off for the Boosts and nowhere else.
-- He is only stacking Ley Lines with Raging Strikes. Ley is 90s, Raging is 180s. Should be an even 2:1 relationship.
-- With Foe behind him, there's no excuse for being so low on the DPS unless........

3. BRD is also low. Really low. Should be pulling 1200+ with a DRG, especially one of that caliber who never lets DE drop.
-- He's not using Foe. He uses it on pull, then never again, as if it's some sort of terrible idea to utilize the BLM's dps (who is doing way more)
-- He's using a LOT of Rain of Death. Why? 23 RoD v 18 BL. Granted, a lot of the RoD is AoE, but not all of it is.
-- His Barrage desyncs from his HE+B4B bursts somehow, being used several seconds later. That's bad.
-- DoTs in the last phase are sporadic at best, which is something he should work on.
-- Loses a few ogcds throughout the fight.

4. MNK is depressingly low. He was not doing "okay" before his death - he was still a solid 300+ behind the mark, at 1100-1200.
-- He drops GL3 in the middle between Boosts at one point, likely for second Bombs Away.
---- If it's during that, this is a bad group strategy that should be addressed to assist your MNK in maintaining GL on that phase.
---- Pull the boss out of the corner before the bombs drop so MNK can keep punching before you need to run to the safe corner.
-- His DoT uptime seems pretty good!
-- 70.6% Crit rate on Bootshine = missed positionals
-- Howling Fist - 60s cd - used 5x in a 6:12 parse (should be 6-7)
-- Shoulder Tackle - 30s cd - used 4x in a 6:12 parse (should be 12-14)
-- Elixir Field - 30s cd - used 9x in a 6:12 parse (should be 12-14 - might be wrong since adds and junk, but 30s cd, so meh?)
---- There was a gap of 1m in Elixir Field between second boost and add spawn. An extra could have been squeezed in.
-- He ate Stone Curse. His own fault he died.

5. WAR is low.
-- Defiance shouldn't be an issue if he actually uses his cooldowns properly *cough Unchained cough*
-- He is using Defiance too much and can definitely cut back on that. You don't need it for tank busters.
-- 1 cast of Internal Release in a 7-minute fight.
-- 3 casts of Berserk in a 7-minute fight with a BRD who Paeans him when he uses it.
-- Storm's Eye falls off all the time. Good thing you don't have a NIN.
-- Fracture use is incredibly sporadic. Shouldn't always be used, no, but at least hit it on the pull before he gets big.


Overall issues:
-- You let the Oogle mobs throw bombs. LB is coming way too slow there - pick it up faster.
-- Likely have poor handling of the second Bombs Away. Know when it's happening and pre-move the boss closer to mid for melee uptime.


That's about all I can see at a quick glance.


ALSO:
Be sure to discuss NOW about the value of Vitality melds for the DPS in A6-8 progression. Everyone should be rocking 3-5 Vit V melds in their accessories for progression beyond 5. One wipe that's saved by a DPS holding on with 300 health is an incredible boon to making progress and clearing fights.

Anyone rocking less than 18.5-19.5k health going into A8S is holding the group back and adding hours to the progression time.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

The monk did die once at 6 min for the stone curse. So that reduces it by somewhat. At a quick glance he was playing otherwise well. He even kept his GL3 stacks at hummelfaust. Which I don't see from every monk. It's not hard but they don't realise how to time it.

But I'm on phone so I can't see everything so well for better analysis. Warrior could be higher tho. But is he doing the bombs or something? I'll look more when I get home if I remember

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I keep losing mine on hummel these past few days. The timing is off cus of the slight skill speed i lost for accuracy. Its annoying. Still clear it but damn the thing dies right when im in coeurl.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Snip

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Thank you sir for taking your time to look into the log and came up with all these points, this is what I was looking for.

If anyone else can add class specific points like Eve Malqir, please feel free to add.

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Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles

BLM ilvl230
BRD ilvl226
MNK ilvl231
DRG ilvl232
it.

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Oh wow. That's beyond extremely low for those ilvls. There are rotational issues. I only play monk so I can't speak for the others but being that low is probably in large part to bad fight optimization but I think there are issues with how he goes through his rotation/ opener. I'm on my phone and don't know if I care to analyze it even if I wasn't but if he heads to the monk thread on this forum, he'll learn a lot

Ah right I forgot to see about it better when I got home but I see someone else did a fine job at it instead. I haven't checked my personal logs so I can't say for 100% certainty but the mnk's missed positionals could be explained by him having the aggro from the oogle add so it's facing him most of the time and if you happened to have the stacking tank buster all the time he really can't get the positional then either. Unless you want to make him go get positional and take a little more dmg as the rest of the group. Which should be more than doable but shouldn't be necessary. Also one thing I'd want to ask. Is the monk always facing the target's he's attacking when changing positionals? I haven't got anything to compare the amount of autoattacks. That could be one more reason why his dps is lower.

Don't know much about other classes but I can go over MNK.
MNK was abysmally low and I see you stated he is currently ilvl231. This makes me think that he is either doing poor itemization or he's not making the most of his job and reading up on all potential areas to maximize DPS. Maybe if he had a gear score of 210 I would be more understanding but for his gear his numbers are too low. You all have stated you have cleared multiple times so he/she should be more comfortable with the fight and its mechanics that they should focus more on DPS since the mechanics should be known by now.

From what I can notice from the log of your kill...
He's not making use of oGCDs as often as they should be using them. There are times Steel Peak and Shoulder Tackle are just sitting around and not being used and I believe he did also miss out on an additional Elixer Field.

He also has a low usage of True Strike/Bootshine
True Strike-14
Twin Snakes-27
Bootshine-17
Dragon Kick-27
So in turn he's losing out on DPS because he's using Twin Snakes/Dragon Kick when he should be using True Strike/Bootshine so he's reapplying his buffs and debuffs far too much and not doing his Bootshine/True Strike enough.
Looks like he's not even getting in the bonus potency from not getting the right positionals either. We can't get them all, it happens but it looks like he's ignoring positionals a lot more than necessary. Comparing to my MNK's numbers and my MNK being 223-224 at the time, his AVG damage for several of his abilities were like 200 under mine even with him having more gear. So I assume he's missing out on positionals a lot which will tank his DPS in the long run. We as MNKs have to be greedy to a point, too safe and we risk too much DPS, too Greedy/tunneled and could result in death. If someone streams it might do you guys well to have him look back and see what areas he can fix.
He can also take time to AoE off of Yorn Pigs and throw in some Rockbreakers which will help kill adds and also put some DPS onto the boss.

Thats about all I can see on the MNK other than don't die.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

the mnk's missed positionals could be explained by him having the aggro from the oogle add so it's facing him most of the time

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I uh... what. He shouldn't ever be using any single-target GCDs on the Gobbledygawkers. Ever. Under any circumstance. No Monk should ever be doing this. Even if you're doing the (silly and less effective) method of forcing a melee (when your BLM and MCH can do it just fine on their own!) to kill the lone Gawker while you decide not to use the ranged LB to just kill everything in one shot for some reason, the MNK should be first priority staying on the boss. DRG and NIN are both more effective at getting to the gawker and back, especially since the DRG can have SSD and DFD and Elusive ready for that point.

Though, really, you should be using ranged LB or adjusting adds so mage LB hits them all. If you do neither and decide to leave a Gawker outside the LB circle, you should, like, stop doing that. In all honesty. xD

The rest of those ideas are pretty much spot-on to things that could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

snipsnip

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Our Smn has had so much difficulty with getting them all inside the LB that we decided we'll just kill that lone gawk with the remaining 3 dps since the fight doesn't have extreme dps checks it doesn't matter that much. I know it's not optimal but just thought they might have been doing the same cause of similar reason (and since I haven't remembered to see he charts at home after my 10+h work days I just thought that could be one of the reasons he's missing positionals).

Even though we do that I'm still 1,4k dps approximately every time we clear it (rest between 1,2 and 1,3k) so I don't think it's that drastic drop of dps. Losing about 6 seconds of uptime and few positionals.

But seeing as someone pointed out he's using weird number of every skill I'm starting to believe he doesn't even know his rotation properly.

Edit:
Looking at time line of "casts" it feels like he's trying to get the positional off rather than keeping to the rotation. Even though boothine is always 150 as dragon kick is 150 only at flank and he's replacing some bootshine with DK (assumeably when he couldn't get behind to get autocrit from boothine.) This doesn't really affect dps but might throw the rotation off.

Same happened with TwS and TrueS. In this case true strike would still be more potency from the flank without bonus than twin snakes is at flank with bonus. But this affects his dps. (Twin sakes is 140 at flank right? True strike I think without bonus is 150 or 160 and 180 or 190 with bonus. Can't really remember the potencies off of my head)

And then after being a bird :
DK (no form)> TwS > Demo > ToD > DK (with form) TwS again (3-4 GCDs too early).

He could drop one of his meditation before boss gets to them (assuming they all go to some corner to reposition the boss) and get form shift off to get DK effect and TwS effect as the same time so he doesn't have to do them twice likr he did. (And gets the blunt resist up right away)

BRD isn't keeping his dots up enough. His uptime on straight shot could be better, but you can retain dots even through boost and you should be doing that. 83-88% seems high, but for a fight like A5S you can have your dots up pretty much the entire encounter.
The low amount of casts on IJ can be attributed to that but also, it's a DPS gain to make iron jaws your next GCD after popping buffs so as to get two sets of buffed dots, seems he's not doing that.
Considering that you have a DRG in the group for Litany it seems like he's missing BL procs, though I can't guess on how awful RNG might get but the BL/RoD cast seems quite low.

He's not keeping blunt arrow on CD, actually missing quite a bit of uses, and only 1 repelling shot, even if he has bad latency it can still be used whenever he gets an SS proc or through one of the 7 uses of feint that he had in that parse. 5 casts of misery's end, ALL on ratfinx, meaning he's not using it on adds earlier on in the fight.

MNK -
Demolish uptime could be better. 441 seconds - 60 (he was dead) = 381, 64% uptime = 282 seconds. 100 seconds of demolish that isn't there.
It also seems they're missing a lot of AAs, though this can be blamed on RNG factors with how bombs land and whatnot (I don't know EXACTLY how this run went) but that could be something to look at as well, if they're turning away from targets too much/not utilizing lockon they could be missing AAs.
He was dead for a full minute and missed potential aoe near the end of the fight, he lost a good 150-200 DPS from his death which was his own fault but that's a number you can kinda tack on and go from there.


That's about all I can really pick up that the person on the last page didn't touch on. Just keep in mind A5S for parsing is pretty reliant on key pushes, and cutting down the encounter time makes a big difference. You need good group DPS to skip boost for example, but still, a group that can skip boosts will end much higher than a group that can't (that sounds really redundant or obvious, but you know what I mean)

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

Our Smn has had so much difficulty with getting them all inside the LB

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Hence why my post heavily implied that the better strategy is to use BRD/MCH LB instead and definitely catch everything. LB3 will kill it all with far less potential issues outside of BRD/MCH needs to first dodge Oogle before casting.