Speed of Relics and New iLVL Gear Patches

What's your opinion? Here's my 50 gil: I hate it.

RELIC
The Relic weapon hardly seems worth it if it's only the strongest weapon for maybe a month. The updates with new content and gear come way too fast and make the relic weapon obsolete until weeks later they add a new quest to bring the Relic up to the current max ilvl and then repeat the loop. It's holding me back knowing that soon a patch comes where I can buy, craft or farm a better weapon easier.

GEAR
The other gear is also coming too fast.When you get halfway collecting new gear, a patch is announced to bring higher ilvl gear or a change of currency, which they should stop doing as well. (They eventually found a way for Poetics to stay and gave other gear found different means of obtaining it!) I much rather see more options for the same ilvl than higher ilvl, giving the option of choosing between DET+CRIT or DET+ACC or ACC+CRIT, filling out the stat in which I lack.

I personally agree. I get that they are pushing patches out fast but it's becoming a bit assembly line. I wouldn't mind a slow down in gearing and maybe some more story or content patches that weren't gear based.

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Originally Posted by Gurpsmeister

I personally agree. I get that they are pushing patches out fast but it's becoming a bit assembly line. I wouldn't mind a slow down in gearing and maybe some more story or content patches that weren't gear based.

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I can agree to that.
Not to mention how fast the development team must be working to keep up with all the new looks...

Now that we can meld materia into our gear pieces, that itself could allow SE to slow down the treadmill a bit and also create different types of endgame with specialized materia pieces as rewards.

Or what if endgame rewards included abjurations that could be melded to enhance a piece of gear's power in a completely unique way?

There are many ways for developers to keep the game's vertical progression while adding more rewards for people to pursue. However, more rewards won't work unless we get a more diversified endgame scene.

x.0: Story mode, leveling, dungeon/tomestone gear at the end.
x.1: Raids released, both the 24 man and 8 man. Bit of sidequesting.
x.2: Story progression, maybe new dungeons.
x.3: More story, next part of the raids.
x.4: Story conclusion, new tomestones to catch up with the raids.

That would make the treadmill a little more varied, I think.

SE should focus more on what made Final Fantasy XI great, I mean stop just adding patches with lame relic upgrades (like 3.25) or patches that makes gear obsolete after a couple months and focus more on Main Story & Side Quets (honestly 3.2 Main Story Quest was a joke of how short and incomplete it was).
Also they should add the already requested more 24 players dungeons.
Also should be awsome if they add instances like FFXI's Sky/Sea where FC's or LS's could farm triggers to pop NM's.

Hopefully 3.3 doesnt come out before I finish 1 set of Lore Gear. I am kind of disappointed in the next step for relic weapon seeing how quickly it is obtained during normal play sessions.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Hopefully 3.3 doesnt come out before I finish 1 set of Lore Gear. I am kind of disappointed in the next step for relic weapon seeing how quickly it is obtained during normal play sessions.

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I think stage 4 is that quick BECAUSE of stage 3 honestly. Taken individually stage 3 might seem excessive to lots of people but when taken as a whole across all current stages I think 2 and 4 balance out the RNG of 1 and the grind of 3. This is also probably why we won't see a nerf to stage 3 for at least a little while.

Stage 3 gave a weapon comparable (disregarding secondaries) to a top raid ilvl weapon for the time with no super easy to get eso weapon upgrade item in sight until 3.2 dropped. That's why it was grindy. The upgrade to 245 will be just as grindy if they put it in since it enroaches into raid ilvl territory. Presumably the lore weapon hits a dead end at 240.

Step 4 is a joke because the lore weapon unlocks tomorrow for non-raiders who kept up with the midan gears and have enough lore tomes to get the lore weapon which is i230. Would be seen as completely not worth it to people who also thought that about Step 3 if it took another month grind when you can just pick up the lore weapon.

They've already said that the relic will always be behind the raiding gear until the very end. Just like it was in ARR. So, by the time 4.0 is about to roll around that's when the completed relic will be BiS because of time spent in acquiring it.

It takes three months to gear up one class, in a game where leveling alts is an important aspect. You could go with the faster but not as good equipment and be done in a month, but before long you won't be able to do anything meaningful with that gear.
I wish they gave us things to do instead of things to grind. That's one of the things WoW does better than this game. You only need a few sets of gear anyway, and the best gear isn't that much better than the good gear. But here, it's a constant gear grind.

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Originally Posted by Zorafin

It takes three months to gear up one class, in a game where leveling alts is an important aspect. You could go with the faster but not as good equipment and be done in a month, but before long you won't be able to do anything meaningful with that gear.
I wish they gave us things to do instead of things to grind. That's one of the things WoW does better than this game. You only need a few sets of gear anyway, and the best gear isn't that much better than the good gear. But here, it's a constant gear grind.

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Agreed 100%

The relic for 3.0 completely destroy the whole ideal of having multiple job with their relic on one character, I sure as hell not going to grind all 3 for my tank

It's like locking paid content behind a very thick wall

it would be great to see ZNM-like hunts as well as an actual expansion that can be done starting at an earlier point and is not part of the main ARR/Heavensward storyline. Like how in XI Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Promathia were loosely connected to your nation's storyline and then went their own way, yet influence the world.

Heavensward feels more like an extension than an expansion.

3.0 relic is just a grind for grind's sake for those who like it. It doesn't need to get stronger or change look, those people would do it anyway, the reward is the grind itself.

Is it a waste of an iconic weapon of the franchise? Yeah, but it's not like they're putting any effort into it, so it's not exactly a waste of resources either, and it keeps those people happy.

Remove weekly tome cap and increase reward/lower cost to that of current Eso and Law tomes.

Problem solved.

People argue that this will kill the game. It absolutely will not.

It will encourage raising and encourage levelling more than one class.

People are content with time gear because it\\'s almost as good as raid gear and it takes a long time to get.

Tome gear should ONLY be meant as a starter set to get you into raiding. It should NOT be a main set.

Keep the weekly lockouts on raids.

Lower the requirements for relics OR make them stay relevant longer through means of horizontal progression.

OR

keep the current system and add more ways of obtaining multiple pieces/sets of tome quality gear in a reasonable amount of time.

I haven\\'t raided in HW 1 because Alex is boring compared to Coil and primal a are more interesting now. 2. Because I\\'m gearing 3 jobs

The current relic system would have been TOTALLY acceptable and a reasonable goal had it been released along side heavensward

Also forgive that I'm not editing posts. Mobile version of forum has no edit option.

I really hope they change the way gear is obtained and the way gear is used.

As another poster said, there were multiple sets of gear in WoW and even the best sets weren't much better than the others. There were multiple raids that were relevant at a given time (people were still running Naxx and ICC normal when ICC heroic was released)

The problem with this game isn't even vertical progression. The problem is that the game retroactively nullifies all of its previous tiers every patch.

This is NOT how vertical progression is supposed to work.

Back in FF11 people wanted vertical progression. Because it meant having to clear one stage to get to another to get to another.

Lastly, back in ARR right at its release with Darklight... I saw it as something great.

I saw "here work a few weeks to unlock this decent gear so you can raid. Then after you beat the raid, you'll have better gear for being another raid!"

I mean there's no point in raiding even because even the raid gear becomes useless after the patch.

In other games, you clear raids... TO CLEAR MORE RAIDS.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

In other games, you clear raids... TO CLEAR MORE RAIDS.

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hmmm? i clear raids because is FUN and challenging , hell i farmed Final coil even knowing there was "nothing left" after that ....

Just waiting on them to add the materia fusion to the relic.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

They've already said that the relic will always be behind the raiding gear until the very end. Just like it was in ARR. So, by the time 4.0 is about to roll around that's when the completed relic will be BiS because of time spent in acquiring it.

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Folks need to remember that the relic weapons are a gear path that was deliberately added for non-raiders to have a way to get good gear. So saying it becomes obsolete within a month is really not very accurate if you consider the relic from the point of view of a player who doesn't raid, or run EX trials. For those players the relic matters, and it's for that group that this exists as a way to obtain a good weapon through grinding not raiding.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Folks need to remember that the relic weapons are a gear path that was deliberately added for non-raiders to have a way to get good gear. So saying it becomes obsolete within a month is really not very accurate if you consider the relic from the point of view of a player who doesn't raid, or run EX trials. For those players the relic matters, and it's for that group that this exists as a way to obtain a good weapon through grinding not raiding.

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As I see it, the tome weapon is actually the casual friendly weapon. As far as the relic goes, i feel like it is not a casual path for a non raider to go down. Sure the content is easy enough to do. The grind however I would say is more towards the midcore level. Most people who I know, casual as in no raiding/ex trials, who spend a few hours a day playing, will not be done with the grinder step until the weapon is obsolete. So they would be unable to get any use out of it.

I'm doing the relic, however I guess it's just me who considers it a midcore grind. I know it was intended to be a casual weapon from the devs. I just don't feel that it is really a casual grind. Also I look at all the content that is endgame and I think really all someone needs is a lore weapon to be decent at it. A relic weapon is just a hobby weapon at this point to me. If you have the time and gil you may get some use out of it if you complete the current relic step fast enough or depending on your class use it as glamour over the lore weapon.

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

As I see it, the tome weapon is actually the casual friendly weapon. As far as the relic goes, it is not a casual path for a non raider to go down. Sure the content is easy enough to do. The grind however I would say is more towards the midcore level. Most people who I know, casual as in no raiding/ex trials, who spend a few hours a day playing, will not be done with the grinder step until the weapon is obsolete. So they would be unable to get any use out of it.

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It would depend how far behind the power curve they are playing. Both tome and relic weapons are something of a grind since you either grind tomes or you grind out whatever the relic requires. I can accept tom weapons be casual player friendly, up to a point. The reason I say up to a point is that I think casual players are unlikely to be capping the top tier tomes, so they are still chasing well behind the curve.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It would depend how far behind the power curve they are playing. Both tome and relic weapons are something of a grind since you either grind tomes or you grind out whatever the relic requires. I can accept tom weapons be casual player friendly, up to a point. The reason I say up to a point is that I think casual players are unlikely to be capping the top tier tomes, so they are still chasing well behind the curve.

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I agree that the lore weapon can be grind in its self in terms of capping tomes every week. I also think the tome grind is the worst enemy of the relic. I know its a good thing when I like to gear out alts with it. I just think the casual crowd sees it as better than relic considering it's more straightforward of a grind.

Would actually like them to slow the introduction of new gear down somewhat yup.

There won't be a gear update until the next wing of alexander which I wouldn't expect for like 6 months personally, not counting the catch up gear that'll be in the next wing of void ark. It's fine how it is.

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Originally Posted by Eirwen

What's your opinion? Here's my 50 gil: I hate it.

RELIC
The Relic weapon hardly seems worth it if it's only the strongest weapon for maybe a month. The updates with new content and gear come way too fast and make the relic weapon obsolete until weeks later they add a new quest to bring the Relic up to the current max ilvl and then repeat the loop. It's holding me back knowing that soon a patch comes where I can buy, craft or farm a better weapon easier.

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I don't know about you, but I do the relic for glamour. (And sometimes just the grinding process itself -- it gives me something to do.)

Yes, basically, SE created a competition. Where you chase this weapon then that weapon, just to keep us doing something. I agree, I don't like it myself.

Speaking of relic process, I believe it's not about how long it takes to get an anima, but what we truly receive in return. Acquiring relic weapon should be hard and time consuming process - and for all our work that we did, in patch 3.25, this weapon should of had at least ilevel235 or 240 (all stats are adjusted). Maybe SE don't have to change the patterns, but simply adjust stats and make it reasonable each update.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

It will encourage raising and encourage levelling more than one class.

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Tbh im against alts as it breeds sucky players because they dont focus on mastering one job first, instead they become jack of all trade master of none and you really dont want them in your party.

I have to say before I used to dismiss these threads but lately I find myself agreeing. I'd like to see gear remain relevant longer. I have no solutions to this but it does seem a little off to me. I also like the idea of multiple difficult raids running concurrently and remaining relevant for the majority of the expansion cycle. Sadly I don't think this is possible at present since they admitted that their battle team is very small/limited.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the relic will be obsolete next patch. Yoshida or whoever said, in the Q & A that the next relic step will come in 3.3. We can only assume it may be i240 or possibly i240. With primal weapons being i235 or i240. I thought the gear pacing in this patch was good. Sephirot was good for 7 weeks if you didn't raid. You had to put aside 1,000 lore for the weapon so you most likely won't have too much lore gear. Next patch will have 24man gear which should add i230 gear and ways to upgrade lore. I kept a couple Gordias(NM) pieces all the way to 3.2.

I also don’t agree with the statement that the Relic becomes obsolete whenever a new patch is released. I’ve been using the Relic as means to improve my gear, while tackling the current Raids.

When i was running Coil with my friends, i would gear up my class with the best gear i could get my hands on while trying to clear each turn. There were times where we were struggling to clear a turn, because we could only meet the DPS requirements if we had a perfect run. Since we’re all human, we do make mistakes every once and awhile.

Getting the Relic was helpful in gaining that little bit more DPS to push the fight in our favor. And i’ve been using the Relic like that ever since then.

The 3rd Phase of the Anima Relic proved to be quite the task to complete, since i could only get the Unidentifiable items by buying them with Tomes. I was way behind on the Beastmen Tribes in order to get their currencies. I also didn’t have a gatherer level to the point where i could farm Maps and try to get the Unidentifiable items through that and i don’t have the money to get the maps from the Market Boards (even if i wanted to).

But, after that, the quest requires you to get 4 HQ Crafted items for each of the Quest objectives. Since i can’t make those items myself, nor the means to get the materials for them, i would have to resort to buying the items from the market boards.

I’m probably not the only one who had to handle the Anima quest that way, so i understand that people were feeling that the Relic was not worth the effort.

However, i’m still using the Relic, because our group hasn’t gotten to the point where we could gather and work on getting the Sepirot Weapons. Since the Lore weapons required a 7 Midan Gears (an item which drops from Midas 4) and you could only get 1 per week, if would take us 7 weeks to get the 230 Lore Weapon anyway.
Since Yoshida mentioned that the next Relic tier would be released with 3.25, i figured that they would release it near the time that players would be able to get the 7th Midan Gear. Because of this, i decided to wait with upgrading my weapon by saving up Tomes for the Lore Weapon, to see what was required for the next Relic tier. This game me time to upgrade other items, like the left side gear with Tomes and the accessories with Midan (iLvl220) items.

I have 7 Midan gears now and almost the required Lore Tomes to buy a Lore weapon, however i’m only 200 Esoterics away from upgrading my Relic to 230. So, in the end, it evened out and basically managed to get 2 230 weapons.

During this, i kept collecting more Unidentifiable items for a 2nd Anima Relic and i’m halfway in completing that one. By the time i complete the 3rd phase of the 2nd Anima Relic, i should have close to the amount of Aether Oils required to upgrade that 2nd Relic to 230. Just by running the weekly CT’s.

Around that time, we should have arrived in Patch 3.3, where the next relic tier should be available.

I’m actually satisfied with the pace i’m going about getting my upgrades. The 210 Relics are still a viable option for me since the release of 3.2 and 3.25. I might not get the best weapons available as fast as the Top Raiding teams, but i’m still getting there in the end.

The only thing i would like is that the FFXIV wouldn’t require us to get HQ Crafted items, which can only be made by a select group of people. Due to this, i would have to resort to the Market Boards and those items are rather expensive. I mean, it cost me 4.8M to buy all of the HQ Crafted items for my first relic and the projected cost for the 2nd Relic is still around 4.5M on my server.

I only have time to grind 1 set (or 1.5 set) of the BiS gears every time they release a new one.... I wish they can slow down too.