I was curious on people's opinion in both subjects. NMs I think were a great addition in both ffxi and 1.0 ffxiv. They gave a sense of hunting and camping in the real world, something this game gives little insentive on. Whats more is they gave interesting gear as a side option. Granted, ffxi was plagued with problems when these items were sellable and overpowered, but Ffxiv 1.0 hit a nice mark of giving unique, but not expecially powerful gear. They introduced hunts, but honestly that's just another tome farm.
Also for the second, it would be nice to have a few real world dungeons. Nothing mandatory but an option for small/large groups to go through without an instance. Maybe it be maze like, hidden rooms/floors/levers... SOMETHING aside just run left, right or straight.
Heck combine both. Put an insane NM at the end. My issue is that everything has become farming in terms of tomes or parts. With the overwhelming options for currency->gear, an option would be nice
Return of NM's and Real World Dungeons
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03-30-2016, 07:33 AMKeramoryReturn of NM's and Real World Dungeons
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03-31-2016, 02:52 PMKaldor
NMs dropped very powerful gear for their level range and if they were tradeable just became a farm spot for gil sellers, leveling is so easy the gear would be instantly irrelevant. I would prefer bcnm that were challenging and gave relevant loot, could be furnishing,mounts or minions or craft material but i dont see it happening for a while not till at least 4.1
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03-31-2016, 03:30 PMKeramory
Someone replied... Yay ;.;
And yeah, non ex gear caused insane problems for ffxi. It lightened with ex however. In 1.0, for a brief while we had NMs that dropped middle level gear. Wasn't insanely powerful but it was fairly unique.
People can argue that it's not worth putting in because of quick leveling, however obtaining gear through a 30-40 minute dungeon with rng or leveling crafting isn't exactly quick. The only quick method is the AH, which I don't believe should limit completely viable content. -
03-31-2016, 03:43 PMsilentwindfr
simply no, if the server was not that much packed it will be a nice add, sadly with the server as they are, if this place become a place where get loot, it will simply broken, because people will simply zerg it.
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03-31-2016, 03:44 PMNektulos-TuorNot if the loot is groupwide only. If you couldn't share loot per kill it would be impossible to Zerg. Also, locked encounters.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
You form groups inside and only the group that pulls first gets whatever loot drops off the bosses/trash monsters.
It makes zerging pointless.
Also, raids would make them drop 'nothing' and broken chests. -
03-31-2016, 03:50 PMKeramorySorry but what server are you on where even if that would become an issue, there would be multiple people camping NMs at any given time? Because I'm on a highly populated one and we can't even get people for Odin half the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
To be fair, when the content first comes out there would be a high volume of campers. That will quickly go down after a month or two however. When they did it in 1.0 I can only think of 2 scenarios of when I was farming some mask against someone else. Wasn't even bad, we were polite and the one guy got it first... So I had to wait.. A whole 5 minutes to get it myself. -
03-31-2016, 03:55 PMJynx
Having Notorious Monsters ala XI wont work for how this game is structured. The NM's worked part in parcel due to the fact that many of them took time or effort to even get to it's spawn location let alone claim the monster.
One couldn't camp Valkurm emperor and then hop over to Hoo Mjuu the torrent without a notable time lag between camps and possible missed spawns.
The gear they dropped was relevant for years and years, bringing with it a market for the goods as most of them were sellable giving people without the time to camp the items the option to obtain them through the Auction House, giving people more ways and reasons to move their gil around.
FFXIV works in a very different way.
- Most gear bound to your character with no option to sell
- Travel is a non existent notion
- Maps are small even outside the teleports
- Overworld is not dangerous at all making camping anything just a waiting game
- The average player attitude towards this kind of system has changed dramatically.
- The claim systen in XIV is counter-intuitive to "Hunting" a monster as claim is shared based on initial claim and then DPS this would need to be changed to a solid claim system.
If this was ever to be introduced it would need to be during an expansion where they can set a open world area or regions aside, restrict travel, introduce unique items that can be sold on the market to either craft or just be solid items themselves. it would require a entirely new paradigm of gameplay mechanics that are not existent in the current game as it is today. It's definitely not something they will add over a patch (Unless they want it stillborn like Diadem), the developers have a pretty good track record of churning on the Peter Molynuex style of game development where they promise the world, churn out something sub-par, apologize and then promise to do it better next time condemning their previous actions.
Look at the housing system for example.
A - The concept: Players housing will be available to all character and will have awesome features like company crafts, tower additions for special company boosts, a slew of other things. Allowing all companies to own their own slice of paradise and a fortress to call home.
B - The implementation: Housing is limited insanely expensive on some servers due to a small sum of players retaining a large percentage of the entire servers gil surpluss, features like company crafting are nowhere to be seen and other concepts are literally never spoken of again.
C - The apologies: "Hey guys sorry we goofed, we will soon be looking at stuff like company crafting and expanding the housing items limit and adding a basement to the pathetically small (Small) house, but hey we got a new system for personal housing it's gonna blow your socks off as it's separate from the company housing system and will be more affordable to individual players.
D - Back where we started: Instead of implementing the new features as we spoke about them...you get to share the allready limited housing plots with existing companies and that thing about affordability...yeah we kind of don't want to talk about that right now we worked hard on flipping the ownership switches you know! -
03-31-2016, 04:06 PMsilentwindfrmostly because we are on old server means most people already own all the stuff from odin and such, you don't remember how some server did simply die because of odin at some point?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Keramory
or the mess that was hunt until the reduce the reward into it?
it's how work the mankind, if you place a reward like this everyone will want it, means you will have not 10 nor 20 nor 30 but hundred of person that will do everything for get them. about the groupwide reward, believe me it will be worst than solve any trouble...
World content have a huge flaws: "no way to control the number of participant" even if you balance the content for a group of 4-8-24 player, you will never have this number of people, without forget that you have too the chocobo, if you have 24 person in raid, or 24 person alone with them chocobo it change all...
world content can't work, hunt was a perfect example of it. they had to change the number of hp of the monster and even like this at some point a rank S was simply destroyed in a few second.
world dungeon will end with more player than monster creating a perfect place for toxic behaviour... then simply no.
ps: a nice reminder, a server is about 5000-6000 character (if not more now, since they are old number given by yoshida), if you have an area that will drop item wanted by people, for cosmetic, mount or simply stats, you will have tons of people wanting to have this item. NM can't work because the world is too packed right now... 1 NM will simply be over farmed or melted by the mass of player wanting it.
worst after sometimes, when everyone will have it, this area will be empty, and if it recquire a group it will be extremely hard to find people for do it.
and since they don't want to loose space on the server, create an area that can become empty and not used is a trouble for them, then don't hope for it. this sort of content is outdated anyway. -
03-31-2016, 05:31 PMThe_NPC
arn't they planning to add "Random Instance" dungeons to treasure chests as a possible thing in a future patch? can't do links even if I find it as I use my PS4 to serf the net & type here
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03-31-2016, 05:40 PMShinsakiThey said you have a chance of being directed towards a treasure dungeon from doing certain maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_NPC
This sort of content is not outdated. It's just not viable in this game because we don't have a range of additional stats that would make the gear useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
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03-31-2016, 07:26 PMFelisIn 1.0 that was solved with battle leves. Every party had their own monster spawns.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6f9Gy0uws
And most time open world dungeons are like every other open world map, just subterrain. -
03-31-2016, 07:39 PMMael-bessI agree with Silentwindfr in this content is outdated. Any game, that i've played, that has open world bosses or areas just become zergfests and turn to be completely empty when they stop being relevant. Hunts are a nice example of them, you either got certain hunts that are completely abandoned or others that get massive zergs and get downed in seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinsaki
This sort of content is not outdated. It's just not viable in this game because we don't have a range of additional stats that would make the gear useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
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03-31-2016, 08:14 PMTerribad
I'm always for actual open world content. Maybe make the dungeons like how Rappelz dungeons were.
Really huge so several parties could enter, easy for people to get lost in, LOTS of bosses. Maybe also make another where pvp is enabled? (Before you start screaming at me about even suggesting that. If you don't like PvP don't do it.) -
03-31-2016, 08:58 PMAriaEniaWhy don't make your obtained loots to drop when get killed, just like a certain game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terribad
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03-31-2016, 09:06 PMsilentwindfreven if i want battle leves to be bring back in more updated version, NM and battleleve are not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
one is a free for all monster that have a fixed time of spawn after it death. the other is a semi instancied boss that you can spawn at will.
the open world dungeon are true simply area with monster stronger, but like said they are place that tend to end empyt and unused. in the V1 you had a large part of the map that no one was never using... because filled with monster of group that recquire well equiped full group for defeated them or simply because they was filled with monster level 70-99...
Yoshida hava always said that they was monitoring the area utility and refuse to add this sort of content that will lead to unused data on the server. and i think he is right, what the point of create a content that one can lead to toxic behaviour or simply time where we don't play and wait for respawn.
that why i say it's outdated as content, we all pay for play this game right, all the time we spend with the game open at do nothing is simply idiot... open world content often lead to that. because with soo many people per server, you can be sure that we will wait for respawn all the time...
for make it short, why add space in the world that will go unused or over used, because you will never find the right balance. worst about the NM, what the point to add something that will anyway be free win and create toxicity.... because NM have no challenge value nor risk.... it's simply wanting to have free loot handed.... -
03-31-2016, 09:35 PMFelisNM from special leves worked in 1.xQuote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
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03-31-2016, 09:45 PMCherie
I'd love to see some impossibly hard notorious monster out in the wilds with corpses of players all around it. I mean, many of us like to raid but how can the masses not get excited about the prospect of some dangerous monster that can beat you up like you are made of paper that isn't in some instance but in our actual normal zones? It could linger outside busy areas of the game just tossing people about which would demand that the community do something about it as it would be a nuisance.
I know many would say "we can't do that, what about people trying to just play the game normally?! Think of the children!" But that is exactly the reasoning. Then people CAN be a bonifide hero to some poor someone by actually helping them out by actually doing something heroic/difficult right in front of them. Maybe you will get one shot and die but even so, just the chance for some heroism in this game would be cool. Think if you can actually make a difference? I know many of you never played "Rift" but back in it's heyday, that was a major mechanic of that game. Enemy forces and a boss would take over ANY zone and the higher up players would try to beat them back.... The badguys could win and if they did whole questhubs and major areas got shutdown until they got bored and despawned or people took the areas back by force.... But I'm not asking for any of that... I'll settle for one badarse notorious monster raising hell that can't be beaten by the zerg rush 4 minutes after it spawns.
Whats the fun in a wimpy S-Rank monster that doesn't even path around the zone and just stands there unwittingly? It feels like shooting ducks in a barrel... :/ The S-Rank wasn't hurting anyone and we went and killed it. Those monsters need to go mess people up and "hunt" for us, instead of the reverse. Then we have a reason to kill it besides farming them for points. We are really the badguys in the current system... We kill wide animals so we get points to buy random stuff we don't really need... Wild animals who weren't even hurting anyone except maybe someone foolish enough to poke it with a stick. -
03-31-2016, 09:57 PMRiceisNiceFel Reaver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie
Never Forget. -
03-31-2016, 10:07 PMTerribadWhat?Quote:
Originally Posted by AriaEnia
/10whats -
03-31-2016, 10:09 PMAraminaQuote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
I see the name written and hear the noise.... that was the thing of nightmares. -
03-31-2016, 10:35 PMKalleraThe problem is that the combat system is literally incapable of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie
I would like ilvl to be taken into account when designing mobs for current and future zones. the toughest open world mobs are at lvl60, but designed for a roughly i140 character to defeat. they are paper tigers by now. can't there be mobs that can be a challenge even at the tier past i240 roaming around? and plan their inclusion ahead of time? -
03-31-2016, 11:18 PModintius
The only way I see this not being turn into a zerg fest is apply some rules my suggestion are have a new hunt were free company members group together. Have those hunts appear on a FC request board to be done by your members with variety of difficulty settings from 4,8,24 man options fights and can participate up to what ever # of them on a daily bases and are only claimable by your FC once you've found the location. They could even use old dungeon sections once you learn location like they do for some of the story missions for the harder ones.
The one thing on the down side is the reward system of this game with being so extremely vertical IMO they need more alternate ways of gearing up options beside tomes and Alexander IMO. One thing they should do is have an item or items to be able to upgrade dungeon gear up at least to tomes gear because honestly some stats on those gear if upgraded would be superior to lore.
The materia system could be upgraded IMO for a slight horizontal progress in the game as well with interesting stats like +5% healing potency for example none of these I don't see happening in 3.0 series but 4.0 and beyond I hope they mix up the formula some. -
03-31-2016, 11:24 PMTeuciont
Why they don't use the 'claim' system already implemented with treasure hunts and leves is beyond me. I'm also dumbfounded that they've already gone out of their way to point out that the treasure dungeons will be another helping of casual content. The concept sounds fantastic, the fervor for declaring its low difficulty not so much.