The Lore Gameplay is awesome here, but what if there were a tournament set into Electronic Sports? Or if it were more delicate? Like have more impact of effects? Possibly be the coolest thing ever?
New Lore Gameplay!
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03-24-2016, 05:32 AMsteevyfoxNew Lore Gameplay!
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03-24-2016, 11:18 AMMilesSaintboroguh
...um....what are you trying to say?
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03-24-2016, 01:28 PMKaiser-Ace
Uuuuh. Is he saying that he want Lore to be expanded or that he wants the PvP to be more like MOBA games? Or he wants more visible over world changes to reflect the story?
I read through it a few times and I can't locate enough proper sentance structure to tell what his actual subject was. -
03-24-2016, 02:06 PMCyrilLucifer
He's clearly saying he wants to be lore accurate and add a third dimension to our battling abilities, so that we can all fly around and shoot End of Days at our enemies.
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03-24-2016, 02:23 PMRhodkr
Hmm when I first read it I thought he was talking about something like a Lore Gameshow, where people have to answer questions about lore stuff. But on further rereads.... I have absolutely no idea.
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03-24-2016, 03:30 PMTheodric
He clearly wants to turn the lore debates here into a professional e-sport. I can see it now - Cyril representing the Ascians, Fenral representing G'raha Tia and myself representing Garlemald.
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03-24-2016, 03:40 PMCiri_Wolf
He wants our characters in the game playing League of Legends at tournaments. I'm not sure what champ my character would main, though.
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03-24-2016, 04:08 PMCyrilLuciferThis is the best idea I've ever heard. Second to mine up there, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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03-25-2016, 01:42 AMRoclSo you and Cyril will make secret deals in which she double-crosses you and Fenral locks himself in a tower? I feel like there's a real lack of representation of Team Hydaelyn though..Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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03-25-2016, 06:10 AMKaiser-AceMe, Moose Sensei, and Enkidu Senpai have that covered. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocl
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03-25-2016, 07:20 AMCyrilLuciferI don't know, even Moose is starting to see the light of Balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
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03-25-2016, 03:20 PMMorningstar1337Come over the Dark Side, we have cookies! Oh and esoteric information of life, The universe, and everything that Hydealyn is tight lipped aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
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03-25-2016, 09:18 PMAnonymooseI believe my sentiment was, "Don't you make a fool outta me, Hydaelyn," lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
I'm standing my ground as being on "Team Hydaelyn", but I sense something amiss in the aether, so to speak. While most people are still rallying behind black and white theories, I feel the tingling presence of the gray, and it does give me pause. But I've yet to see anyone really rallying behind that specific interpretation, either. Lemme lay it out. (This is as close to a prediction theory as I'll be getting for 3.2, so if you want to quote/grade me on any of them, this'll probably be it until 3.3, lol. We'll copy and paste it as needed.)
Taken at face value, this patch seems to actually support that the Ascian endgame is terribad for us (mortal children of Hydaelyn).
Before all life, the planet was manifest by two forces - Zodiark of the Darkness, and Hydaelyn of the Light.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
Allegation: Zodiark was too greedy, increasing His power over Hydaelyn and threatening the balance. In order to prevent Him from destroying Her, She literally split their soul in twain and banished Him to the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
This action was so severe that the dimensional boundary was sundered.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
Note that word: "reflection". Not copies, but mirror images. So this world, the original world, was broken into Planet and Moon. However, the cracking dimensional boundary caused 13 cosmological enantiomers to fan outwards from it, trapping shards of Light and Darkness's power beyond our realm.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
The Ascians, considered the "apostles" of Zodiark, labor to see the shards of Darkness united, which will see Him restored to being - the Second Coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
There is a boundary which separates our world (the original) from each of the mirrored worlds. Because this is where the dimensions cracked, the boundaries must be undone from this side, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
Look at that - all three English terms in the same sentence, and implying that the sentence which came before defines them. Let's bring in the other languages, too. Ardor. Calamity. Rejoining. Spirit Disaster. Dimension Deletion. Nova.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
This event is the successful destruction, from our side of the veil, of a boundary to another world - effectively destroying that world and merging its shards back downwards through the fan.
When Louisoix "half" prevented the seventh Calamity, he prevented the society-collapsing disaster that usually accompanies a Rejoining. But he did not prevent the destruction of a world barrier, or the recollection of its shard, and thus was Zodiark empowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice of the Mother
So where does that leave us?
Seven worlds have been destroyed, and Hydaelyn is begging us to thwart the Ascian agenda and prevent the destruction of the rest. Why? Because, as far as She's told us, the merged powers of Darkness will resurrect both Him and the imbalance of power that He had accumulated - meaning that He can destroy Her.
The tinglings of "gray panic" enter here. Nabriales flat out called on the void to return existence to "perfect darkness". Elidibus claims he just wants to put things back on "the right track". At first glance, that now seems possible, doesn't it? Maybe when Elidibus claimed he was different than his bretheren, what he meant was that he doesn't want void to eat everything, he just wants to break down the boundaries to the mirrored worlds and heal the dimensional barrier - reunite everything into one world again. Hunky dory right? The true world, as it was meant to be, in perfect harmony.
How can I still be on Team Hydaelyn!? ... EXCEPT
One, this all hinges on whether Zodiark would not immediately use His accumulated and restored imbalance of power to absolutely destroy Hydaelyn. And why would He show restraint? Read the New Years poem. He loathes Her. Even Lahabrea says that as soon as Zodiark rises again, She's toast. So much for balance.
And two, let's say Zodiark does agree to play nice and give back His stolen power. Where does that leave us? You know, the mortals that were created way later. The ones that have been living pretty much just fine on this halved cosmos (aside from when Zodiark's minions come breaking down our walls). The ones that probably depend on things that come with having a moon. Like tides. And a stable axis of rotation. Do we get to keep that junk? Does He suffer our existence? Not of the last 10,000 years are any hint. But Elidibus must have faith in Him to act as His Emissary to our kind. Maybe we'd be okay. Maybe Zodiark would compromise in a truly balanced world.
I figured you'd be dead by now. How downright kooky!Quote:
Originally Posted by Elidibus
But there's the "gray panic" again! What if that's a hint that Hydaelyn will protect our existence when Zodiark returns!?
Everything could turn out okay!
Say goodbye to everything you know. It's for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elidibus
Oh.
So, yes. Elidibus makes my resolve waver a bit. There's actually a pretty wide open door for Hydaelyn to be lost, and Zodiark to be lost and some-the-hells-how we retain something of the world we spent the whole game fighting for. But it's not so much that I can uproot my faith in the Crystal, just yet. She's done right by me so far. That and I maintain that the story is way more interesting if Elidibus is paving our road to the Seventh Hell with the illusion of best intentions. They do keep calling Zodiark the One True God. That's certainly not very reassuring.
...
Don't you make a fool outta me, Hydaelyn. -
03-25-2016, 09:55 PMFenralFixed. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
Honestly, I think this is the most important part of what she talked about. It has the potential to mean that the Ascians' objectives can be accomplished without calamitous loss of life on our side. Assuming we can find a reason to assist them, as Eldibus thinks we can, we may be able to get out of this without dropping any more moons on anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Change is also a part of life and nothing to be feared on its own. It really comes down to what that change is. If it has something to do with restoring some lost part of humanity Hydaelyn stripped away for fear of the darkness, well... I'm guessing the Echo is related, but that's as far as I've made it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
But back to the real topic...
I'll go ADC in bot lane with Cilia as support. Cyril go mid, Theodric go top. Kaiser-Ace, can you jungle? -
03-25-2016, 10:08 PMCyrilLucifer
We've so little to go off. I've repeated a lot of my thoughts before and this is basically calling for another 20 page argument that I'm not sure I want to indulge in, but sure.
I'm of the quoted belief; we're on the path that will destroy both Hydaelyn and Zodiark unless something changes. Just continuing to play this game of destroy the Ascian isn't going to solve the tiny, itty-bitty problem that Hydaelyn and Zodiark were split into instability the first place.Quote:
There's actually a pretty wide open door for Hydaelyn to be lost and Zodiark to be lost
Change needs to come, somehow. The root of the problem needs to be fixed and I don't believe destroying Zodiark is going to make all of our problems go away.
In regards to your Elidibus bit, I wouldn't be against us making a mistake on the larger scale, but I still say the story is more interesting if Hydaelyn did in Her best intentions, like Altana in XI when creating the new world with a future She favored, leading to all of existence being unbalanced.
I absolutely agree. If SE will go that path, well, it's just left to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
On it.Quote:
But back to the real topic...
I'll go ADC in bot lane with Cilia as support. Cyril go mid, Theodric go top. Kaiser-Ace, can you jungle?
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03-25-2016, 10:27 PMAnonymooseQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
Does it, though?Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
People turned out to be wrong in assuming that Louisoix half-prevented anything; that's just how it looked after the fact. The reality was exactly what the Ascians always do and claim must be done: absolute, unbound chaos. And it was even the same MO they've been using for ages: primals at war.
Phoenix and Bahamut tore each other, and Eorzea, apart. The fact that Phoenix just happened to rebirth the realm is kind of incidental. And it didn't bring anyone back from the dead, either. We lost a lot of people. Society just didn't collapse into a barren landscape, for once. Is there any way to use that knowledge to our benefit?
I can come up with one kind-of workable plan, so far. [1] Trust Elidibus. Disregard Hydaelyn's last wishes through the Voice of the Mother; assume she's wrong. [2] Grab Tupsimati and let people know we're gonna need some prayers. [3] Make Elidibus promise that he'll tear the world just enough of a new one to initiate a Rejoining and that none of the acolytes in black will pull any funny business. [4] Chaos hits. Primalize someone to fix it. [5] Hope that it was worth it and not too many people died and that when Zodiark returns, the change makes it look like we maintained everything we fought for.
Sounds risky, though. -
03-25-2016, 10:50 PMFenralWe've been known to claim a lot of things "must" be done on our end, and Matoya just laughed at us. I think it's less a matter of "it must be done like __ because the universe is built that way" and closer to "we must do it like __ because the alternatives we've explored are all riskier on our end." We have to look past the means used and into what exactly is required to happen on a cosmological scale. It's not like atomic bombs can only be detonated on civilian populations, the same exact explosion happens whether you drop it on a city or out in a cordoned-off and unpopulated patch of desert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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03-25-2016, 10:58 PMAnonymooseUsed as a metaphor for what's going on in FFXIV, I wholly agree with you. And that's giving me a bit of the "gray panic". However, if an extradimensional entity aligned with "The Devil" tried to convince me that it was in my best interest to nuke a bunch of unpopulated areas... I'd probably still have some questions. And it might not help my confidence if his answers were super vague. Or that the last time his friends got involved, was like, Hitler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
But I'm not saying he's definitely wrong.
I just see the bandwagon stopped outside my house and... I think I need a minute, lol. -
03-25-2016, 11:04 PMFenralI'd like to think he means well in wanting us to figure things out for ourselves before he gets too expodumpy. If we can get a neutral third party (*cough*Midgardsormr*cough*) to explain the workings of the universe, and then hear how Eldibus's version lines up, that would actually be the best way to get us to trust him. But a lot needs to happen to get us there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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03-25-2016, 11:55 PMRhodkr
Interesting discussion going on! I'll admit in the Hydaelyn vs Zodiarc side of things, I've pretty much remained neutral. Not that I see the need for either mind you, I'm more weary of both. Hydaelyn has protected us and all, but then goes and does what she did in 3.2. Zodiarcs thing cuased the deaths of hundereds of thousands if not millions of people throughout time. We know Zodiarcs wiling to sacrifice people, if Hydaelyn is willing to as well?
To quote futrama: 'I have no strong feeling one why or the other.' -
03-26-2016, 12:04 PMMajikNET
So, at which point are we going to put the following threads together...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mummy via her new BFF
The world works in mysterious ways!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhinged reader of weird things in the back of the library
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03-26-2016, 12:58 PMCyrilLuciferBut that's what we already did in FFXI!Quote:
Originally Posted by MajikNET
WotG round 2? -
03-26-2016, 01:11 PMCyrusArjuna
Honestly I wish they'd allow us to use the echo to see historical events at some point. Like 1st and 2nd Umbral Era stuff. We kinda did something similar back in 1.0...as long as there isn't any convoluted time travel stuff D:
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03-26-2016, 01:11 PMMajikNET
No idea, didn't play XI ^_^ It feels like there should be a dynamic there though, unless they're just playing with juxtaposition for the fun of it (which wouldn't surprise me...)
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03-26-2016, 03:52 PMZohar_Lahar
Perhaps the Shadow of Mhach story will let us see what happened right before the Great Flood (sixth Rejoining). Hmmm, I wonder if that certain primal from the other raid could rewind time enough to undo the flood....
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04-01-2016, 08:12 AMFenralApropos of nothing, but since this is a joke thread anyway, congrats on getting Thordan VII as your April Fools' avatar. I seem to be the one person on the forums okay with getting Emmanelain, and a quick search for "Haurchefant" revealed that Ayuhra did, in fact, get Haurchefant as his avatar, so I'm suddenly convinced we were profiled, each and every one of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar
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04-01-2016, 08:28 AMKalleraI still don't know how I got Charibert...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
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04-01-2016, 09:20 AMEnkidohThat's not really possible though due to simply how the Echo works - it's not actual time travel but you're simply viewing someone else's memories of said event. So, unless there's a ten-thousand+ year old still stomping around who has not been affected by memory loss, I doubt that will ever happen (after all, we've become chummy with none other than Midgardsormr who, by all logic, would probably be nudging close to millions of years old if his comments about being the proginator of the dragons on Hydaelyn in the planet's early history is to be believed, and not once has the Echo shown us a scene from his memory - so either his nature is so far beyond our understanding even the Echo doesn't work on it, or else his extreme age has meant... sacrificing a good deal of his memory as time has passed.)Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrusArjuna
Either way, I think the lack of information about earlier time periods of Hydaelyn is deliberate, as it's after all a major driving force of the story. -
04-01-2016, 03:29 PMRhodkr
Or maybe old middy has some tricks up his sleeve and has a way to keep the echo from his thoughts? On that notes, have we ever seen any memories from the Ascians? They're pretty old if they are to be believed, (if they're the ones causing all those cataclysms!)
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go run Ishgard, ahem yes. -
04-01-2016, 07:32 PMCyrilLucifer
While it may not be exactly Echo-vision, apparently the Chrysalis is formed from Ascian memories, according to the ARR artbook. Which can mean all sorts of things, really, and I wouldn't probe too deeply on that yet. It has some really interesting implications, though - for example, those scenes in the Chrysalis, like in 2.3 with Elidibus surrounded by the Overlords (who didn't use Overlord models, but let's just ignore that little oversight), may not have really occured there, but were instead more like the scene at the end of 2.5, where Elidibus speaks with Lahabrea and then Urianger in what initially appears to be the same room in rapid succession. It's pretty clear Urianger and Lahabrea weren't that close with Lahabrea speaking of such sensitive topics to Elidibus and so it didn't happen as depicted on screen. SE was using a more art-y form of storytelling.
I was in a debate a few months ago on whether or not some Echo users can "push" another Echo user out and prevent them from seeing their memories - I personally don't believe they can, given Lahabrea couldn't push you away and prevent you from sharing Thancred's soulspace, so I believe the potential to see their memories in the future is there.
Er, as to your question, no we haven't seen an Ascian's memories, but just like how short and rigid the WoD's scene was that cut off before we actually learned anything, that we haven't seem them is more SE's method of storytelling rather than an actual inability to. SE doesn't want to reveal that particular information to us yet.
As for Middy being able to resist the Echo - I'm going with no. He couldn't remove/limit our Echo in the first place, he was restricted to our Blessing. I don't think he has any power over the Echo.