What are summoners going to do now

I mean it was basically if you didn't get that burst kill, you most likely weren't killing them.

With reduced Dots aswell it will be very hard.

They are saying that the amount of total damage makes them nerf it.
Which is ridiculous, just because you bane 5 ppl, doesn't mean any of them will die.

It's like they don't even play pvp, and then make changes.
The changes may help blm. But summoner is going to be almost useless on its own.

At least that what I think.

Now melee is going to be absolute king of pvp, with no competition.
Once I get my mount I quit.

Summoners will be fine.

The problem was that the burst was too high and was insta-cast. Also dots lasted too long and you could spread them to everyone, doing high damage on multiple targets without any penalization.

Now SMN should do just like every other DPS: focus against one enemy.

We will adapt and worst case scenario, we will play another class.

Yeah, I might just go tank instead of a caster class.
And it wasn't like summoners could constantly be bursting, there were a lot of conditions to meet.
All your CD's have to be up. and if you want to kill your RS has to be up aswell.
As soon as your aetherstacks were gone, you do almost no dmg.
Melee have "insta" cast bursts aswell btw


They are acting like melee dps can't burst as high.
And they can do it more often, and they have more defence and health.

I guarantee next they will all be complaining about monks.

You forget the part where melee have to melee, and like many other classes burst is tied to cool downs as well. SMNs have high mobility and high burst from distance without damage drop off, that alone is extremely powerful. I think even after the current changes they're still going to put down a lot of hurt, except it'll be a bit more manageable to deal with.

Also One Ilm Punch wants to say hello to your Aetherflow stacks.

If you did it right that SMN burst was non-existant.

They will be balanced.
Its not like Trisaster ticks for 1k dmg and Death Flare for 3k wasnt Op.
SMN almost can 1 shot me as a BRD just takes them a few Secs.

Oh no, summoners will actually have to try now! :^)

The problem with SMN was that they could get decent results doing almost nothing. I will freely admit that I am a terrible SMN and I could still slaughter people by throwing out instants, barely even paying attention to my pet or using most of my abilities.

Defenders say that the DoTs don't do anything, but they add pressure, enable the use of other abilities, punish people by demanding priority for Purify, shut down healers trying to remove them with non-instant cleanse abilities and protect more critical debuffs your team has used. Miasma is very powerful in its own right. There are plenty of counters (and as a WHM I'm not as scared of SMNs as most) but the problem is really obvious in FL too when it's not unusual for me to have five SMNs in my party in any given match. In The Feast they are obviously outperforming other jobs to the point where it's noticeable from the statistics. I've played with fantastic people on a variety of jobs and the amount of skill that the SMNs require to blow the others away in performance is noticeably lower.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Also One Ilm Punch wants to say hello to your Aetherflow stacks.

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In fairness I do think that they should look at the Aetherflow issue as it seems unnecessarily cruel. There's no guarantee you'll have a MNK on your team but if you do it's disproportionately stacked against two jobs, and in addition I don't think forcing a particular counter is how SMN should have been balanced. I'd support them making Aetherflow immune to OIP.

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Isn't the PLD skill Glory Blade? The thing that makes OIP especially strong is that it can be spammed so you're much more likely to catch Aetherflow instead of some useless padding. Though I don't mind either way whether the special PVP abilities can remove it, I just think that SMN and SCH could be thrown a bone since Aetherflow already defies most other restrictions of self-buffs and it powers most of their mechanics. By all means keep OIP useful for regular buff effects, however.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

In fairness I do think that they should look at the Aetherflow issue as it seems unnecessarily cruel. There's no guarantee you'll have a MNK on your team but if you do it's disproportionately stacked against two jobs, and in addition I don't think forcing a particular counter is how SMN should have been balanced. I'd support them making Aetherflow immune to OIP.

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That's one of the ways SCH/SMN were originally nerfed. Originally Aetherflow was immune to buff removers... but then they added it into the pool of things that can be removed. So I'm thinking it's doubtful it will get changed back. =/

SMNs have a huge list of stacked nerfs in PvP now and I think it's safe to say they've overdone it with this patch. Their burst needed toning down for sure but why on earth were their dots and sole source of crowd control (their only means of defence given that they have no defensive cooldowns) nerfed as well?

SMNs need to have a lot of the previous nerfs reversed in light of these changes. Miasma needs to apply heavy again, just don't transfer the effect with bane. Aetherflow should not be strippable.

Given that they are the outright squishiest job in the game they need some way to defend themselves if they're not allowed to be the glass cannon they were designed as.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

SMNs have a huge list of stacked nerfs in PvP now and I think it's safe to say they've overdone it with this patch. Their burst needed toning down for sure but why on earth were their dots and sole source of crowd control (their only means of defence given that they have no defensive cooldowns) nerfed as well?

SMNs need to have a lot of the previous nerfs reversed in light of these changes. Miasma needs to apply heavy again, just don't transfer the effect with bane. Aetherflow should not be strippable.

Given that they are the outright squishiest job in the game they need some way to defend themselves if they're not allowed to be the glass cannon they were designed as.

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Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Isn't the PLD skill Glory Blade?.

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Blaming autocorrect on that one. Hate the phone

I do agree aether shouldn't be removed, or allow things like greased lightning to be as well

I think there's a good argument for restoring Aetherflow to its previous state now because those original changes were made back when 50 was the cap. Aetherflow became even more important to SMNs in 3.x and without it their options are severely limited. In addition, it's inherently unfair to have one job with a hard counter for another in a mode where you can't see your opponents' party configuration until yours is locked in.

Not a big fan of Miasma also inflicting heavy though since it's already quite punishing to cleanse the messes SMNs make and Miasma is extremely easily applied as part of a normal damage cycle, but another option to complement the binds would probably be fair. I'd prefer it was handled via a Lethargy-style PVP-specific ability, personally, or perhaps pet abilities could come into play a bit more here to reward controlling the pet properly (using Garuda's knockback as inspiration) and making the pet more of a threat in general. Or give Miasma heavy, but remove Miasma from Tri-Disaster (PVP only) to make applying it a conscious choice rather than something which just naturally happens when the one player misjudged and suddenly everyone in the party is debuffed, taking damage and slowed. The suggestion to make the heavy not spread via Bane would also work for that, I guess. It's just a bit punitive to make their heavy something that's naturally protected by multiple debuffs right from the moment it's applied, while other jobs will find their crowd control is easily stripped off if the healer is left free to cast.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Just aetherflow. It was a special case. A change made likely to reign in scholar's healing ability compared to whm back when frontlines (secure) was the most active pvp mode, at least that's what I think.

Either way, the circumstances have certainly changed at 60 and with feast.

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Originally Posted by kingatlas

They are acting like melee dps can't burst as high.
And they can do it more often, and they have more defence and health.

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Yeah, but melee have to actually melee. SMN can kind of just chill at a distance and nuke the bejeezus out of everyone.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Don't forget AST's Retrogradation.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Pretty sure Wrath stacks can be removed, which is more akin to Aetherflow than any of those.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

Oh no, summoners will actually have to try now! :^)

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I know right? Scary thought!

DRGs now will reign supreme, 55% critical, feint, weapon throw and gapclosers. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

DRGs now will reign supreme, 55% critical, feint, weapon throw and gapclosers. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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http://i.rubese.net/twisoq/img/96eb3...d3a3fe5deb.jpg

This is now a loldrg thread.

I'll just quote myself from the PvP forum...

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Originally Posted by Evangela

SMN can do high damages in the match results and people use that as a proof to say the job is OP but SMN dots hardly kill anyone except for the one who got focused by the SMN and eat the follow up Fester-Painflare-Deathflare. All you have to do is Purify and if it's on CD then you just need to pop your self heal such as Second Wind or Recouperate. If you can survive Deathflare the SMN can't do anything about it because all of their reliable attacks are on cooldown and most SMN will stop following you because they'll get killed eventually as people said, SMN has little to no tool to save their life.

For other jobs, if their burst couldn't kill the target, they can use other attacks to finish them off but for SMN if Deathflare didn't kill the target, it's done. I think this nerf is way too overboard. Not only for SMN's offensive skills but they even nerfed the only defensive tool that SMN can rely on, Tri-bind. Now SMN is heading back to their Frontline Secure state: useless.

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I agree with OP. If a SMN fails to kill the target with Deathflare, they're finished. Nothing they can do about it because all of their attacks would be on cooldown. What are they supposed to do? spam Ruin II and hope someone will die from it?

It's ok to adjust it to make it balanced in general but what they have done is literally made this job a complete trash in PvP.

I'm not sure how many of these people actually played SMN in The Feast, but it's not like we could just spam Deathflare non stop. The particular burst they've tried to stop was very specific and could only be accessed two or three times max in most matches, less when your Aetherflow ruined.

Yet their response is to destroy pretty much every SMN ability. Best thing about The Feast so far was it was fun, now I feel useless (win or lose) so the fun element has been sucked out of it a bit for me.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

This is now a loldrg thread.

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I love lolDrg

Is there a reward for players who do high total damage at the end of the matches or something? Does it matter if SMN can do 200k damages on the match results? The numbers are high because of DoTs but it's not like SMN actually killed everybody on the map with Bane. It doesn't make sense to nerf SMN dots just because of some people saw the match results and get angry about them.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

http://i.rubese.net/twisoq/img/96eb3...d3a3fe5deb.jpg

This is now a loldrg thread.

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I lost it at this post. Literally. In Public.

What are summoners going to do now?

cry on the forums , blm will pass u some tissues left now that they dont need it anymore :P

I loved my summoner but I can always play other jobs in the Feast.

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

I loved my summoner but I can always play other jobs in the Feast.

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Not necessarily an option for everyone unfortunately. I'm not a great healer under pressure so no point going as SCH, and I don't have any other 60's.

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Tri-BindThe duration has been reduced from 12 to 6 seconds.

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That's really hilarious, SE. lol. Really.

I can't really judge how SMN is in PVP yet until I do several rounds. I'm out of town and haven't been able to have stable internet enough to play reliably, but on the paper, the nerfs looks pretty excessive.

The Tri-bind is just a slap to the face, when BLM can still do Bind AND Sleep, BOTH of which AoE, and both of which last a hell a lot longer than tri-bind now > >. Which is stupid.

The reduced bio/miasma/bio II duration? Meh. I never expected those to last long due to purify and pacing of the game, so this doesn't really bother me.

Deathflare AND painflare at the same time is pretty excessive. (Biased I know). Nerfing either would've been fine enough.

Summoners are best described as glass cannon. They can deliver a lot of pain, yes, but they're very easy to take down. Just about ANY Melee LB can one shot them.

Any monks can pretty much kill the summoner's flow (literally), and killing the aetherflow pretty much pacifies a summoner for about a minute (which is the recast of aetherflow, assuming it's not up). Fester is only effective IF all three debuffs are up, something that's easily countered with purify (and good healers that do pay attention and react fast if you have em). Point is, there's plenty of ways to stop and disable a summoner in their tracks, and it's so much easier to do so in The Feast now since it isn't as chaotic as Seal Rock.

I guess if anything, at least that'll slow the Heavensward summoner bandwagon >_>. I've been playing SMN since the start of 2.0.