Craft grinding now impossible without self mutilation?

Before 1.19, I was still getting 250-300 on Undyed Velveteen at 37. Now I get between 45-55 and the synth is more expensive.

So I decided to move it up a step, sell all of my cotton thread and buy flax to begin grinding out Linen Yarn. 2 Flax -> 1 Linen yarn. WHAT?! Really? Ok..fine..whatever...*looks at exp earned* 200....

I'm level 37...doing a level 41 synth and only getting 200 exp? Something isn't right here...ontop of that, you only get 1 of the item so mass production of the cloth that comes from the thread will be almost impossible now.

Anyone else having this issue? Anyone else feel that SE needs to rethink the latest changes to crafting?

I am all sad panda that they nerfed the synth and make many recipes now yield 1 item instead of 12. I mean...come on, 4 should be fine, I wouldn't complain. This is so hard for my wallet. I don't even use normal synthesis to grind EXP anymore.

The levels of items and materials have been largely revamped. Velveteen is mid 20s, Linen is mid 30s. At 37 you should be looking at wool and felt (I'm not that high so I don't have the exact level values, do some experimentation). Also, instead of trying to grind, make finished items, they're much simpler to create and easier to control exactly what level of experience/synth difficulty you're after. You can also dye them for a double dose of exp and to create a very desirable item to sell at market to recoup your funds. In other words, its far more entertaining to PLAY a crafter, rather than grinding. Try it out!

Personally, I'm a big fan of the new crafting revisions. It all makes so much more sense now than it did before. If you want to grind, you can grind by making materials that you can actually sell to other players or use yourself. No more mindlessly grinding worthless "parts" just for skill points that you'd have to end up selling to some NPC because nobody wanted it.

Now the level of synth you are doing has a much greater correspondence to the level of gathering you need for the materials for that synth and the class level which can make use of the finished product.

I hated crafting before the changes, but now I actually enjoy it quite a bit. I'm taking armorer to 50 and everything that I've grinded on can be easily turned into something useful without having to go hunt down so many extraneous materials. And the experience is great; at around lvl 35 armorer I was getting ~700+ on cobalt rings I think, close to 1k per synth with a manual.

What the previous two comments said. Doing synths more appropriate to my level yields me 400-700 exp easy. Impossible without self mutilation? Still that might be true. Haha

They lowered the level of several raw material recipes like steel and as you found out, Velveteen and linen.

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Originally Posted by Carpe

I hated crafting before the changes, but now I actually enjoy it quite a bit. I'm taking armorer to 50 and everything that I've grinded on can be easily turned into something useful without having to go hunt down so many extraneous materials. And the experience is great; at around lvl 35 armorer I was getting ~700+ on cobalt rings I think, close to 1k per synth with a manual.

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There is no way the server demand can keep up with the supply of "useful" items. When I grind, I can make hundreds of Iron Greaves in one sitting. There are very few items the whole server uses that much of in a week. The exp/synth just isn't high enough to support crafting in a purely player to player economy. A single crafter simply produces so much more than the server demands.

Crafters are surely by far the largest contributors to money supply inflation simply because in order to level up in a reasonable time you have to make items that can be vendored for a minimal loss.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Before 1.19, I was still getting 250-300 on Undyed Velveteen at 37. Now I get between 45-55 and the synth is more expensive.

So I decided to move it up a step, sell all of my cotton thread and buy flax to begin grinding out Linen Yarn. 2 Flax -> 1 Linen yarn. WHAT?! Really? Ok..fine..whatever...*looks at exp earned* 200....

I'm level 37...doing a level 41 synth and only getting 200 exp? Something isn't right here...ontop of that, you only get 1 of the item so mass production of the cloth that comes from the thread will be almost impossible now.

Anyone else having this issue? Anyone else feel that SE needs to rethink the latest changes to crafting?

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I have over 1000 flax now.. Seriously i cant give the crap away.
When they made this nerf they made it drop like flies. I get 5-7 per harvest often resulting in 3-4 stacks per level. Do a few hours farming and the net result is sell to NPC...

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Originally Posted by Frein

There is no way the server demand can keep up with the supply of "useful" items. When I grind, I can make hundreds of Iron Greaves in one sitting. There are very few items the whole server uses that much of in a week. The exp/synth just isn't high enough to support crafting in a purely player to player economy. A single crafter simply produces so much more than the server demands.

Crafters are surely by far the largest contributors to money supply inflation simply because in order to level up in a reasonable time you have to make items that can be vendored for a minimal loss.

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As above, I love the new system, but I agree, one of the sole unaddressed problems with it is volume. In the last few levels of a craft, the sheer amount of items you have to craft (even at an optimal 500-600 exp per item) creates a glut of items in the market. The multi-materia destruction helps this a lot at those levels, so its probably ok there, but at mid-level you still get huge amounts of, say, brass needles, which are laregely not needed. Not sure what the solution to this would be, an exp bonus on finished items would be nice, or simply a normalization of total items needed per level above, say, 20. In other words, I agree, but don't know how to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Frein

There is no way the server demand can keep up with the supply of "useful" items. When I grind, I can make hundreds of Iron Greaves in one sitting. There are very few items the whole server uses that much of in a week. The exp/synth just isn't high enough to support crafting in a purely player to player economy. A single crafter simply produces so much more than the server demands.

Crafters are surely by far the largest contributors to money supply inflation simply because in order to level up in a reasonable time you have to make items that can be vendored for a minimal loss.

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Iron Greaves are part of the old crafting recipes. After a while you won't be able to make these anymore. The new recipe designs don't have these kind of synths that are "just for skill points". The new "grind" synths are the basic mats that you will use over and over in your recipes and that are needed by other crafts for their recipes. Using Armorer as an example, to get to Armorer 40+ you literally do not need to make anything other than ingots, rivets, rings, and plates. These 4 basic materials are used in basically every finished product that an armorer can make in the new recipes. They're also needed by other crafters as well. That's what creates the demand for them and makes them "useful" synths. With leatherworking you skill up on making hides to leathers, carpentry logs to lumber, clothcraft making threads and cloths.

Iron Greaves are a perfect example of what was messed up with the OLD system. You took your materials and kept sything them into more and more specialized materials or "parts" until you ultimately had something like a weapon part, armor part, button, strap, etc. These parts could only go into a small number of finished products which was what made them worthless to try and sell in the wards in large numbers.

Also, inflation isn't caused by crafters selling things at a "loss". Game economies are fundamentally different from real economies because in a game resources are unlimited. Coblyns don't go extinct and nodes keep respawning. So in order to prevent inflation the game needs smart and effective money sinks. And inflation is only really a problem when there's a lack of supply to meet the server demands. That's why I think SE has been increasing drop rates. Having lot's of money is pretty meaningless when people with less money basically have the same buying power that you have and items are easily replenished. So then the only really advantage for the rich is being to be able to buy the best armor at the highest prices. But with the best items becoming increasingly untradeable, your money means nothing when you have to earn your gear instead of buying it.

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Originally Posted by Derkatron

As above, I love the new system, but I agree, one of the sole unaddressed problems with it is volume. In the last few levels of a craft, the sheer amount of items you have to craft (even at an optimal 500-600 exp per item) creates a glut of items in the market. The multi-materia destruction helps this a lot at those levels, so its probably ok there, but at mid-level you still get huge amounts of, say, brass needles, which are laregely not needed. Not sure what the solution to this would be, an exp bonus on finished items would be nice, or simply a normalization of total items needed per level above, say, 20. In other words, I agree, but don't know how to fix it.

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Well for now I think the best route for the high 40s is doing as many local leves as possible. The experience bonus on these is really good, but I can see how at the last few levels your "basic" synths might dry out in terms of xp/synth. Maybe giving high level crafters more options to gain experience through guild tasks or company supply quests could help, but for the most part those last few levels should take a while and once you do hit those levels you're basically able to craft any recipe anyway.

So far I've found plenty of new recipes that hit the 400-500xp mark per synth. Even in the 40's (GSM), I'm not having any trouble. In fact it seems easier. Electrum Ring mats are so easy to get now its like a free syth if you have miner. I could make em all day long. Then by the time you're done with that you've mined so many jewels you can just switch to jeweled rings and you're set to 47....

People are just too lazy to work with the new recipes....

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Originally Posted by Carpe

Iron Greaves are part of the old crafting recipes. After a while you won't be able to make these anymore. The new recipe designs don't have these kind of synths that are "just for skill points". The new "grind" synths are the basic mats that you will use over and over in your recipes and that are needed by other crafts for their recipes. Using Armorer as an example, to get to Armorer 40+ you literally do not need to make anything other than ingots, rivets, rings, and plates. These 4 basic materials are used in basically every finished product that an armorer can make in the new recipes. They're also needed by other crafters as well. That's what creates the demand for them and makes them "useful" synths. With leatherworking you skill up on making hides to leathers, carpentry logs to lumber, clothcraft making threads and cloths.

Iron Greaves are a perfect example of what was messed up with the OLD system. You took your materials and kept sything them into more and more specialized materials or "parts" until you ultimately had something like a weapon part, armor part, button, strap, etc. These parts could only go into a small number of finished products which was what made them worthless to try and sell in the wards in large numbers.

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I know Iron Greaves are an old recipe. The reason people use them is because ingots require a massive capital investment due to the raw material prices and people simply don't make enough gear to drain the system of them fast enough (the large investment also makes it infeasible to vendor the ingots).

Besides, the basic recipes don't give much exp past L44+ or so and finished gear is what you'll have to make if you want decent exp from the new recipes. On my server the wards are pretty much flooded with cobalt gear and moving them is slow despite the constantly falling prices. Clearly we have yet to hit market equilibrium in materials and gear, so the situation may eventually improve unless materia conversion rate creates a bottleneck to gear demand.

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Originally Posted by Frein

I know Iron Greaves are an old recipe. The reason people use them is because ingots require a massive capital investment due to the raw material prices and people simply don't make enough gear to drain the system of them fast enough (the large investment also makes it infeasible to vendor the ingots).

Besides, the basic recipes don't give much exp past L44+ or so and finished gear is what you'll have to make if you want decent exp from the new recipes. On my server the wards are pretty much flooded with cobalt gear and moving them is slow despite the constantly falling prices. Clearly we have yet to hit market equilibrium in materials and gear, so the situation may eventually improve unless materia conversion rate creates a bottleneck to gear demand.

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I keep hoping they lower the spiritbind time and also remove the need to be a crafter to attach materia to fix this situation. It sound like a kick in the balls to crafters, but it might be the biggest boon the economy will ever see if they did it. materia everywhere, and DoW/Ms buying all our crap to either attach materia to or turn into more materia. DoW/Ms would also be breaking and buying more gear trying to attach multiple materia, making even more demand for gear. And really, that's whats missing the most in the current upper-tier economy: demand.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Electrum Ring mats are so easy to get now its like a free syth if you have miner.

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Last I checked, Electrum Ring is not craft-able at all.
They didn't add any recipes to make Electrum Ingots into the Ring, so you're stuck with the old nugget recipes, and you can no longer make electrum nuggets because that recipe was changed to make electrum ingots.

I tried 3 gold, 1 silver ores to no success. And sand doesn't exist anymore.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Last I checked, Electrum Ring is not craft-able at all.
They didn't add any recipes to make Electrum Ingots into the Ring, so you're stuck with the old nugget recipes, and you can no longer make electrum nuggets because that recipe was changed to make electrum ingots.

I tried 3 gold, 1 silver ores to no success. And sand doesn't exist anymore.

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you're thinking of the wrong thing. he's not talking about jewelry.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...assId=&rankId=

the recipe levewls was changed, cotton is 10 recipes lower, so is linen. Try wollen and felt instead of those. Btw, 7 levels higher recipes = 500 exp, 3 levels higher recipe = 300 exp, same level = 200 exp.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

I keep hoping they lower the spiritbind time and also remove the need to be a crafter to attach materia to fix this situation. It sound like a kick in the balls to crafters, but it might be the biggest boon the economy will ever see if they did it. materia everywhere, and DoW/Ms buying all our crap to either attach materia to or turn into more materia. DoW/Ms would also be breaking and buying more gear trying to attach multiple materia, making even more demand for gear. And really, that's whats missing the most in the current upper-tier economy: demand.

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The spiritbind/materia system is definitely going to be the key to solving the upper-tier economy demand issue. Already, I think it's a big improvement over the situation we had before where everyone only had to buy their gear once and thus the market became saturated once that initial demand was met. I have to agree that lowering the spiritbind time will give players more incentive to risk attaching multiple materias to their gears and should be implemented.

One problem I have with materia is I feel like there is little incentive to use it at the lower levels and so the demand is so small at the lower tiers relative to the supply that they're all practically worthless. Why would I convert a tabard that I can maybe sell for 15-20k in the wards when the tier I materia that I get from it will only be worth 3k or less? You get the same problem where finished products are being reintroduced into the wards instead of being filtered out through materia conversion.

Maybe one solution could be to change the Materia system from instead of being a simple one materia to one slot system have materia applied to an item fill up a gauge. The size of the gauge could depend on the level/rarity of the item. So if I have a gauge that allows me to fill a maximum of +20 str, I could do this through a combination of lower or higher tier materia. Trying to apply materia to surpass this gauge would come with the risk of destroying the item.

A funny (it's only funny to me because I wasn't the one who got this problem LOL) thing that happened with my LS friend last night was that he came back after a long break and he still had old Weaver LQ and Alchemist LQ. When he tried to finish the LQ, the existing LQ material allowed him to make only 5 Cotton Yarns from 5 attempts, resulting in the total success of 5/36 items from requirement. Same thing happened with something he made for ALC LQ. LOL.

The biggest problem with the materia system right now aside from bond rate is item prices. Crafters want big profits from single sales, so no one is willing to risk losing their stuff when it costs 300-500k per slot to gear yourself before you ever meld a single materia.

As to the original point, I think leveling crafts will be much more tolerable if SE follows through on the concept of an instant option for crafting that just makes the item with no chance of HQ. To me, the biggest pain is the time one synth takes when little to know player skill is involved.

Instant synths for leveling, minigame for HQing is the way to go on SE's part.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

you're thinking of the wrong thing. he's not talking about jewelry.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...assId=&rankId=

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Actually he is - Talk of the jewels and the recipe level of 41-45... Electrum Ring is 44 GSM. Electrum Rings is 38 ARM.

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Btw, 7 levels higher recipes = 500 exp, 3 levels higher recipe = 300 exp, same level = 200 exp.

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That's incorrect. Please look at this post. Thanks.
http://forums.yg.com/showthread.php?t=1388
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...level-question
Same level = 250 exp, with +50 per level above.
So +3 = 400 exp, +7 = 600 exp.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Actually he is - Talk of the jewels and the recipe level of 41-45... Electrum Ring is 44 GSM. Electrum Rings is 38 ARM.



That's incorrect. Please look at this post. Thanks.
http://forums.yg.com/showthread.php?t=1388
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...level-question
Same level = 250 exp, with +50 per level above.
So +3 = 400 exp, +7 = 600 exp.

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I think you're confused. Electrum Rings (the material) is made by GSM (41-50) that's what he is talking about. Why would he be talking about working with new recipes and then make a reference to an old one? He's saying they are easy to make because all you have to do is go out and farm the electrum ores.

3 ores -> 1 ingot -> 1 ring
8 ores -> 3 ingots -> 3 rings

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ssId=D&rankId=

Wasn't there hints that crafters will soon start leveling up mostly via quest or some such thing?

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Wasn't there hints that crafters will soon start leveling up mostly via quest or some such thing?

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Would love to hear something like this, but I don't recall reading that anywhere. Do you have a source on that?

First page of this

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Instant synths for leveling, minigame for HQing is the way to go on SE's part.

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I am fine with an instant synth option, like an improved version of Hasty Hand that reflects the chance of failure if you were actually mashing standard synthesis for the synth. But I'd also like to see the exp reward vary more with Quality as another option for people.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Wasn't there hints that crafters will soon start leveling up mostly via quest or some such thing?

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Your source is talking about "Jobs to progress by clearing quests rather than gaining EXP." Doesn't refer to crafting that I noticed.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Last I checked, Electrum Ring is not craft-able at all.
They didn't add any recipes to make Electrum Ingots into the Ring, so you're stuck with the old nugget recipes, and you can no longer make electrum nuggets because that recipe was changed to make electrum ingots.

I tried 3 gold, 1 silver ores to no success. And sand doesn't exist anymore.

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Whut? 4 Electrum Ore = 12 Nugget. I've been making tons of Electrum and Tier 2 Gem Ring ever since 1.19 because they are the fastest to spiritbond >_>

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Whut? 4 Electrum Ore = 12 Nugget. I've been making tons of Electrum and Tier 2 Gem Ring ever since 1.19 because they are the fastest to spiritbond >_>

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ROFL@myself. Thanks! The tiny section in red slipped my notice.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Whut? 4 Electrum Ore = 12 Nugget. I've been making tons of Electrum and Tier 2 Gem Ring ever since 1.19 because they are the fastest to spiritbond >_>

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If you don't mind me asking, do they produce Rank 4 materia? And do they produce good ones?

I unfortunately chose CRP for my craft, which doesn't give me very many options for spiritbond items (main hand... yay) but am sort of also leveling GSM and it would be nice to be able to craft something I could turn into materia IV's.

Any gear (dated or not) will have a chance of producing T4 materia.
Rings appear to give random single-stat materias. My best so far is a +17 MND.

Add: Also Magic Potency and Parry

Rings typically produce Stat Materia, Tier IV max is + 18. Though there are certain rarer Materia that it can make.