Paladin Materia

Are you guys melding crit or det for your left side slots?

Strength.

(yes, I know, crazy parry advocate slotting strength is an oddity to itself)

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Strength.

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Im very worried about why you are melding STR into your left side, you realise that left side is your armor side right? (im sure you eather read it wrong or got your left and right mixed up)

Acc if needed, then crit>sks>det, assuming IV.
If V, crit>det>sks

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Originally Posted by Violette

Acc if needed, then crit>sks>det, assuming IV.
If V, crit>det>sks

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You don't happen to have numbers on how much crit you need, do you?

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Originally Posted by Aedair_The_Righteous

You don't happen to have numbers on how much crit you need, do you?

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Crit?

When you hit around 36% critical rate (w/o SwO), stop getting crit and start getting det/sks.

Acc? At least 700. Not much will be known till Elysium/Angered/The Sneaky JP's claim A8S.

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Originally Posted by BattleGrace

Im very worried about why you are melding STR into your left side, you realise that left side is your armor side right? (im sure you eather read it wrong or got your left and right mixed up)

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Well right, but are the armor pieces already capped on Strength? I'll argue about the mitigation offered by Parry vs. Crit/Det/SS 'til I'm blue in the face, but Strength out-classes them all pretty severely. Point for point, it's the fastest way to boost your Attack Power and build enmity, and if you can get more Strength, it's worth taking. If not, though, Parry's getting my vote (though I'll probably have a Crit set and a Parry set, just so I can have a farm set and a turtle set).

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Well right, but are the armor pieces already capped on Strength?

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Can't meld main stats anymore.
(Welcome to 3.2)

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Well right, but are the armor pieces already capped on Strength? I'll argue about the mitigation offered by Parry vs. Crit/Det/SS 'til I'm blue in the face, but Strength out-classes them all pretty severely. Point for point, it's the fastest way to boost your Attack Power and build enmity, and if you can get more Strength, it's worth taking. If not, though, Parry's getting my vote (though I'll probably have a Crit set and a Parry set, just so I can have a farm set and a turtle set).

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You are correct that STR offers more in the way of AP and yes it is the fastest way to improve said AP but it can not be melded onto rightside (armor). you may however be able to meld STR to only NQ greens since they do not reach the STR cap but that may not work unless it is only overmelding that can not have main stat melded, im not 100% sure when it comes to NQ greens (220). other then all that Crit is still the best but a healthy dose of Det can go a long way, but knowing you, you will continue to advocate parry.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Can't meld main stats anymore.
(Welcome to 3.2)

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You can't meld main stats on anything but accessories and even then to a max of 15 since they have 1 meld slot (strickly talking about blues, i mean you could theroeticly if it is only overmelding that stops main stat but you would get nothing out of it if you could/can meld into garanteed slots since the item is already capped.

I believe that's what i said. Main stat on fending acc is vit but you can meld other primaries onto it. Same for mind acc with no piety iirc.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Crit?

When you hit around 36% critical rate (w/o SwO), stop getting crit and start getting det/sks.

Acc? At least 700. Not much will be known till Elysium/Angered/The Sneaky JP's claim A8S.

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How much Critical do you need in order to reach 36%, tho? And why precisely 36%? I'd like numbers for this if you don't mind possibly lengthy explanations <:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

worth placing this here since stat caps were mentioned. use it, love it

Considering that IVs drop like water now thanks to beast dailies, I was planning on putting whatever the piece does not have.

As in, it has crit, but not det? Putting det. And vice versa.

Let's say it has neither? Whichever I have in hand from the beast dailies.

Not going to put ACC because I don't do Savage, therefore I never have ACC issues.

Of course, putting STR on right side (even though it's not the subject of the thread).

SKS might have been tempting, but I believe DET and CRIT will give better returns.

I was thinking that the best path would be to meld DET, then CRT, and stay away from SS because I don't want to go OOTP. Failing everything else, I was thinking that ACC was a good bet.

Now, I don't know the gear tree at lvl 60 yet, so you all can tell me whether there is ever an opportunity for this but, I was thinking that if there were any situations where you have a primary stat opening but can't throw VIT or STR on, then I might add some Mind or Piety, Mind to help boost my heals (such as they are) and PIety to increase MP longevity - since we can't increase our TP longevity.


I wish there was a stat we could use to boost our base TP like Mages can boost their MP.

Not like you have as much of a choice as it may seem. If a piece already has determination, it is capped and you cannot meld more determination on it, likewise for crit. So you will meld crit on pieces that has determination but no crit and vice versa determination on pieces with crit but no determination. The only scenario you get to choose if it has neither in which case i would be going for determination.

And strength onto fending accessories.

All of this assuming you have enough accuracy ofcourse.

I would never meld skill speed as a pld cause yeah being out of TP faster is counter intuitive.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Not like you have as much of a choice as it may seem. If a piece already has determination, it is capped and you cannot meld more determination on it, likewise for crit. So you will meld crit on pieces that has determination but no crit and vice versa determination on pieces with crit but no determination. The only scenario you get to choose if it has neither in which case i would be going for determination.

And strength onto fending accessories.

All of this assuming you have enough accuracy ofcourse.

I would never meld skill speed as a pld cause yeah being out of TP faster is counter intuitive.

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For raiders ACC would probably top the list intil you hit the accuracy cap, but for players like me who seldom raid, the accuracy requirement is somewhat lower, so I was giving priority to anything that stengthens our attack.

BTW has anyone determined how block strength was imacted in all of this (if at all)?

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Originally Posted by Thela

If a piece already has determination, it is capped and you cannot meld more determination on it, likewise for crit.

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Pieces are not all capped, for example Hellfire Mask of Fending is CRIT/DET and you can still meld more DET on it as its not capped unlike CRIT. Always double check if you can meld more or not, its usually lowest stat that you can meld more.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but Det isn't as effective when stacked on Pld since it doesn't effect auto attacks, thus not really benefitting SwO. I was just planning on dropping Crit/Parry in most of my slots, SkS is a good way to burn out of TP especially if using Fracture, and we already have lots of Acc on gear. I'm not saying Det is a bad stat to have, as it also affects your base damage and healing, it's just less effective for Pld's dps stance than others.

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Originally Posted by RaineAmorie

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but Det isn't as effective when stacked on Pld since it doesn't effect auto attacks, thus not really benefitting SwO.

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This is true and it hit PLD most and i dont understand why they did it while buffing CRIT, its still worth as there are no good alternatives for secondaries. Im still kinda salty that they fuckedup SS as i was hyping myself for upcoming Haste stat... instead it stayed same/became worse. Tbh in 4.0 SE needs to revamp most if not all secondaries, this "avoid parry like plague" or "ewww SS eats mah TP" because it makes gearing annoying and it gets boring to stack same stats for years.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Not like you have as much of a choice as it may seem. If a piece already has determination, it is capped and you cannot meld more determination on it, likewise for crit. So you will meld crit on pieces that has determination but no crit and vice versa determination on pieces with crit but no determination.

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For all level 50+ gear, excluding pink and NQ crafted:

• If it has a main stat (VIT/STR/DEX/MND/INT, but not PIE), it's at the cap, this also applies to pink gear
• There are 2 secondary stats, one is at cap, the other is at around 70% of cap (90 and 110 HQ crafted are an exception, they only have one secondary, and it's at cap)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

For all level 50+ gear, excluding pink and NQ crafted:

• If it has a main stat (VIT/STR/DEX/MND/INT, but not PIE), it's at the cap, this also applies to pink gear
• There are 2 secondary stats, one is at cap, the other is at around 70% of cap (90 and 110 HQ crafted are an exception, they only have one secondary, and it's at cap)

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Well fair enough, still it's an illusion to think you have major choices when in fact most of the time you do not.

On another while somewhat similar topic, i was in a group today with a SS stacking PLD doing more dps than a war, ofcourse the downside was that he flat lined his TP in under 3 minutes relying on TP refresh to keep up. I suppose is an alternative also if you do not mind relying on NIN/BRD but personally i don't want to gear my PLD to rely that heavily on others.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Well fair enough, still it's an illusion to think you have major choices when in fact most of the time you do not.

On another while somewhat similar topic, i was in a group today with a SS stacking PLD doing more dps than a war, ofcourse the downside was that he flat lined his TP in under 3 minutes relying on TP refresh to keep up. I suppose is an alternative also if you do not mind relying on NIN/BRD but personally i don't want to gear my PLD to rely that heavily on others.

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You have DPS numbers on that? That sounds crazy. I'm curious how much Skill Speed you need to actually push your DPS so high without overclipping Goring Blade.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

You have DPS numbers on that? That sounds crazy. I'm curious how much Skill Speed you need to actually push your DPS so high without overclipping Goring Blade.

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Would there be a value, since SS increase DoT numbers, that Facture would become a DPS increase, regardless of TP cost ?
If so, you could spend that GCD to not reapply GB too early.

I'm seeing parry mentioned and just pls no.

PLD is the one tank job where Parry is essentially worthless. Let's not do that. You have a shield, you have block synergy, focus on blocking, don't bump Parry for pointless additional stuff. You definitely want crit > det > sks (though the 6 det on the IV makes it pretty bad compared to the 9 sks you can get from the sks ones, as was mentioned). You would think that TP is an issue, but none of the fights in Savage are 100% uptime on the boss. They're all short periods broken up by downtime where TP regenerates, so don't worry about TP things when considering how to meld.

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Originally Posted by Thela

On another while somewhat similar topic, i was in a group today with a SS stacking PLD doing more dps than a war.

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Then that's just a bad WAR. Skillspeed isn't some secret amazing stat just for PLD.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Then that's just a bad WAR. Skillspeed isn't some secret amazing stat just for PLD.

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I've been seeing a lot of these bad warriors recently, 400 dps on sephirot bad. With paladin and drk fighting over after the patch, seems more tanks are trying to go warrior and don't know how to play it.

I like to throw money away. On that note, how much mp could I gain by melding piety for my pld? Also, does piety count as a "main stat" or is that available to overmeld

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Originally Posted by keyburz

I like to throw money away. On that note, how much mp could I gain by melding piety for my pld? Also, does piety count as a "main stat" or is that available to overmeld

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Piety is a main stat, so no overmelding. If you put Piety V into all 18 slots, including weapon/shield, you would get about 650 MP as a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Would there be a value, since SS increase DoT numbers, that Facture would become a DPS increase, regardless of TP cost ?
If so, you could spend that GCD to not reapply GB too early.

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Sitting at 650 Skill Speed, I was able to get in one Fracture every GB RA RA rotation. I need a little bit more SKSPD, because Goring Blade wore off 0.02 or 0.01 seconds before I could reapply it, so around 30-40 more SKSPD might be needed. Anyways, I found that using Fracture in-between the combos did provide a slight DPS increase sometimes. Some others I'd get either the same amount or DPS or slightly less...

However, the TP loss was staggering, I was completely dry by the 3 minute mark. I'm guessing any more skill speed than that will make it impossible toeven reach the three minute mark if you're using Fracture. The DPs gain was also very... inconsistent, so I'm thinking unless we can get to around 690 Skill Speed it's not gonna be worth stacking it. Even if you do manage 700ish SKSPD, I think the DPS gain from Fracture will be too inconsequential to even matter when you weigh it against the TP consumption.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

I think the DPS gain from Fracture will be too inconsequential to even matter when you weigh it against the TP consumption.

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Thanks for the numbers :)
TP consumption is, on itself, also inconsistent. Recent content does not require 100% uptime, so it would give you room to let your TP refresh when you can't hit the target.
Also, I suppose we're not the only job who could run out of TP, so it's not unreasonable to suppose there will be some songs or turret to restore party's TP.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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SE played a pretty convincing illusion with this. I was almost convinced that the Tp reductions in 3.2 would be enough, because I was having no problem managing my Tp in the new content ... and then I did my lvl 50 roulette and flat lined my Tp twice in a single dungeon run.

As for Fracture, I don't know if this is true or not because I haven't tested it myself, but I was told by another Pld, once, that Fracture can still be a Dps gain in the OT position if your skill speed is high enough (and he did specify the OT position only). I'm not sure what kind of numbers this guy was running, though. I kinda thought that he was talking out of his butt, but Fernosaur's post is making me take a second look at it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Now, I don't know the gear tree at lvl 60 yet, so you all can tell me whether there is ever an opportunity for this but, I was thinking that if there were any situations where you have a primary stat opening but can't throw VIT or STR on, then I might add some Mind or Piety, Mind to help boost my heals (such as they are) and PIety to increase MP longevity - since we can't increase our TP longevity.

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You'll want to stick to the standard secondaries (ACC/Crit/Det/SKS). Mind and Piety are worthless for a PLD since tank self heals are based off of attack power (STR and VIT) and the MP you'd gain from even full Piety melds would be barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

You also shouldn't be seeing too many issues with MP unless you're doing nothing but spamming Flash or using Clemency often since SE gave PLDs a reason to use their Riot Blade combo (Goring Blade) outside of just replenishing MP.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'm not sure what kind of numbers this guy was running, though. I kinda thought that he was talking out of his butt, but Fernosaur's post is making me take a second look at it.

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I intend to try and stack as much SKSPD as I can in the future and see if I can make it to 700 just so I can test all of this out. It might take a while, though, and a lot of materia IVs :'D, but I'll get back to this thread as soon as I have something slightly more conclusive. To be completely honest, I don't think it's gonna be worth it to give up on Crit and Det in favor of the slight DPS gain Fracture might give, but you never know! It might be that just having enough Skillspeed to get one Fracture, two GBs and two RAs into a FoF window might be good enough?

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

I don't think it's gonna be worth it to give up on Crit and Det in favor of the slight DPS gain Fracture might give, but you never know! It might be that just having enough Skillspeed to get one Fracture, two GBs and two RAs into a FoF window might be good enough?

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Don't forget that SkS also basically increase your DPS.
And, if Ariyala's weight are to be trusted, SkS is actually better than Determination when it comes to melding rank IV materias (Since rank IV offers 9 SkS over 6 Deter)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Don't forget that SkS also basically increase your DPS.
And, if Ariyala's weight are to be trusted, SkS is actually better than Determination when it comes to melding rank IV materias (Since rank IV offers 9 SkS over 6 Deter)

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Skillspeed sucks pretty bad IMO, mainly because for PLD, you work with 9 GCDs limitation (GB>RA/RoH>RA/RoH). I had 685 SS before switching 1 part, and I had the consistent problem with clipping Goring Blade early by 1 GCD, and again, Fracture isn't worth for the most part to use (Potency changes on RA and GB pretty much outscales Fracture), except maybe during the FoF CD uptime or when you need to leave boss to do mechanic.

So the bet is still on Crit/Det for the most part.