Please buff the mitigating effect of parry! The way parry worked before was fine, but even that could've used a little help! I would be fine with it offering a % physical damage reduced effect passively, and half that for magic damage.
Please se!
...I just wanted to be a special snowflake that asks for buffs to parry instead of removing it. XP
Please buff parry SE!
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03-02-2016, 03:18 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHPlease buff parry SE!
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03-02-2016, 03:23 AMCephyon
They just need to rid of parry and block and just add bonus armor. Shields give the most bonus armor to make up for losing block. All fending pieces have bonus armor that ups physical defense and magic defense..then we will actually notice it instead of RNG parry.
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03-02-2016, 03:27 AMRagologyHaving parry and block gives us things to proc with though, kind of like evasion allowing use of Haymaker. Makes combat seem a bit more active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephyon
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03-02-2016, 03:31 AMCephyonThey could still keep parry and block, but make it set rate, that increases as you level or get better gear and make bonus armor just the stat on our gear to make us more "tanky". It's just my idea I have had since parry became so scrutinized by everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragology
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03-02-2016, 04:26 AMJpec07And kill the tanking model in FFXIV just like they did in WoW? No thank you. Parry isn't meant to be a 100% completely reliable, save-my-ass-from-a-tankbuster stat. It's meant to smooth out incoming AA and small physical damage, and make it so you aren't hit as hard--and arguably, if you stack enough of it, it actually does exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephyon
The problem is that right now the rewards from Parry stacking aren't noticeable - they're there, you just don't really notice them. Even on a boss fight, where it may wind up mitigating 400k damage, it's not something that you see very readily. If I switch between my Void Ark 200 set with close to 0 parry on gear and my Esoteric 200 set with ~350 parry on gear (don't quote me), the difference isn't immediately noticeable. But whether I notice it or not, I will take less damage overall, and it may take longer for my HP to get to that range where the healers need to start healing me back up - it may give them one or possibly even two extra GCDs of DPS before they have to switch over. And over the course of a boss fight or primal encounter, those extra DPS GCDs from healers can and do add up.
There are a few pieces of info I think we need before we can ratify or condemn parry. People right now say "it scales terribly" by quoting a 35 point-to-percent rate, which translates to even smaller mitigation rewards: to mitigate an extra 1% of physical damage, you'd need 175 points of parry - and at ~210 iLvl, you're only getting ~350 parry from gear, which with this conversion rate translates to just 2% additional physical damage mitigation at 10% additional parry. But the thing is that this figure of 35 points-to-percent was established in 2.2, during the Animus questline, and we haven't seen much testing to verify that the conversion still stands in 3.0 and beyond (though evidence seems to suggest they might have buffed it substantially). I also suspect that Parry may scale like Accuracy, where 210 gear might provide 40-50% against A1S, but might only provide 25% against A8S (or something like that), but don't have any data to back this up (if only parsers were legal). Before we have any serious discussion around what needs to happen, we need to determine clearly exactly how it scales in 3.2, and whether it is a constant rate against all level 60 enemies.
However, there are some changes that can be made independent of such analysis that would make Parry more viable/desirable for smoothing incoming AA/physical damage:- Advanced Parry: Add a trait somewhere such that, when tanks are in their tank stances, a parried attack mitigates 50% of incoming damage (rather than the flat 20% that other DoW/DoM jobs get). This could also allow tank-stance tanks to parry critical hits.
- Offense Bias: Add a trait somewhere such that, when a tank activates their OT/DPS stance, Parry and Critical Strike are swapped (or that Parry is added to Crit), giving Parry a DPS component.
- Parry Block: Give Paladins the ability to both parry AND block an attack, or give Paladins a trait that allows parry to affect block rate/percent.
- Animation/Sound Effect: Part of the problem is that right now, we don't get much/any indication from the UI when we've parried an attack - it's a footnote on the scrolling damage text that says "(-20% parry)." When you get a critical strike, by contrast, the number is bigger and bolder, and the sound effect of the attack itself is louder. If we could see it happening more frequently with more parry, or if it were somehow more noticeable, it might help the perception of the stat, and the way it feels in the game.
Ultimately, parry as a stat is helpful as it is right now; it just doesn't feel like it, and so the stat doesn't feel very worthwhile. Even if having 350 parry on your gear will eat 2% of the damage in the fight, it doesn't feel as noticeable as if those 350 points were added to SS, Crit, or Det--to the point where people are suggesting that you'll kill the boss > 2% faster if you stacked those stats instead, and so they are more valuable (when really, that's a bit of a bold claim). -
03-02-2016, 04:33 AMFyce
Even if they buff Parry to a point where investing into it actually gives a nice chance of proc, I don't see why Tanks would go for it anyway instead of using Crit/Det.
I mean, Parry and Block are here to mitigate fluff damage, so the benefits you'd get from parrying a bit more would probably be lost in healing anyway. You'd gain more by pushing DPS, skipping phases and whatnot than parrying a few more auto-attacks.
So, unless they start making some fights where Tanks get really high fluff damage, Parry would still be a bad choice anyway.
Currently, that stat cannot be balanced given the tanking meta we have. It's really that simple (and sad).
Edit: To be a bit more clear about that: having a "tanking stat" in FFXIV where offense is so important doesn't make sense. It's kind of the same problem we had with VIT. So, un short terms, if they want Tanks to use Parry, they have to make it an "offensive stat", such as allowing the tank to reflect a bit of damage from the attack each time they parry, for example. -
03-02-2016, 04:41 AMNektulos-Tuor
Turn Parry into Thorns. :)
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03-02-2016, 04:45 AMReynhartParry should be like Crit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpec07
Not a reliable stat, but a "wow, sweet" effect when it procs.
Here, the ratio is not very much, and the effect is meh. -
03-02-2016, 04:45 AMHPDelronThey should just get rid of all the stats and have one called "Tank" that automatically improves your mitigation, health and so on. DPS & Healers could have the same things for their respective stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephyon
Actually at that point, we can just collapse that into single stat called "Power" that automatically improves things depending on your role at the time. No need for different classes/roles to have different gear!
Actually at that point, we can just number gear tiers with no need for stats at all! You could just have a single number that rates how good your character is at stuff
Actually at that point, we can just get rid of the gear and have your number go up as you clear content. -
03-02-2016, 05:16 AMLaunched
Remove parry.
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03-02-2016, 05:34 AMCephyonGlad my post inspired you to register on forums and post! I simply say get rid of it because all people do is complain about it. but you can take it this way tooQuote:
Originally Posted by HPDelron
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03-02-2016, 05:38 AMDuelleThe only works when you design a class around that. Blocks themselves aren't that bad currently because of this very reason (PLD mitigation is tuned around them and we have abilities that can manipulate or react to blocks).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragology
You'd need either notable mitigation from parries or the ability to negate an attack with parries. The former would probably benefit WAR and DRK a little too much, the latter would be OPd in the current game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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03-02-2016, 06:04 AMJpec07I'd argue that 20% is pretty notable - that's the mitigation provided by Rampart, which can make a pretty big difference, when push comes to shove. Ultimately, though, I agree; a chance at 20% mitigation doesn't translate very well to the effectiveness of a stat. If they made it so Parry cut damage by 33-50% instead, though, then it might start feeling a bit better (especially if they gave it a chance of affecting critical strikes, as well). You'd probably have to tweak Dark Dance, Wrath, and Raw Intuition some to accommodate, but this would make Parry a more desirable effect, because you'd be able to feel it more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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03-02-2016, 06:36 AMHPDelronIf people complain about parry it could mean lots of things. One of those things is that it is superfluous. Another of those things it that it might be tuned incorrect and another is that overall content & encounter designer may be overly skewed towards DPS at expensive to other mechanical elements to the game. The only reason parry should be removed is if the reason complaints are coming in is because it really the first of those issues. In general the conversations about it seem to strongly indicate it's the latter two issues. However only SE has the data to really confirm that one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephyon
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03-02-2016, 07:42 AMReynhartNegating is a bit high, but a really good mitigation would be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
And since PLD has Parry and Block, maybe we'll finally see how it's "focused on mitigation".
I know reality has no place in this game, as I said myself on another topic, but when it comes to protection, a shield is far more important than even a body armor. -
03-02-2016, 07:44 AMAlistaire
Parry doesn't need a buff. If it got buffed, the way the game works it'd still be useless. You'd need to redesign content in the game around it to make it worthwhile.
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03-02-2016, 08:32 AMSyzygian
Wouldn't it be nice if we could literally gear ourselves defensively, using secondaries, during progression, and then switch over to det/crit/sks builds for farming? Oh wait...
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03-02-2016, 11:33 AMVioletteYou lose almost 250 accuracy by using parry acc > accuracy accessories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syzygian
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03-02-2016, 11:59 AMAaliyahrose
fyi...Awareness negates critical damage...which also allows for more Parry >.>;
*hides in a corner* -
03-02-2016, 01:34 PMSyzygianYeah if you literally go for a 100% "perfect Parry BiS", which no one would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violette
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03-02-2016, 01:38 PMVioletteWhat's better defensively, increase self healing or a random chance to block for 20% damage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Syzygian
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03-02-2016, 02:39 PMSyzygianI never made an argument that directly put those two things in conflict with each other so I'm not gonna dance with your little straw man there. The contribution 50 Det will make to your self heals is as negligible as what 50 Parry would bring to the table. The DPS gain of det (or crit or ss), that's a point that can stand to reason. Anyway, my original point was that, during progression, especially now that we can meld any secondary to any piece of gear, you may as well just take those parry pieces and enjoy occasionally taking less damage physically, and boost your damage by melding to it until you get something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violette
These tanks giving themselves stomach ulcers over parry being on their gear have my sympathy but not particularly my empathy. -
03-06-2016, 02:54 AMMirch
No Parry No Party