3.2 Dungeons Difficulty

Hello,
I have just wanted to ask you people what you think about the difficulty of 3.2 dungeons?

I think they were really beautiful, but the difficulty seemed just too easy to me even while taking casual players in account. I joined both dungeons without any knowledge and ran them trough without single death or wipe while just dodging stuff, if there was a mechanic, it was completely straightforward and required no figuring out or trial and error method.

I understand why Antitower is faceroll but why Amdapor ("Hard") does not have atleast a little bit of challenge?

The dungeons actually seem more difficult - in comparison to the previous faceroll content at least.

I can imagine that doing these at minimum item level with random casuals could provide a lot of challenge.

I don't really think any dungeons have been higher than potato level tbh when it comes to 4 man content. These ones aren't really any different.

I think that dungeons included in the main tomestones roulette never been difficult for this reason. People will need to clear them every evening to get their weekly 450 . It is the slow but safe way to gear up.

I find the new dungeons to be fun, but very easy. And while I don't mind the gating now, it's going to get old after a few weeks of grinding for Lore when you're limited to how many mobs you can even pull.

I dont understand why dungeons are so long and easy.
It would be a very nice change to have to do faster and harder dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

I dont understand why dungeons are so long and easy.
It would be a very nice change to have to do faster and harder dungeons.

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As others have said, dungeons are basically the source of tomestones and people are going to grind for it. Making the dungeons harder for its own sake is going to cause an upset among the playerbase since people don't want harder things for daily grinds and they can just go to Savage raids and EX trials for a dose of challenges.

The Lost City aesthetics were decent, but Antitower seems a bit plain, especially once inside the tower, differentiated only by the caved (ceiling) floor for much of it. Both seemed face difficulty. Antitower's long hallway pull that ended with the Centaur statues seemed about the only place with the a faint sense of danger, and only because that was one of the few places we could finally really mass-pull. They're not bad, and arguably better than the Arbortorium or Neverreap, but I just couldn't find myself excited at any point in them past the first view downhill from Lost City. I really would have appreciated some difficulty and newer sense of mechanics for a change.

Better to be difficult and interesting, and adjust the rewards for that added time, than reduce the amount of time necessary for each run (while awarding less), given that a third of the time is going to be spent running anyways.

They seem super easy..but I don't mind. Sure, I would love 4 man difficult dungeons, or shoot..even 8 man like we had in 1.23, but I am not holding my breath XD

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Soon people will speed run it to add artificial challenge and then we'll get people who don't understand how to speed run the dungeons, wiping the party in the process...

The dungeons are easy, HOWEVER.....

Idk what they did but the bosses are huge HP sponges. Either that or I keep getting matched with DPS that have downs or something

They made the enemies hit for nothing despite the increase of Item Level this update. If you think they're face-roll now, boy are they going to be further of a joke when we're all i230+.

Easiest two dungeons I've ever had to heal in the expert roulette. I'm not sure what they were thinking with the difficulty balancing.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Soon people will speed run it to add artificial challenge and then we'll get people who don't understand how to speed run the dungeons, wiping the party in the process...

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There's hardly anything to speed-run. Both dungeons are filled with stop-gaps where enemies flat out won't spawn until the previous (single) pull is cleared. And even with the one modest pull you can make in both of the dungeons, the stress on the tank/healer isn't close to what was needed in the 3.0/3.1 experts.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Idk what they did but the bosses are huge HP sponges. Either that or I keep getting matched with DPS that have downs or something

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It's the latter. You can already do the current dungeons in 15 minutes with a competent group.

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

need to clear them every evening.

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Not really. 3 days of Expert + Lvl 60 roulette and one run through Void Arc and youre done.

These two dungeons seemed particularly easy compared to the expert dungeons we've had since before Heavensward. Usually the content is much more difficult to DPS in as a healer (for example) in the first weeks when everyone is lower geared. However, I was DPSing in these dungeons more easily in these 2 dungeons than I was in the last 2 at the end of the patch.

The 3.2 dungeons are easier for 2 main reasons (from what I see).

1) Gear, dungeon requirement i180 gear of folks doing the dungeon i210(At least for my DF groups), compare that to 3.1 release.
2) No more big pulls. There seem to only be a couple places to get more than one group so much less dmg going out with only a group at time.

oh and a 3rd. Maybe i've been lucky, but it seems the first week, tanks I ran with were actually using cooldowns etc. as folks were getting a feel for things.

I've been able to dps as a healer much more easily as well.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

As others have said, dungeons are basically the source of tomestones and people are going to grind for it. Making the dungeons harder for its own sake is going to cause an upset among the playerbase since people don't want harder things for daily grinds and they can just go to Savage raids and EX trials for a dose of challenges.

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Well then they should make harder content give a lot more tombstones. I cant believe something easy and long gives u 75 lores but something very hard gives u 10...
At least we should get extreme roulette that gives like 100 lores at least...

Harder should always give better rewards
And u are gonna tell me do savage, ofc i do but also i have to cap and lose 30 minutes a day doing something that feels like being at work...

These dungeons are very easy and any mistakes are easily recoverable. I've healed and tanked both dungeons, I think I dps'd one of them, and they're easy on all the roles I play.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Well then they should make harder content give a lot more tombstones. I cant believe something easy and long gives u 75 lores but something very hard gives u 10...
At least we should get extreme roulette that gives like 100 lores at least...

Harder should always give better rewards
And u are gonna tell me do savage, ofc i do but also i have to cap and lose 30 minutes a day doing something that feels like being at work...

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Which runs into another problem; time efficiency. If something is too difficult, people are going to go to something easier. It's simply faster and easier to grind tomestones in dungeons than to beat your head on a wall for the same reward in a larger volume. Harder trials and raids already give better gear compared to the mainstream versions.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Which runs into another problem; time efficiency. If something is too difficult, people are going to go to something easier. It's simply faster and easier to grind tomestones in dungeons than to beat your head on a wall for the same reward in a larger volume. Harder trials and raids already give better gear compared to the mainstream versions.

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You do get a better reward for harder content. Gear. The best gear available is usually only available from the harder content.

I wouldn't mind seeing a roulette with increased difficulty + minimum IL, Just to spice some of these dungeons up.


Just my two cents.

Extreme dungeons that give 65 lore base + Extreme dungeon roulette for 100 lore tomes combined please. I just want to cap while having some fun, doing expert has turned into a chore.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Hello,
I have just wanted to ask you people what you think about the difficulty of 3.2 dungeons?

I think they were really beautiful, but the difficulty seemed just too easy to me even while taking casual players in account. I joined both dungeons without any knowledge and ran them trough without single death or wipe while just dodging stuff, if there was a mechanic, it was completely straightforward and required no figuring out or trial and error method.

I understand why Antitower is faceroll but why Amdapor ("Hard") does not have atleast a little bit of challenge?

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The even remotely difficult dungeons were all back during 2.X. Everything now is "follow the well showed path, fight enemies, follow path, more enemies, cool looking boss beat down, follow path, more enemies etc". Said it before, these dungeons need more depth, and not lore wise saying your going into another part of the dungeon by friggen blocking the last one from another dungeon and have us go the other way, but actually give us choices.

So far these dungeons are just Beautiful, Lovely sounding, pieces of crap. It looks good, but it doesn't feel too good, and the more you dig into it the more crappier it feels. Don't worry though, friends would make it more fun. -_- it just seems like every dungeon since SE has gave up giving players the feeling of true exploration (oh...haukke manor nm T-T <-- in which they could've built on this idea up to 3.0 and we'd have an awesome buffet of dungeons to explore). Dont have time yada yada, then play on your own time, what do you expect on an mmo rpg (RPG) your time is friggen forfeit as soon as you subscribed. \rant

Edit: Here's a similar topic called Dungeons are a little linear and the post i made in response: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng#post3443847

End Game content design, gear progression, and secondary stats need a revamp. I understand SE is leaning this game more towards a casual base but there needs to be a greater challenge and content with more substance or they'll even bleed out the casual subscribers b/c they'll end up getting bored.

Funny thing is: last boss of The Vault (leveling dungeon) is much harder than bosses in "Expert" Roulette.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Hello,
I have just wanted to ask you people what you think about the difficulty of 3.2 dungeons?

I think they were really beautiful, but the difficulty seemed just too easy to me even while taking casual players in account. I joined both dungeons without any knowledge and ran them trough without single death or wipe while just dodging stuff, if there was a mechanic, it was completely straightforward and required no figuring out or trial and error method.

I understand why Antitower is faceroll but why Amdapor ("Hard") does not have atleast a little bit of challenge?

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After two years and a half of the rinse-and-repeat kind of content, are you truly surprised that they're piss easy? Now that in itself is a surprise.

Sorta related to the thread
Remember in Final Fantasy games you'd come across a boss in a dungeon that's pretty hard but with enough persistence you'll eventually beat it, Bosses like Materia Keeper or Demon Wall from IV? How come we can't have that in these games? Is it because people are running these things daily and don't want to be stuck fighting a hard boss? Not to sure if this is an MMO exclusive thing or not just think it'll be kinda cool to have that in this game.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Sorta related to the thread
Remember in Final Fantasy games you'd come across a boss in a dungeon that's pretty hard but with enough persistence you'll eventually beat it, Bosses like Materia Keeper or Demon Wall from IV? How come we can't have that in these games? Is it because people are running these things daily and don't want to be stuck fighting a hard boss? Not to sure if this is an MMO exclusive thing or not just think it'll be kinda cool to have that in this game.

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That's called an extreme primal/savage raid. The current ones are Sephirot extreme and Midas savage.

@Yasuhiro & OoglieBooglie

To be honest, back at ilvl 50, the old Demon Wall was exactly that for many parties. Wiped and broke up many an expert roulette at that time, when AK was the only choice in said roulette. Challenge of any noticeable significance has simply been split off from daily content these days, apparently, for reasons much like you guessed, to primal/savage content, as Ooglie said.

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Originally Posted by OoglieBooglie

That's called an extreme primal/savage raid. The current ones are Sephirot extreme and Midas savage.

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Was asking for difficulty in dungeons, lel.
Nice one though.

These dungeons are insanely easy. Speaking from a tank's perspective, the monsters (even on maxed-out pulls) and bosses hit for very little damage, but have inflated HP pools to make the dungeon actually take 15~20 minutes. There are some sort of(being generous) interesting mechanics on bosses, but they all do so little damage that you can basically ignore them. The problem is that, thanks to Diadem, Gordias Normal, Void Ark, free gobtwines, and a huge time gap between 3.1 and 3.2, anyone who has been playing even a little bit far outgears these dungeons. This has always been the case, but it shows especially here because nothing does any damage to the tank. Healers can sit in cleric stance for entire boss fights.

It sucks because the dev team spends all these resources making these unique monster models and environmental models and then makes these sleepwalk dungeons. The previous dungeons were much more fun, even though Pharos "Hard" was way easier than Pharos normal.

If they want bad players and newbies to still be able to get their weekly tomestones they should

Make leveling and level 50 roulette give the same Lore/whatever tomestones as current expert
Make high level roulette give the same lore/whatever as current expert
Make expert roulette actually have good difficulty and decent gear rewards, maybe some unique roulette rewards as well (random drop mounts and stuff)
Nerf old experts on the patch cycle

I don't think the previous expert dungeons were that much fun; the mechanics for each boss fight was quite simple and trash mobs will always be trash no matter their strength or HP. I had more fun with the current expert dungeons now since the bosses use more interesting mechanics and use more than one mechanic for the final fight.

I've found the current Dungeons in 3.2 to be rather fun. I mean The Antitower can have it's moments of down time with some of the trash but I really enjoyed revisiting The Lost City of Amdapor. Though I was thrown for a loop when I saw spells like Cure dealing damage XD.

Better than Nevercast.

I hate that dongeons and raids don't scale you down more, it's not been that long since the patch but in amdapor I had a tank that pulled three groups instead of the standard two and it worked out fine...
If I'm tanking I can pretty much stay in Sword Oath the whole time and the healer in Cleric Stance for the bosses. The only trash mob I ever found interesting to fight where the ones in The Aery where they dont have a red circle and you have to look at the animation to know when to dodge. I like stuff like that.
The problem with difficuld things is just that people don't always know the mechanics even after running the thing a few times (Y'know Kuribu and her regen circle that needs more than the melee people).

"Hard" dungeons in DF were

Haukke HM (minilvl last boss pure DPS check)
Sasti HM funnily could wipe all bosses easily
Amdapor HM (Demon Wall part but after a wipe didnt fully reset iirc)

Most dungeons are designed to be farmable without wipes though it is sad but on other hand for challenge we have raids and primals :)

I prefer anyway dungeons with story... like Tamtam HM <3

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

Most dungeons are designed to be farmable without wipes though it is sad but on other hand for challenge we have raids and primals :)

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Indeed. It is sad that they decided to remove the healer role from the current dungeons though.

Why not one face roll easy, but long and drawn out(for those that hate hard).

And the other dungeon challenging, shorter (length could be equal to other if you wipe a couple times.

??

The Anti-Tower is pretty easy. I can solo the last boss on my Warrior, at least.

I learned this recently when our DPSers were just that bad. First set of dolls was me and the healer, and neither of us got broken out at all, and the boss used its tankbuster on one of the DPSers (because I wasn't a valid target at the start, being a doll). So he got rezzed. Next set had both the DPSers dolled. I broke them out almost immediately with a single berserking fell cleave on each. Next set (because I can only do so much DPS myself) was a DPS and Me. The DPS got broken out because the healer helped kill it, but it took too long for me to get broken out, and the boss tankbustered the healer and killed them. Then the DPS killed themselves on the Relfect damage the boss put up, and I was the only one alive at about 30%.

I then solo'd the rest of the fight, and since she wasn't able to tankbuster me twice per cycle because I'm not a valid target when I'm a doll, I was able to heal/mitigate myself enough through the other one, did it in about 4 more cycles.

So I could do it from 100%, but it would take a looooooong time.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Indeed. It is sad that they decided to remove the healer role from the current dungeons though.

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We've been pretty dps-heavy throughout 3.0, early level 60 dungeons no exception. At least in the few long pulls still available we still at least need to do more than HoT / periodic Adlo.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Indeed. It is sad that they decided to remove the healer role from the current dungeons though.

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Yup, it is indeed sad. Here is my second experiment after trying LCoA with WHM i76. I removed as much as I could without raising suspicion.

http://i.imgur.com/5aryACM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZiumHtP.jpg

No danger whatsoever even with my 8k HP. I only had to heal a bit more and using cooldowns gave me room to dps.