Raid 24 and incredible bad choice for the additional loot.

since the 3.2 the additional loot in the raid 24, understand minion and orchestrion roll and into the 4th chest, means you must rand against 23 people for get it. it will be ok, if and i say if.... it was not possible to sell this item to the AH.

i feel this loot must be inclued into the last chest per group, not for the whole raid. and i fail to understand why the roll that are personal loot in every other content are there a chest reward for 24 player rand. especially if you take in account that some song need to be obtain 2 times in CT 1-2-3.

I've heard that people roll on ponies even when they already have them. It would probably be the same here. At least keeping them sellable means you can buy them off the market board eventually, and hopefully for cheap.

you really think that people will sell it for cheap? i doubt it greatly. so far that was the worst decision they did make in the whole 3.x series.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

I've heard that people roll on ponies even when they already have them. It would probably be the same here. At least keeping them sellable means you can buy them off the market board eventually, and hopefully for cheap.

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You actually can't do that. If you already have a pony and try to roll, it'll mention something about "Unable to roll on already acquired untradeable Mount" or something.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

I've heard that people roll on ponies even when they already have them. It would probably be the same here. At least keeping them sellable means you can buy them off the market board eventually, and hopefully for cheap.

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This was the case initially. Sometime in 2.5 I think they made it so you can't roll on minions and mounts that you already have and that said item is untradable. Before that, I've seen a couple of ponies and nightmare gone to people who already had it

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

since the 3.2 the additional loot in the raid 24, understand minion and orchestrion roll and into the 4th chest, means you must rand against 23 people for get it. it will be ok, if and i say if.... it was not possible to sell this item to the AH.

i feel this loot must be inclued into the last chest per group, not for the whole raid. and i fail to understand why the roll that are personal loot in every other content are there a chest reward for 24 player rand. especially if you take in account that some song need to be obtain 2 times in CT 1-2-3.

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Not going to comment on the minion stuff, but rather the Orchestrion Roll from the tower series.

1. You DO NOT need to roll against 23 players, only 7 players from your party.
2. I've saw the final boss chest dropping up to two Orchestrion Roll from the same chest, but the drop rate is not 100% so most of the time there's no Orchestrion Roll in it.
3. You need NOT TWO, BUT FREAKING THREE Orchestrion Roll from each of the towers (CT/ST/WoD).

Couple with hours long queue, it's really (pardon my language) fk'ed up situation. Queuing for hours and having nothing to show. At least the other 8 mans can be farm rather quickly if you manage to form a decent team, or in worst case are still accessible via duty finder. Towers? Good luck forming an alliance of 24 players to get in there. And before anyone mentioned about helping the new players, I did join a carry party for a new player for CT last night. Queue run for close to two hours before it disband. And most of the time when I managed to get into either towers in the past two days doesn't have new player bonus message either. So go figure.

Yeah, I don't see myself getting 9 rolls out of Tower, especially since people can always roll again even if they already have it. They should have made it a 100% drop as the minions and even then it would be still difficult enough to get.

They need to chop up the old towers into individual bosses and put them in trial roulette. As much as it would suck to not be able to run the towers in their original format through random duty finder, you pretty much already have that situation. They can make the optional 4th chest randomly spawn on all 4 bosses of each tower, so you don't have people just spamming the last boss.

I would love to finish one or two of my Syrcus Tower glamour sets, but waiting for an hour on a specific class (so I can roll need), just for the group to fall apart before we reach my boss, only to reach the boss on my third attempt and not see the loot drop... Crystal tower is just a waste of time as it is now, adding new items to last boss won't help.

I wish they'd stop sticking to formula with content... Alexander drops the item you need for Lore weapons? Big surprise there...

Know what I'd have done? Rather than having Midan Gears exchanged for High-capacity Allagan Tomestones, I'd have added a new reward to the Crystal Tower weekly quest, which functions like a mix between Treasure Maps and Guildhests. You'd use it, go to the indicated area, use the item up to enter an instance. In which you'd face off against Lv60 content, which you'd probably want a group for, and that would be the method for obtaining High-capacity Allagan Tomestones.

Done. Want a Lore weapon? You have to do something entirely new which requires you to go through Crystal Tower first, which would hopefully mean it reverts back to the level of activity it saw during 2.5, World of Darkness had more back then than it ever will again, but that weekly quest was the only thing really keeping the other queues active, and it worked...

Instead, they wasted the weekly drop on Alexander: Midas, which people would be doing for i220 anyway...

It is absolutely astounding that they added these Orchestrion Rolls to the Tower series after acknowledging that they don't get run or are on over two hour queue waits.

You got the memo, SE, so why the hell did you think this was a good idea!? It makes sense that the music comes from there, but it didn't mean to do it (for damned good reason, too), do you REALLY think people will suddenly make it active because you added some music scrolls... guess what, not surprisingly, it did NOT, the queue is still exceptionally long like it was before and there's literally nobody wanting to deal with this nonsense queue time.

And to make it even worse, despite the fact that you willingly added items that are dead on arrival, you made it so you require an equally absurd amount of them and are needed to fight several others for them IF, yes, IF they appear? Absurd! Gut these three raids into a boss rush for each one, tweak them so they can be done with 8 people or do something, because you haven't fixed anything with the Tower problem... you've only ADDED to it.

Sorry if I sound annoyed, but that's because I am, this has to be the most mind-baffling thing they have done in a long time, it's like in the last month or so they had completely forgotten the thing they acknowledged and thought it'd be funny to add fuel to an already blazing inferno.

There needs to be more incentive for veteran players to run CT/ST/WoD. Maybe a weekly reward of 60 Tomes of Lore? Whatever is decided upon, if we could be afforded the luxury of being given better incentive to run the tower raids, I think it would go a long way towards helping new players to be able to complete the tower raids for MSQ progression as well as help new players and veteran players to be able to acquire the gear and rewards that they would like to acquire from those raids.

My proposal would be that the weekly reward for completing a tower run would be:

• 20 Tomes of Lore
• 40 Tomes of Esoterics
• 100 Allied Seals
• 100 Tomes of Poetics
• 100 Centurio Seals

I think this would be a fair reward that might provide incentive for people to run the tower raids at least once a week and help to improve queue times to revive this old content. What does anyone else think?

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

They need to chop up the old towers into individual bosses and put them in trial 24 man roulette.

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i fixed it a bit

My only problem with a roulette, which I also considered as being a great way to revive the tower raids, would be that you may end up getting the same tower multiple times. Not sure if a roulette would work so well because of that. :\

Maybe edit the Gift of Archimagus repeatable quest to make it give us one unidentifiable item for the relic quest of our choice, and change it to be done once a day, instead of once a week. Boom, lots of people running 24 man every day.

But, that still won't solve the Orchestrion rolls problem. If it was a guaranteed drop AND it only dropped for your party, instead of the whole alliance, it would still take a while to get (just look at normal Alexander with people needing all the items) all 3 and people would still roll for the chance of making money. Hells, even if it wasn't a 100% drop chance, it would be much more fair if you didn't have to roll with the whole alliance.

Speaking of, I did Void Ark the other day, and I noticed that the Echidna Card is now an alliance item, free to roll. Thankfully I already got mine ages ago, but, good luck for those that still need it lmao.

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Originally Posted by Koujiro

But, that still won't solve the Orchestrion rolls problem. If it was a guaranteed drop AND it only dropped for your party, instead of the whole alliance, it would still take a while to get (just look at normal Alexander with people needing all the items) all 3 and people would still roll for the chance of making money. Hells, even if it wasn't a 100% drop chance, it would be much more fair if you didn't have to roll with the whole alliance.

Speaking of, I did Void Ark the other day, and I noticed that the Echidna Card is now an alliance item, free to roll. Thankfully I already got mine ages ago, but, good luck for those that still need it lmao.

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You actually only roll against your party for the Orchestrion Roll and not against the whole alliance. Echidna Card is party roll as well if I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Felis

i fixed it a bit

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24-man raids take far longer than any other roulette, and have a much higher chance of breaking apart mid-run due to an enormous variety of factors. What type of daily bonus could they possibly put in that would make that time requirement appealing? They wouldn't make it more rewarding than expert dungeons in terms of tomes, because that would completely invalidate the purpose of adding new dungeons each patch.

No one runs 24 mans because they are long, unpredictable, and the time investment (not just for the queue) balances poorly with the odds of getting the minion or glamour you want off a boss. None of these factors would change with the addition of a 24-man roulette, so they would remain as dead as they are.

Chopping them up and putting them into trial roulette, although disappointing, is the only way to make sure that a person who wants to fight a certain boss will be able to do so repeatedly with a reasonable waiting time. As they are now, they are essentially 4 trial roulettes + trash, back to back to back to back. People don't have time or patience for that, thus they are dead.

Can we get more posts in here to possibly get us a community mod response? If this thread doesn't get enough attention our suggestions will never be passed on to the dev team. :\

Again:

My proposal would be that the weekly reward for completing a tower run would be:

• 20 Tomes of Lore
• 40 Tomes of Esoterics
• 100 Allied Seals
• 100 Tomes of Poetics
• 100 Centurio Seals

Would you run the tower raids if those were your rewards aside from any gear you may get?

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

24-man raids take far longer than any other roulette, and have a much higher chance of breaking apart mid-run due to an enormous variety of factors. What type of daily bonus could they possibly put in that would make that time requirement appealing?

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I'd do it for a bunch of XP. They added XP to the mobs, so I'd be leveling all my 50-60 dudes every day in there.

Because, in addition, I like the place.

Some people won't want to do it. Cool. That's fine. I don't really do EX roulette because I get my highest end tomestones elsewhere, and there's just not a lot of reason for me to go in there. Just because me, and a bunch of others don't want to do it, doesn't mean that others won't.

But a 24-man raid roulette would be done by many people, including me. And it would be great.

Did a ST run with my lvl 55 whm last night, they didn't actually add exp to the mobs, but you get exp for clearing the tower itself. Got a 5% exp at lvl 55... beats nothing I guess.

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Originally Posted by Zhao_Yun

You actually only roll against your party for the Orchestrion Roll and not against the whole alliance. Echidna Card is party roll as well if I remember correctly.

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Echidna card is definitely alliance. Had 9 different rolls on it last run.

I propose a different solution.

If you run it at level 50, you have to go in 24 man yes.

If you run it at level 60, you go in as 8 man (with one mini-boss automatically skipped in each of LOTA/WOD because there's no way you can do that 8 man). Here's how the 8-man versions would work.
Party composition:
Labyrinth of the Ancients: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 4 DPS
Syrcus Tower: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 6 DPS
World of Darkness: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 6 DPS.

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Originally Posted by Abylim

Echidna card is definitely alliance. Had 9 different rolls on it last run.

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And even if you have it you can still need. Heck, if you already have one or have claimed the card already making it greed only would go a LONG way to fixing the problem.

They should have just keep the card a personal drop directly into inventory imo. Putting the card into the 4th chest to deal with the "4th chest is too rare" complaints is an insult to the players.

3.2 have many things done right and I'm really grateful to the development team, but things like this "band aid" and the tower music loot table seriously grant me instant 5 stack of wraith... And I really want to Fell Cleave someone... ugh...

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

3.2 have many things done right and I'm really grateful to the development team, but things like this "band aid" and the tower music loot table seriously grant me instant 5 stack of wraith... And I really want to Fell Cleave someone... ugh...

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Then swap to Deliverance and Fell Cleave someone! LOL

I think square should just mog mail every item from them to every player.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I propose a different solution.

If you run it at level 50, you have to go in 24 man yes.

If you run it at level 60, you go in as 8 man (with one mini-boss automatically skipped in each of LOTA/WOD because there's no way you can do that 8 man). Here's how the 8-man versions would work.
Party composition:
Labyrinth of the Ancients: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 4 DPS
Syrcus Tower: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 6 DPS
World of Darkness: 2 tanks, 1 healer, 6 DPS.



And even if you have it you can still need. Heck, if you already have one or have claimed the card already making it greed only would go a LONG way to fixing the problem.

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Err just so you know, your 3 suggested party compositions are 7 man, and 9 man. Not 8 man lol

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I think square should just mog mail every item from them to every player.

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Just because you don't desire an item doesn't mean we should get screwed over for it. There's a difference between rare and uncalled for gating. How often, if any complaints (on this forum, outside of this thread) was directed towards 8 man content Orchestrion drop? I don't recall seeing any within the past week or so. There's plenty of good reason that we have already listed in our complaints regarding the towers Orchestrion drop. Hell, we even provided a couple suggestions on improving the situation. We aren't exactly asking it to be serve on a silver plate, mind you. We do put in our share of work into getting the items too, but the current conditions is simply unpleasant. And also, as I'd mentioned on another Orchestrion thread. There's a player on Tonberry server showing off his music scroll by placing it on the mb for 100 mil. If that's not fk'ed up, I don't know what is. Hence once again, may I humbly request for SE to consider changing the tower Orchestrion drop to drop directly into player's inventory like the 4 man dungeons ones please.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Then swap to Deliverance and Fell Cleave someone! LOL

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I would if I could, and there's already someone on this thread which I feel like setting up a date with my axe (after the person who decided on the tower Orchestrion loot table).