Jumping and swimming 2.0

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RPGSite: Last question… what core mechanics—if any—are being drawn from western MMO developers? Such as the option to do things like swimming and jumping?
Yoshida: I’m a very hardcore gamer, and one of the first things when I got onto FFXIV was that I wanted to add a jump feature. When I threw that out to the community, what surprised me was that a lot of players were against that idea. Their complaint was that you shouldn’t be able to jump in a FINAL FANTASY game!
Just because it’s in all the other MMOs, does it fit with the image of FINAL FANTASY? For example, people didn’t want to see Lalafells jumping all around.
Personally, I don’t like the fact that my character is bound to the ground, so I definitely want to add a jump feature.

[as seen HERE]

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Please please please Yoshi-P! Follow up on your feeling to have free jumping in FFXIV!!
(also swimming)

This is the one thing I am asking for 2.0: ability to freely jump whenever and wherever I want (with maps that support jumping obviously).

As long as there is a cool-down for jump, all is good. Seeing half the server running around like kangaroos isn't very immersive.

As for swimming, I think Blitzball will be a nice addition...:confused:

Anything that makes the community look like clowns is a negative in my book.

Including free jumping, non-restricted naming scheme (LoLlErSwArrIoR-98 is not what we need here), non-restricted character customization options (lalafell sized roegadyn wearing rainbow colored equipment) and so on.

I'm glad that Yoshida doesn't bend over on every community wish though. Just keep it classy for Llymlaenn's sake.

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Originally Posted by tymora

As long as there is a cool-down for jump, all is good. Seeing half the server running around like kangaroos isn't very immersive.

As for swimming, I think Blitzball will be a nice addition...:confused:

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When someone in real life jumps, he has to gather momentum. In most RPGs, when jumping, the character don't even have to crouch and gather momentum to jump. It allows for instant jumping. A practical and realistic way to put a "cooldown" on jumping would be to have people gather that small moment by crouching before jumping. I think it would both look nice, even if some persons decide to do the kangaroo.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Anything that makes the community look like clowns is a negative in my book.

Including free jumping, non-restricted naming scheme (LoLlErSwArrIoR-98 is not what we need here), non-restricted character customization options (lalafell sized roegadyn wearing rainbow colored equipment) and so on.

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I believe more than 90% of the players dislike seeing clown-players. I, for one, dislike seeing clowns as well. However, the present situation of allowing jumping is irrelevant. There will be as much clowns in FFXIV v2.0 as there is in the present game. We can already see people poorly dressed in subligar and rainbow armours, people with ridiculous names (even with the current proper naming scheme!), but they represent a minority of players. Just as much as kangaroos will be a minority of players.

So, please, remember we are talking for the majority of players. Jumping will not look silly. :)

Thank you for your understanding!

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

I believe more than 90% of the players dislike seeing clown-players. I, for one, dislike seeing clowns as well. However, the present situation of allowing jumping is irrelevant. There will be as much clowns in FFXIV v2.0 as there is in the present game. We can already see people poorly dressed in subligar and rainbow armours, people with ridiculous names (even with the current proper naming scheme!), but they represent a minority of players. Just as much as kangaroos will be a minority of players.

So, please, remember we are talking for the majority of players. Jumping will not look silly. :)

Thank you for your understanding!

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I think more than 90% of people jump like bunnies too. They don't see themselves as clowns, and the threshold for doing such activity is pretty low. You just need to press space.

In XI I remember playing with the camera when I was bored. My friends who were watching me play were always annoyed at me for doing it. People do that kind of stuff when they're bored. And I agree, it looked silly, but at least nobody else had to bear it.

That said I think it requires a different kind of effort to name your character as something silly or wear clown clothes than do stupid things when you're bored.

The jumping idea is just silly. No matter how much you work at it, it just seems like jumping never looks realistic in a video game. FFXIV just isn't meant to be a platformer. If I want to play Super Mario Bros, I'll go do that.

Now... Blitzball on the other hand! I could do that for hours and hours and hours.

Would be great for each LS to be able to make their own team.

Sadly it does not even matter how much of a % dislike the jumping idea yoshi-p going to add it because wow have it and most mmo have it. I for one don't want it because unlike wow it not going to be fun i can't go top of a house or jump house to house and free fall down so there real no point in added if it going to be limit too that top of that just don't feel like a final fantasy even if ff13 have jump.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Sadly it does not even matter how much of a % dislike the jumping idea yoshi-p going to add it because wow have it and most mmo have it. I for one don't want it because unlike wow it not going to be fun i can't go top of a house or jump house to house and free fall down so there real no point in added if it going to be limit too that top of that just don't feel like a final fantasy even if ff13 have jump.

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Do you ever stop complaining about World of Warcraft? Also, I have yet to see one legitimate reason as to why jumping shouldn't be implemented. I see a lot of "I don't personally like it", and a few "it's pointless!", but nothing suggesting from a game design point of view why it's a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

Do you ever stop complaining about World of Warcraft? Also, I have yet to see one legitimate reason as to why jumping shouldn't be implemented. I see a lot of "I don't personally like it", and a few "it's pointless!", but nothing suggesting from a game design point of view why it's a bad idea.

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First let's start by the forums are here so we view our points if there no point in jump then i don't want it if it only a one thing deal that you use to jump to point A to point B and can't use it again too other part of the game use it then i'm fine with it. I can say the same thing about suggesting why is a good idea to add jump? from a game design point of view it's a good idea? If there no point in it to use within a areas of the game then there no point of adding it.

I can care less if they add it but if really not use for anything or only a few areas then it should be limit to only used within that area.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

Do you ever stop complaining about World of Warcraft? Also, I have yet to see one legitimate reason as to why jumping shouldn't be implemented. I see a lot of "I don't personally like it", and a few "it's pointless!", but nothing suggesting from a game design point of view why it's a bad idea.

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Thank you for your support on jumping! :D
I, too, noticed that of the people against jumping. Their main argument is to simply restrain others from jumping because they find it silly! My answer to this: keep your shackles for yourself.

Yoshi-P already said that MMOs are like theme parks and need to have many different things to appeal to a wide variety of people. I believe jumping is one them. Not everyone will do everything in a theme park, you simply ignore what you dislike and go do what you like.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

That said I think it requires a different kind of effort to name your character as something silly or wear clown clothes than do stupid things when you're bored.

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Exactly, that's why I believe we won't see many kangaroos. You just said it yourself, it's normal players being bored. They might jump a few times while going for something else more interesting to do, but in the end, it will be a rare occurrence. Just like people dressing as rainbow clowns right now, some of them put effort into looking silly while others are simply using functional clothes to craft/gather something for a few minutes. Unlike silly player names like xXxLolSephirothXxX, for example, which are permanent, jumping and dressing as a clown are behaviours that can change anytime. This is why I believe we don't need shackles. As much as every player should have access to a wide range of different clothes and different colours, players should be allowed to jump and swim to their liking.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I can care less if they add it but if really not use for anything or only a few areas then it should be limit to only used within that area.

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It was mentioned numerous times in previous jumping debate threads: jumping will add another dimension to the gameplay. Dungeons will be able to have hidden spots only reachable through carefully planned jumps, players will be able to knock off opponents in pits or fall of a cliff themselves if they are not careful (more positioning strategy!), bypass obstacles easily (which is much better than having immaterial fences we can pass through, like we currently have at some places), and many other original content. THAT is why I want to see jumping added in FFXIV 2.0 along with maps that support jumping and have things hidden out of reach of grounded players.

If you dislike jumping, just don't jump when it comes out. But we, jumping enthusiasts, will gladly enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

So, please, remember we are talking for the majority of players. Jumping will not look silly. :)

Thank you for your understanding!

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Not sure where you are getting this idea from.

I for one, would not like to have jump added unless in an instance or for a specific area, where you click something and you jump over a creek for example.

I don't see the need for jump.

Unless it serves a purpose in the game, I say no thanks.

I don't get people's obsession with jump. There's plenty of games out there that your character doesn't jump simply because it's not a part of the game.

If raids and bosses are created with jumping and swimming in mind as tactics then it's absolutely fine. But first they need to fix the server issues. If the game doesn't know that I moved off Ifrit's Eruption area, it certainly won't know I properly timed a jump.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

If raids and bosses are created with jumping and swimming in mind as tactics then it's absolutely fine. But first they need to fix the server issues. If the game doesn't know that I moved off Ifrit's Eruption area, it certainly won't know I properly timed a jump.

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They are fixing that in version 2.0 (or sooner) according to Yoshi-P. :)
That's also why they need to design the maps and other features to support jumping as well, right now for 2.0.

Jump need only have a negative impact on your movement speed to please everyone. If there's a take off and landing time built into the animation, not only will it look better, it will slow you down compared to just running, and thus prevent players from using jump outside of horsing around and actually needing to scale something/clear something.

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Originally Posted by tymora

As long as there is a cool-down for jump, all is good. Seeing half the server running around like kangaroos isn't very immersive.

As for swimming, I think Blitzball will be a nice addition...:confused:

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Blitzball rocks!

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

Jump need only have a negative impact on your movement speed to please everyone. If there's a take off and landing time built into the animation, not only will it look better, it will slow you down compared to just running, and thus prevent players from using jump outside of horsing around and actually needing to scale something/clear something.

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I agree to that too. Even just a short slow down would be sufficient to discourage the show off kangaroos (the minority of players) because they would fall behind their team mates or be avoided easily by other players (can't chase someone to annoy him if you are falling behind). Then again, it would be a minority of players, I believe we shouldn't base our whole decision on jumping because of them.

Oh yay, another jumping thread for me to post in.

Once again (What is this, the 11th thread now?), I'll vote no for free-jumping and froggie-hoppers ruining immersion.
The moment I see everyone hopping to every destination is the moment I no longer take this game seriously and lose the will to log on. I would LOVE to see a jump like in Zelda though, where once you get to the egde of something you automatically jump down. OR FF13, where you jump when it's NEEDED. Otherwise it's a useless annoyance.

And I really don't want it to ruin PvP for me. I'm really really looking forward to PvP.. Not BunnyvBunny.

I fully support this effort and wish for this thread to be as epic as ever. Let's not forget climbing either!

Edit: Here is my thread on why I think climbing should be considered as much as jumping and swimming.

Oh lawd here we go again.

I agree with Nabiri and Sephrick.

I say no to jumping and swimming *unless* it serves an actual purpose. As of right now, there's no way it could serve a purpose. But if 2.0 were designed to incorporate it, or if it was implemented in special battles etc. Then it'd be cool. (I guess...)

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Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

Oh lawd here we go again.

I agree with Nabiri and Sephrick.

I say no to jumping and swimming *unless* it serves an actual purpose. As of right now, there's no way it could serve a purpose. But if 2.0 were designed to incorporate it, or if it was implemented in special battles etc. Then it'd be cool. (I guess...)

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Hi again Crystal! That's what we're asking for as well. Jumping is great to have, but would serve a true purpose if there were things to jump to or avoid. Same goes with swimming. So now you can be happy about it! Doesn't it feel great to agree?

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Hi again Crystal! That's what we're asking for as well. Jumping is great to have, but would serve a true purpose if there were things to jump to or avoid. Same goes with swimming. So now you can be happy about it! Doesn't it feel great to agree?

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Hello again sir. Yes that I can agree with, but a lot of people make it seem like they want jump "just because" or because everyone else has it etc. So yeah, I just hope it has purpose if it's implemented ;_;

It's annoying when you have to walk much more just because you can't jump.
It should be great to have jump on FF XIV, and sincerely I don't see why someone can be against this feature.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Sadly it does not even matter how much of a % dislike the jumping idea yoshi-p going to add it because wow have it and most mmo have it. I for one don't want it because unlike wow it not going to be fun i can't go top of a house or jump house to house and free fall down so there real no point in added if it going to be limit too that top of that just don't feel like a final fantasy even if ff13 have jump.

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Most FF games have had jumping. Scripted jumping, but jumping nevertheless. Hell there's an ability called JUMP.

Only just joined, but the first thing I noticed when playing FFXIV was the fact you can't jump. I hate to say it but to me it's gamebreaking. The fact that you can't jump off mountains or ledges really takes away the freedom in an MMO, and there's nothing more annoying than having to go all the way around because your character hits an invisible wall with a 1 meter drop.

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Originally Posted by Saboto

Only just joined, but the first thing I noticed when playing FFXIV was the fact you can't jump. I hate to say it but to me it's gamebreaking. The fact that you can't jump off mountains or ledges really takes away the freedom in an MMO, and there's nothing more annoying than having to go all the way around because your character hits an invisible wall with a 1 meter drop.

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The issue here is pretty much that you can't slide down the ledges. Jumping won't fix this (at least not before they re-do the programming of the maps) unless it's an animation jump as I have suggested before, which works like every FF game. Walk to the ledge and it jumps automatically.

There is a misconception about jumping being an innovative factor, it's not. The only genre in which not having jump is gamebreaking are platformers. Super Mario World for the SNES was the first game I ever played and if I recall right that was in 1992.

Not having jump was a choice of design.

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Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

Hello again sir. Yes that I can agree with, but a lot of people make it seem like they want jump "just because" or because everyone else has it etc. So yeah, I just hope it has purpose if it's implemented ;_;

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Where we disagree is mainly that I'd be fine even if they didn't give jump more purpose. But essentially, I think the entire community would agree that if jump actually had a fundamental purpose in the landscape, like light platforming in dungeons, and lower levels to discover to jump down to; there would be no reason to feel jump be pointless. I'm REALLY hoping Yoshi delayed his decision to implement jump to coincide with the redesign, cuz that would be the smartest thing he could do about jump at this point. That and an anti-spam cooldown/stamina bar for it.

I'm not for the prompted jump that FFXIII and Zelda had because that would be WAY too much work for the devs coding each and every little area that you could be prompted to jump for every nook of the world. That kind of design works best with single player RPG's. Even then, FFXIII-2 has free jump and looks fine.

Man, that video makes me want my own moogle hovering over my shoulder to point out secrets for me. Imagine if everyone had their own customizable moogles akin to Link's fairy.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Where we disagree is mainly that I'd be fine even if they didn't give jump more purpose. But essentially, I think the entire community would agree that if jump actually had a fundamental purpose in the landscape, like light platforming in dungeons, and lower levels to discover to jump down to; there would be no reason to feel jump be pointless. I'm REALLY hoping Yoshi delayed his decision to implement jump to coincide with the redesign, cuz that would be the smartest thing he could do about jump at this point. That and an anti-spam cooldown/stamina bar for it.

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I agree that *hopefully* Yoshi would implement jump in a way to work with 2.0. So it's..you know..useful. And a cool down would be nice..

As for the rest of your post, let's just agree to disagree o_o

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Originally Posted by Fujimori

It's annoying when you have to walk much more just because you can't jump.
It should be great to have jump on FF XIV, and sincerely I don't see why someone can be against this feature.

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Do you actually think jumping would make you faster? That's what chocobos are for..
And sure jumping would make you go higher, but we're able to walk over all the tiny ledges and such that jump would be used for anyways.
So in other words, jump is useless. (For now anyways)

I think we should continue this discussion with this in mind: if jumps is implemented into FFXIV, it will have a useful purpose (feel free to continue giving suggestion as to what a "useful purpose" is). With the current maps filled with invisible walls, of course that jumping would be a real disappointment. That is why my hope goes with 2.0 and the new maps.

(And jumping roof to roof once in a while is fun. :p)

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Originally Posted by Reliquia

The issue here is pretty much that you can't slide down the ledges. Jumping won't fix this (at least not before they re-do the programming of the maps) unless it's an animation jump as I have suggested before, which works like every FF game. Walk to the ledge and it jumps automatically.

There is a misconception about jumping being an innovative factor, it's not. The only genre in which not having jump is gamebreaking are platformers. Super Mario World for the SNES was the first game I ever played and if I recall right that was in 1992.

Not having jump was a choice of design.

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And if you notice the 1st design team did a terrible job? All I been reading in the thread is crying about how "they" don't want to see people jumping like kangaroos, if that is your only argument than you need to just stop and accept the fact that its going to happen.The way I see it with them implementing jump, its going to give the design team more avenues as to designing certain boss encounters because as of right now, the only thing that makes these so called end game encounters hard is the server lag and animation lock?I don't see that as much of a mechanic for an end game boss encounter.The more freedom there is in character movement the more they can do to make the fights challenging.I for one am all for free-jumping, I can careless for people running around like kangaroos, you know why? because it doesn't directly affect my gameplay.So GO for jump and GO for more character movement freedom IE: swimming

First post necro post?

Epic.

I can see jumps working in FFXIV but only if they work like they do in FFXIII. Swimming on the other hand. Give me blitzball (Or something similar but renamed) and a place to swim with my suit and i'll be happy.

Its alllllive!

I'll throw my hat in, cause i have 13 more hours to kill :)

I like the idea of a fully animated jump. Slowdown, knee bend, landing animation etc. even a running jump style animation. This could serve a couple purposes.

1: Holds down on bunny hopping. Which i think often downgrades alot of a games aestetic style. And makes PVP somewhat absurd. May as well put a brick on your space bar while pvping in alot of games. And if thats how folks want it just put a PVP toggle for constant hopping.

2:bigger longer higher jumps could be possible if you can't rapid fire them. Not talking about superman leaps. but if we assume our characters are generally fit and strong a 6+ foot leap is in the realm of reality never mind fantasy.

My overall point is to add jumping just to hop half a foot off the ground in rapid sucsession adds little to the game save hopping over a small fence, somewhat annoying to absurd looking pvp element and Uldah herdfest but with jumping.

But if we think of jumping as a more powerful longer distance mechanic you could really add some awesome exploration. Leaping over a fissure in the ground filled with lava is much more epic if the gap is 6 or so feet with a strong leap and maybe a roll at the end, then to bunny hop a 2 foot crack.

when I read that people were complaining about jump, I had to think really hard about how it's a bad thing...I came up with nothing. I've played MMO's for 8 years, and never once has anyone ever complained about being able to jump lol. it's silly that a rock can impede progress in 1 direction, it's also amazing since people are so attached to correct reality simulating mechanics, and real life physics in games, well...people can jump in real life, let's jump in a game too please. and to say that it's a tradition on behalf of former FF games seems a bit silly as well, this game is obviously breaking many of those traditions already in order to bring you something DIFFERENT. evolution is a good thing, progress is a good thing.

TL;DR version - jumping is good.

I pray to god they do not add jump garbage. If I want to see a bunch of retards jumping around liek rabbits on drugs I'll go play Wow or Rift, which is better then wow in most cases.

Maybe jumping on certain quests when in that instance, but not in general. It turns into the mmo version of Romper Room.

I just think if it's more like FFXIII that they put the mark on specific place to do jump. This way this way we can have more than jump. Some place might asked you to slide down the road, climb the small hill. It should look more adventure. I don't really mind if we have free jump or not but I hope that there would be more on adventure side.

I'd love an action command to jump, as in I have to press a certain button as an attack or obstacle is in my way. With this you would probably get a dodge action too which could add some depth to combat making timing a priority. Add a stamina bar so players use it when necessary and I think we'll have little issue with such a feature.

But combat really isn't that frantic to require any of this so really just don't see the point of a bunny hop button:/ Seems like a waste of developers time to introduce a feature that will only amuse me for all of 5 mins...