AST QoL Changes

I know, I know. There are a ton of AST threads but wanted to focus mainly on small QoL changes that wouldn't change the overall gameplay of the job, just minor buffs to certain abilities. Most are inline with the buffer aspect of the job.

*Lv.46 Gravity - add a 10s slow effect
Lv.52 Combust II - Make this AoE similar to Aero III

*Collective Unconscious - Restore 10% of the AST mana

*The Spear - I love the concept of this card but it needs to work on action already on cooldown. If you can't fix this problem then maybe the card needs to be changed.

As a hard and fast loyal Astro some of these changes sound great. Only one that would be difficult is Ewen being both MP and TP as currently it flat fails on Dark Knights in Grit. So that would have be tweaked if you want them to get the TP from the card. That Lightspeed change would be a bit too much lol.

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Originally Posted by KorraBelle

As a hard and fast loyal Astro some of these changes sound great. Only one that would be difficult is Ewen being both MP and TP as currently it flat fails on Dark Knights in Grit. So that would have be tweaked if you want them to get the TP from the card. That Lightspeed change would be a bit too much lol.

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Yea, I changed it to something more useful.

Having an instant +10% MP isn't a bad idea but I would rather not have it tied to lightspeed. MP regen mechanics encourage you to pop abilities as often as cooldown allows, when Lightspeed is best served as something you pop when most needed.

Moving Gravity to a level lower than 52 is the best change on this list. Then maybe I can run 50 roulette on AST again. Giving Combust II the free Bane treatment that Aero III enjoys is also not a bad idea.

Making Time Dilation an AoE is unnecessary, as that's the entire purpose of Celestial Opposition's existence. Additionally you are not supposed to be able to dilate yourself, though I still haven't a clue why this is.

I won't comment on card tweaks because my problems with AST are largely its mana management in raids, or lack thereof.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Making Time Dilation an AoE is unnecessary, as that's the entire purpose of Celestial Opposition's existence. Additionally you are not supposed to be able to dilate yourself, though I still haven't a clue why this is.

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Basically I'm trying to give a secondary Royal Road type of effect to help with buffs. Currently we have two abilities to increase time but none for potency.

Not sure why spire needs to be changed and tact on ewer. Putting a healing buff on range seems a bit redundant when our healing strength is tied with the white mage already.

These aren't QoL changes, these are plain buff requests :P

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

These aren't QoL changes, these are plain buff requests :P

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Well I would hope so. It would be weird to ask for QoL that were nerfs ;P

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Not sure why spire needs to be changed and tact on ewer. Putting a healing buff on range seems a bit redundant when our healing strength is tied with the white mage already.

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To be blunt, combining them opens up spire for something else. Healing don't really get any love in the card buffs and it would be nice to have something that helps out co-healers.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well I would hope so. It would be weird to ask for QoL that were nerfs ;P

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QoL changes are neither buffs nor nerfs. They are simply changes for the sake of convenience, for example Stoneskin II. Literally every change presented by the OP is a buff request, nothing to do with QoL at all.

Lol you can't be serious.

Making Time Dilation AoE is wayyyy OP.

The only things here that actually sound good are the changes to Gravity/Combust II and CU.

A reasonable QoL change would be an instant proc on Collective Unconscious instead of the "wait for 3 seconds... Maybe?" nonsense we have to suffer through now (and please do the same for Sacred Soil, up to 3s is an eternity in a raid context). This isn't fun and doesn't feel good to use at all.

It works for Ley Lines, there's no reason it shouldn't work for similarly targeted abilities.

as an ast main all i have to say is: no, just no, that would make ast too op and possibly a mandatory class in raids, its fine as it is (mostly)

I don't believe you know the difference between QoL and Buff.

These are buffs you're asking for, not QoLs. And I do feel they are unnecessary at this time. AST is in a good spot with its existing toolkit and doesn't need buffs of these levels.

Only suggestion I like here is the Gravity/Combust II swap (not the change to make Combust II an Aero III-clone that would never miss though). TD doesn't need to be AoE since you have CO for that, but what would be nice is if you could cast it on yourself.

The only thing AST desperately needs is A LOT more way to recover MP, which I read somewhere that it's being addressed in the next patch. Seriously, the MP in this job is gone before you look at the bar to see if you should pop your cooldown.

Funny the only moment i'm struggling with mana is when I solo heal Faust savage
Luminiferous aether and ewer are enough for me...

Since the AST mana consomption is lower than the other it's easy to save up some mana x3

I like the change suggested
I mean... Lower level aoe damage ? Yeeees ! I want

What i would like is.... That spear do reduced instantly all the remaining active cooldown, and reduce also unused cooldown
Like... -10% of the cooldown on the target (no matter if the card is still on the character or not)

So during the card the person could use his CD and know that the skill will come back faster
And that all of his used CD will also be available faster

Because most of the time...
You put à spear... But no CD are used... Or too big CD and the card do not last long enough to be useful

Best Ast changes thread, too many of these threads want to reinvent the wheel. These are realistic and smart changes.

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Originally Posted by Remyus_Nara

Making Time Dilation AoE is wayyyy OP.

The only things here that actually sound good are the changes to Gravity/Combust II and CU.

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Well I was trying to have one ability to enhance buffs and one to extend duration opposed to two that just extend buffs.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I don't believe you know the difference between QoL and Buff.

These are buffs you're asking for, not QoLs. And I do feel they are unnecessary at this time. AST is in a good spot with its existing toolkit and doesn't need buffs of these levels.

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Please feel free to explain the difference then. To me, any change that improves QoL is by definition a buff. Shuffle is getting buffed in 3.2.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Please feel free to explain the difference then. To me, any change that improves QoL is by definition a buff. Shuffle is getting buffed in 3.2.

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Here's an example with a different context:
You order a meal. It's served on a plate with no utensils

Getting utensils to eat the meal would be a QoL improvement
Getting an upgrade from junk food to some gourmet 3-star meal would be a buff

In this case, what you're asking is a meal upgrade

I would rather have the 10% MP restore come from Celestial Opposition over Collective Unconscious.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Here's an example with a different context:
You order a meal. It's served on a plate with no utensils

Getting utensils to eat the meal would be a QoL improvement
Getting an upgrade from junk food to some gourmet 3-star meal would be a buff

In this case, what you're asking is a meal upgrade

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Sorry but anytime something is improved in the MMO genres, it's either a buff or a nerf. Also your real world analogy doesn't work to well in relation to video games. QoL is basically the state of living, nothing more nothing less. Changes to that state are just that; changes rather good or bad, buff or nerf. Lastly the oddest thing I found in this discussion was people getting hung up on definition of a word rather than the substance of the content. Sign of the time I guess.

Here's the thing.

QoL changes are minor minor things. Ala animation locks. They just make the spells/skills/abilities easier to use rather than outfight buff them. An example of this would be the change to a dragoon's animation lock with their jump skills or mudra lag for ninjas. The skills/abilites aren't buff, they're just easier to use. Another example of a QoL change is what happened to royal road in patch 3.1 where you keep whatever one you got before exiting or leaving a dungeon.

Buffs consider more with potency, cooldowns and properties. Like what happened to the astro in 3.07 where their potencies were increased, some cooldowns shortered abilities improved etc.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Lastly the oddest thing I found in this discussion was people getting hung up on definition of a word rather than the substance of the content. Sign of the time I guess.

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I think you've had enough responses helping you distinguish between the two, so I won't add to that. The reason people are 'hung up' on it is because you kind of mislead everyone and simply make another of many, many, many, many, many, many ... many AST buff threads. We simply do not need more. :'D

Staying on topic though, an actual QoL change I'd like to see for both AST and SCH is to get Stoneskin II. I don't raid with a WHM so it's just annoying casting for 8 targets. ... (another example right there)

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Please feel free to explain the difference then. To me, any change that improves QoL is by definition a buff. Shuffle is getting buffed in 3.2.

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QoL change means Quality of Life change and is generally a change that doesn't actually change the power level of the game and is more of a convenience.

For example, one of the changes requested in the general OF is to have abilities reset after a wipe. This doesn't change how the game plays but allows raid groups more attempts in a single sitting without waiting for their CD timers. Convenience, but doesn't change how they would do the fight since they're generally waiting on most potions / CDs to come off.

The shuffle change S-E is asking for is a buff (albeit minor) because it changes the probability of what cards an AST will shuffle into by removing one option from the deck temporarily.

Overall speaking, most changes suggested are either a buff or nerf and few are straight QoLs.

I believe you are splitting hairs. A quality of life change is a buff if it removes unneeded complexity. Whether or not it increases the retaliative strength of the job is besides the point. Lessening unnecessary complexity to give players a bit of wiggle room to deal with other aspects of the job could be seen as a buff.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

I believe you are splitting hairs. A quality of life change is a buff if it removes unneeded complexity. Whether or not it increases the retaliative strength of the job is besides the point. Lessening unnecessary complexity to give players a bit of wiggle room to deal with other aspects of the job could be seen as a buff.

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Out of curiosity, would you consider the current OP's post a QoL change or straight buffs? Before the OP editted their post, they also suggested changes such as a 15% Balance and 40s Arrow, combining Spire's effect with Ewer and making Spire provide a healing potency boost.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sorry but anytime something is improved in the MMO genres, it's either a buff or a nerf. Also your real world analogy doesn't work to well in relation to video games. QoL is basically the state of living, nothing more nothing less. Changes to that state are just that; changes rather good or bad, buff or nerf. Lastly the oddest thing I found in this discussion was people getting hung up on definition of a word rather than the substance of the content. Sign of the time I guess.

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Oh is it now? The objective is still there: To commit a particular action. Be it real world or digital. QoL changes would suggest changes that would help someone make achieving said actions easier. Past QoL changes:
Mudra changes
Stoneskin II
Hallowed Ground responsiveness

Or QoL changes some people want/are coming:
CD resets on wipe
Instant effect upon deploying field/ground abilities
More responsiveness on Umbral Ice/Astral Fire application
Add-on customisation

None of those above directly impacted the intended action by making it stronger or better. Yes, there may be an improvement on performance as a result. Or rather, it was a disadvantage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. What happened to Astrologian that are just simply buffs:
Increased potencies on healing spells
20% MP reduction on Lightspeed
Increased healing potency on Synastry

Do you see the correlation between pass buffs and QoL changes and these "QoL changes" you propose? Otherwise, just look at everyone else correcting you on your idea of "Quality of Life"

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Out of curiosity, would you consider the current OP's post a QoL change or straight buffs? Before the OP editted their post, they also suggested changes such as a 15% Balance and 40s Arrow, combining Spire's effect with Ewer and making Spire provide a healing potency boost.

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I was going what I was reading at hand and not before his edited version but of course 15% balance or 40 second arrow is a straight up buff or anything else that increases potency or pure healing strength of the job. a quality of life change when it removes unneeded complexity I see as being both since it makes it easier and more efficienct to play the job.

Indeed. I do agree about splitting hairs because I consider the shuffle chsngr a buff where some would call it a QoL. Others would see Stoneskin II a QoL as well but I see it a minor buff since it does change how I decide to use SC in 4-mans.

@Dyvid people are getting hung over the definition because you titled your post to be QoLs and what you're suggesting is no where near QoL level changes. It's a semantic thing that speaks against your understanding if the game, unfortunately.

AST MP management is actually better than WHM. If anyone has a right to complain about MP issues, it's the WHMs.


Let's look at some MP math.

All of AST's primary healing toolkit is a copy+paste of WHM healing toolkit, including all the same potency.
Let's use Cure/Benefic in our example.

To simplify the math, let's ignore spell speed and natural MP regen, as well as SoS and LA MP regeneration (since it will be the same for both jobs and cancel out). Let's also assume both the WHM and AST have 10000 MP each to work with (for easy %-based calculations).
Since we are comparing MP regeneration rates, let's make it a 90s test since WHM's Assize has a 90s cooldown on it and is tied to their MP regen.

Cure/Benefic have a 2.5 second recast time (otherwise known as the GCD). This is the limiting factor of how much you can spam them. In a 90s period, they can be spammed a total of 36 times assuming chain-casting. Their MP costs are different though, as most of AST's healing abilities cost less MP than both WHM and SCH even though they are the same strength.

Over a 90 second spamfest
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Cure potency = 400 x 36 = 14,400 total heal potency
Cure MP cost = 442 x 36 = 15,912 MP spent
Assize MP regen = 10% x 10000 = 1000 MP recovered

Benefic potency = 400 x 36 = 14,400 total heal potency
Benefic MP cost = 354 x 36 = 12,744 MP spent
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So what does this all mean? This means that the total MP spent for each job's primary heal spell is
12,744 for AST
14,912 for WHM

Now since Benefic II is the same as Cure II, and Helios is the same as Medica, etc etc. you're going to have the same results for all these spells too. AST will have better MP management than WHM. For the sake of argument, let's do some math for Regen and Aspected Benefic (diurnal) since they are part of the bread-n-butter kit of both jobs.

Regen lasts 21 seconds for a total potency of 1050 (since each HoT ticks in 3 second intervals).
Aspected Benefic lasts for 18 seconds for a total potency of 1030.

Over a 90 second spamfest
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4 Regens + 32 Cures (filler) = 17,000 total heal potency
4 Regens + 32 Cures = 15,420 MP spent
1 Assize = 1000 MP recovered

5 A.Benefics + 31 Benefics = 17,550 total heal potency
5 A.Benefics + 31 Benefics = 14,509 MP cost
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So in the end the AST is going to have spent 14,500 MP for 17.5k healing and the WHM will have spent 14,400 MP for 17k healing. This means that for 100 MP more, the AST is gaining 500 healing potency more. That's about an additional Benefic worth of healing for only 100 MP. Again, AST has better MP efficiency than WHM.


Now I'm not going to do this for every single spell because I don't have that kind of time, but the point I'm making is that AST MP managment is not bad. It's, in fact, better than WHM's in almost all aspects. Hell, I didn't even account for Ewer since it's RNG-based, but even in a worse-case scenario where not a single Ewer is drawn an entire fight, AST is going to be better off than WHM. Yes abilities like Divine Seal and Synestry mix things up a bit, but so do abilities like Lightspeed which reduces AST MP cost by 25% and Essential Dignity which is a free heal every 40 seconds learned at level 15 and is practically the same strength as Tetragrammaton, which is only every 60 seconds and a WHM has no access to it until level 60. But then you also have to account for Assize being a free Medica/Helios even if it's on a 90s timer. It gets complicated, but AST is not the shitty MP-hungry healer everyone makes it out to be. If anything, WHM will probably see buffs in the coming months since it offers no party utility and doesn't gain THAT much healing power in return.

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Originally Posted by Velox

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Wonderful commitment.


But in the end this is no different than a AST purely healing with a piety build. If I had the time to do the math I would. But right now I'll simplify it for lazy sakes.


Ast has:

The Ewer


WHM has:

Shroud of saints



AST is on a RNG.


WHM is on a CD.


AST DPS skills are inefficiently high on potency.

WHM blasts out numbers and useful utility for high mana cost.


A.k.A for a AST to do anything as meaningful of a WHM. They will need to put in more MP because that's how WHM is more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Ast has:

The Ewer

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You forgot this: Luminiferous Aether, which is not RNG-based. It has the same MP refresh as Shroud of Saints, and has the same cooldown timer.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

AST DPS skills are inefficiently high on potency.

WHM blasts out numbers and useful utility for high mana cost.

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AST DPS skills are also independent of Accuracy checks. This means in high-end content, WHM's end up wasting more MP on "missed" attacks than AST does.
AST also has the ability to boost the raid DPS via cards like The Balance and The Arrow. It would be broken if AST could pump out as much theoretical DPS as a WHM while still retaining the capacity of buffing the party, something that WHM can't do. Even RNG-based support is support. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I don't mean to nitpick here, but don't formulate an argument unless you're dealing with all the facts.
Healer balancing is done assuming 3 different aspects of the jobs. The ability to heal, the ability to damage, and the ability to support. The more points you put into one, the less you can spend for the others. For instance, let's say each healer uses a 10 point system of balance. That means each healer gets 10 points to spend in the three aspects I listed above. A current snapshot of the healers might be something like this...

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WHM                          AST                      SCH
healing: 7pts                healing: 6pts            healing: 5pts
damage: 3pts                  damage: 1pts            damage: 4pts
support: 0pts                support: 3pts            support: 3pts

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Things are not that bad, nor that complicated when balancing. The more you gain in one area, the more you have to give up other areas. You can't have your cake and eat it too in MMORPGs. It's a game of tradeoffs.

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Originally Posted by Velox

1 Assize = 1000 MP recovered

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How undergeared is this white mage to an MP pool of 10000?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

How undergeared is this white mage to an MP pool of 10000?

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Eh, I just rounded it off assuming a fresh 60 job. You can make it 15000 to see how i200 gear plays into effect, or 20000 if you want to estimate what the MP recovery will be around patch 3.5-3.6. I figured it's better to account for the lower iLevel of a fresh 60 than a higher one since everything in MMOs are balanced around the minimum effective cost. If things are balanced around the maximum effective cost, then developers are forced to design content solely around that and it creates huge gear progression cliffs for newer players. That's why math and balancing done tends to be conservative.

There's a problem with your calculations, you don't take into account Freecure procs.

Every Freecure proc means that you save 442 Mana and you gain 250 potency heal. In a perfect world you would have 5 procs every 36 cures, but as we all know RNG can troll you and you can get 0 procs or 11 procs. I'm just going to take 5 procs because that would be the average if infinite people would do that experiment you proposed.

Assize scales with Piety, and that means the more MP the more Assize will restore (my WHM has 15000 MP at ilvl209 and that's because most of my gear gives me Piety) and we will have more MP the better gear we get.

Cure potency = 400 x 31 + 650 x 5 = 12400 + 3250 = 15650 total heal potency
Cure MP cost = 442 x 31 = 13702 MP spent
Assize MP regen = 10% x 12500 (it's a more accurate MP value for healers that have some piety) = 1250 MP recovered

Benefic potency = 400 x 36 = 14,400 total heal potency
Benefic MP cost = 354 x 36 = 12,744 MP spent

15650 heal potency for 12452 MP vs 14400 heal potency for 12744 spent.

Of course freecure procs are random, but with so many heals it's nearly impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 procs.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Of course freecure procs are random, but with so many heals it's nearly impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 procs.

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That is true, but Ewer is also on RNG. Then you also have the RNG of whether or not that Ewer will be enhanced or extended based on what you do with other draws.

RNG is a slippery slope that I don't like getting into because there's too many variables to account for. Even at 20% there's been 5+ minute fights where I've only seen Freecure proc once or twice, and even at 17% there's been 5+ minute fights where I've seen Ewer drawn 6 times in a row.

Therefore I decided to do the math based purely on worse-case scenarios. Assuming a WHM gets no Freecure procs and a AST gets no Ewer draws. I feel that's a bit more fair too given I ignored other MP management buffs, like Lightspeed. I understand fights are a conglomeration of any and all spells and abilities, and any and all combinations of these. To do the math for every combination would be outrageously complicated and time-consuming.

Like in physics, sometimes it's best to lay out your assumptions to make the math simple, even when in the real world you can't ignore those assumptions.

@Velox - I feel it's still important to account for freecure as freecure is what I feel edges WHM ahead of MP management and you have significantly more opportunities to proc freecure than try to draw Ewer.

Regardless of this though, the MP management tools that AST and WHM have are similar enough where they will have fairly similar management, in my opinion.

You can't treat the same way Freecure and Ewer.

Freecure is just a bonus for healing. You get the proc you use it.

Ewer is another whole scenario. When you get ewer you have too many possibilities and sometimes you aren't even going to use that ewer on yourself. You can RR, you can shuffle, you can even throw it to your other healer to help him, you may even discard it. There are so many posibilities and add the fact that you have 1/6 chances to get it that it's really impossible to factor in it. You can't treat ewer as a a fundamental part of the AST MP recovering kit, unlike WHM freecure procs.
Not that i'm not saying that AST can't use ewer on themselves, of course they can, but there are so many possibilities that I think it's mathematically impossible to factor how much to your MP restoration is Ewer contributing to AST.

Nonetheless, I think AST and WHM are fine in the MP management (while healing at least) so i'm not complaining at all.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

@Dyvid people are getting hung over the definition because you titled your post to be QoLs and what you're suggesting is no where near QoL level changes. It's a semantic thing that speaks against your understanding if the game, unfortunately.

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I"m over it. The title served it's purpose and got attention from the community. We shot down some suggest and agreed on other. Besides, I can't delete thread nor change the title so everyone is stuck with it. If anyone would like to see an enmity reduction added what ability would you add it too?