Sprint will cost no TP in PvP contents

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,
You won't be able to use these items inside The Feast, but we're adjusting Sprint so that while inside PvP content, it will be possible to use this action without consuming any TP.
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Honestly as Caster/Healer I find this pretty awful for those reasons:
. All melee DPS classes have one or more gap closer (Spineshatter dive, Dragonfire Dive, Overwhelm, Shukuchi, Shoulder Tackle) + Ninja trait that give him an higher speed and Monks Fist of Wind.

. Caster have to maintain a certain distance to be able to land efficently an hit, if someone chase them they could even be not able to cast nothing (even in Equanimity/Surecast) due to the target running behind you.

. In Wolves Den and probably in The Feast the arena will have walls that introduce a lot of LoS issue for casters (I'm not complaining about it, they have to be there) but as long as a caster would be able to freesprint could try to positionate himself rapidly and try to land a cast on a slower target.

. And most of all Weapon Throw... that skill was born to fuck up a strinting target because melee have to face the problem of a fleeing target but now that thay can heavily slower a sprinting target and sprint too, I find it totally inappropriate :/
(I already thought that ninja shouldn't have them among they pvp skill, considering Overwhelm, higher speed trait, Hyoton, Shukuchi... dear god XD )

I tried to think to a "more balanced" (in my opinion) way to adjust sprint expecially for tank where the issue up to me was harder.
Give a new PvP ability to those classes that share the cooldown with sprint but:
. Has no TP cost
. Has 40-60 sec Cooldown or Give Sprint effect for 10-15 sec

So if u want to sprint just to run away u can still use sprint, if u need to use it to move faster among enemy lines and keep attacking you can still use it.

Or even nerf sprint in pvp for all, just give it a longer cooldown, so u wont' see casters be 2/3 of the time sprinting but only when strictly needed.

Just my opinion, let me know what you think about it and what jobs do you use most.

As a warrior all I have to say is om nomnomnom healers taste yummy

ineed heals

The good players will adjust

The bad players will scream nerf

As a caster I welcome this.

I was nervous when I first heard about this; we really will just have to see how it plays out when it comes out. The live letter even said that the beginning of feast will have adjustments made if necessary.

Or in the end, Feast will require you to be AST :/

Can I have my disease back

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

Can I have my disease back

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Oh you only want this for Secure, carrying on.

I really don't think this will make a difference one way or the other.

Firstly, this decision was probably made taking into account that there will be re-spawns in Feast. The map was made to accommodate 8 vs 8, so getting back into the action quickly is important (especially for healers). Secondly ... honestly, what's changed? As the OP already stated, MOST melee jobs (Pld and War do not have a gap closer, fyi) already have gap closers. The casters have to be in range for them to use it. Sprint makes no difference. If you're in range, you're in range. Popping a sprint is not going to stop it from going off. If you're not, then you don't need to use sprint anyway, so it's irrelevant.

Another thing is stuns work regardless of Tp cost. A caster can use Sprint whenever they want, but if they get hit by a Spineshatter dive or a Pld Shield Bash, they aren't going anywhere. That has not changed. Casters want to sprint to get away from the melee, sure, and it probably irks them that the melee can now cast sprint to keep up. Really, though, if the caster let the melee get that close in the first place then it's their own fault. They should have been more aware of their surroundings.

Lastly, none of this really makes a difference because a good PvP'er never worried about the Tp cost of sprint anyway. Enliven + Invigorate = Sprint on CD. Enliven + Icarus Wings = Sprint on CD. Done. A casual player might not take the time to set up their hotbar to do this, but a real PvP'er could already keep up with casters. It was annoying and clunky, but it was easily doable if they weren't being lazy. The Tp cost of Sprint was just window dressing.

The only thing that really changes with this is that Casters will have to actually be aware of their surroundings for a change and move preemptively instead of on knee jerk reactions. Given how much freedom of movement castes already have, I don't think there's really anything unbalanced about this. Not to mention the fact that casters already have multiple ways to stop melee's from chasing them around (sleep or bind, for example).

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

Can I have my disease back

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Probably wouldn't be a big deal if they at least returned the heavy effect to Miasma, since you have to hard cast it or blow a swiftcast, at a reduced duration of course (not 24 sec like in PVE). Unlikely that they would though because of Tri-disaster, unless they can disable the heavy for the Miasma coming from Tri-disaster. No way should they return it to Miasma II though, its instant and AOE. I'm not sure what the complaint about the malady is. Isnt it same potency as Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge? The raise would also be pretty pointless in modes that have respawning but I'm not sure what Feast will be having. Either way Wolves Den has no respawn therefore you will never get raise back in any PVP instance as smn/arc.

rip casters

We've not been told any changes to classes yet so I wouldn't be quick to jump on the RIP HEALERS/CASTERS wagon.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Firstly, this decision was probably made taking into account that there will be re-spawns in Feast.
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Secondly ... honestly, what's changed? As the OP already stated, MOST melee jobs (Pld and War do not have a gap closer, fyi) already have gap closers. The casters have to be in range for them to use it. Sprint makes no difference. If you're in range, you're in range. Popping a sprint is not going to stop it from going off. If you're not, then you don't need to use sprint anyway, so it's irrelevant.

Another thing is stuns work regardless of Tp cost. A caster can use Sprint whenever they want, but if they get hit by a Spineshatter dive or a Pld Shield Bash, they aren't going anywhere. That has not changed.
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Lastly, none of this really makes a difference because a good PvP'er never worried about the Tp cost of sprint anyway.
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[...]Not to mention the fact that casters already have multiple ways to stop melee's from chasing them around (sleep or bind, for example).

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I know War and PLD hasn't any gap closer for that I said that all DPSs melee classes have them x)
Anyway I didn't think why they made it and yes you're probably right for me, but I don't share your idea that this wont' change almost nothing for melee/casters.
When I go WAR I actually use Enliver/icarus wing with Sprint (also the Wrath/Abandon based attacks don't eat any TP) but I have to decide when I should pop it or not based on how many TP I can regain, after this the "skilled players" will pop it a lot more, don't come to tell me that it will help only who dont' know how to pvp, and this will by sure make the casters life harder both in Seal Rock and in WD2 (expecially for healers where they will lose sprint + heavy considering the forced party composition and all the Melee DPS have Wheapon trow while the melee will still have it) .

Also this will help the damned chasing in Seal Rock (that will probably almost die anyway after patch).

And for the "if you are not in range, you will still remain not in range" it is harder to explain, but allow a lot on new different patterns:
.In a not so big map where you have to turn who is running behind you can still gain space and let you enter in his range (not a problem in Cartenau, but it happens even sometimes in Seal Rock actually, and I think the Feast arena will anyway be a smaller than Seal Rock)
.Melee already used his gap closer and while chasing hope to be able to re-use them in a short amount of time
.It is a good and cheap Heavy counter ability expecially the weak heavy.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

We've not been told any changes to classes yet so I wouldn't be quick to jump on the RIP HEALERS/CASTERS wagon.

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I dont't think this will totally screw them, but I feel it not balanced, but yes we have to see what will change too.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Probably wouldn't be a big deal if they at least returned the heavy effect to Miasma, since you have to hard cast it or blow a swiftcast, at a reduced duration of course (not 24 sec like in PVE). Unlikely that they would though because of Tri-disaster, unless they can disable the heavy for the Miasma coming from Tri-disaster...

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Tridisaster put only the DoTs, it doesn't put heavy + Malady, anyway time ago I think about it and I would like to see Heavy from Miasma back (not from Miasma II) expecially for SCH, but right now SMN in Seal Rock are the most used job even without it because they are already powerful and easy to use, so I doubt that they right now will change it x)

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To me this will have a valuable impact to both Seal Rock and a 4vs4 content (actually I'm basing my opinion on Wolve's Den) and both for skilled and newcomers from pvp, anyway yep, let's see how this will work.

This is not like the Cleric Stance removal (I'm still crying for it xD)

Good fight scholar and whm, no more sprinting away enough to get a cast off. Our spells get interrupted by people hitting us, ya know :< (has all 3 healer classes at 60 and uses them all in pvp)

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

snip.

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Tri disaster doesn't add the effect of disease. I'm really wouldn't mind just having Miasma just apply the heavy, although I'm still not adverse to Miasma II applying the effect in PvP. Given Summoner's lack of defense, and melee having free sprint, I'd say heavy from Miasma II is warranted right now.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

I know War and PLD hasn't any gap closer for that I said that all DPSs melee classes have them x)

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I actually specified this part just to highlight them, because I think that War's and Pld's will benefit more from this change than any other jobs. Unlike melee Dps (or drks), this change actually levels the playing field for Wars and Plds, because they were traditionally at a massive disadvantage against ranged players. Sprint does not make up for the lack of a gap closer, but it helps even things out a little when a target they are hitting starts to rabbit away from them.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

I have to decide when I should pop it or not based on how many TP I can regain, after this the "skilled players" will pop it a lot more, don't come to tell me that it will help only who dont' know how to pvp, and this will by sure make the casters life harder both in Seal Rock and in WD2 (expecially for healers where they will lose sprint + heavy considering the forced party composition and all the Melee DPS have Wheapon trow while the melee will still have it).

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Keep in mind that Sprint will still be a CD (albeit a short one). You still have to chose when and where you want to use it. It's not as though removing the TP cost means that you can just pop it whenever you want. You have to plan if the use of the CD is worth it. That has not changed so much as just lightened up a little.

You're right that seasoned PvP'ers will have an obvious advantage in that they will know when and where is the best times to utilize sprint. Their experience will serve them well here, but this still closes the skill gap a little. Consider that before, to plan their Sprint and Tp adequately a player had to not only know when and where it was a good time to use sprint, but also how to adequately manage their TP after using it. That meant taking advantage of TP regen skills and items on top of having the tactical knowledge for the circumstances.

If they had left the TP cost on Sprint, any new players taking an interest in Feast would see seasoned WD players sprinting around and attacking without any knowledge of how they were doing it. When they figure out how to manage their TP and sprint freely, they are suddenly faced with the dilemma of teaching themselves when it is tactically correct to do so. The skill gap between current WD veterans and new players would be HUGE. Now, take the Tp cost off of Sprint. Suddenly new players only have to concern themselves with the tactics. There's less clutter. There's still a skill gap, because they have less experience, but that gap is not nearly as big. This is probably something SE considered when taking the TP cost away.

Right now, PvP (Wolves Den in particular) has been made into a little island of elite die-hard players who have been playing it since the start. New players are twisting in the breeze. If SE want's to make Feast successful, then they have to make it accessible to everyone. That means removing the clutter.

Besides, like I said before, Healers have plenty of ways to counter a sprinting target. The quickest is to just use a bind or sleep. It will require healers to pay a lot more attention to their surroundings and play more defensively, but that's what the pre-season is for: working out the kinks. Everyone will have to take advantage of that adjustment period, especially if they want to play in ranked matches.

Good change, imo that brings some needed PvP balance. Original poster is simply wetting his trousers in fear.

As primarily a melee/Bard, this seems kind of overkill without changes to cast interruption. They're already so easy to lock down...

The only way this would be remotely okay is if they give access to Cleric Stance back in PVP and give spell interupting diminishing returns like every single other status effect.

If I sleep someone, they'll wake up faster every time. If I heavy someone, it wears off faster every time. Eventually the ailment will be fully resisted. I can get hit thirty times and my vain attempts to cast a spell will be just as easily interrupted on the thirty-first blow as the first.

I can't do any meaningful damage, I can't actually heal because I can't get a spell off, and now I won't be able to run away? Do they not want healers to PvP at all anymore?

It seems a little strange to make such a sweeping balance adjustment before the first season starts instead of testing it first as it's obviously going to require further balancing. In my case, it's made my decision about which job I bring to The Feast rather easy.

On a whim, I looked up the original poster's most played PvP job recently on xivpvp and sure enough it's SMN. Which means his post is nothing more than an obvious, self-serving hoodwink made by the job that spams and abuses sprint on cooldown without penalty or concern all the livelong day.TP based jobs that have enliven and invigorate (RIP tanks) on cooldown have to make a tough choice between killing power and the speed needed to keep up with the sprint spamming mana jobs. A choice SMNs have never had to make, and I'd say he's deeply terrified of balance and competition. Not just from melees, but from TP based ranged jobs who face the same tough choice like BRDs and MCHs (who get a nice boost in kiting ability from this as well).

The sprint change is good and it's about time, frankly.

Melee dps should sprint anyway as is; it's not THAT big of a deal. It will be spamable though and more noob friendly.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

The good players will adjust

The bad players will scream nerf

As a caster I welcome this.

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Thank You! /dance

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

The good players will adjust

The bad players will scream nerf

As a caster I welcome this.

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The seasoned veterans who played for 2 years is going to notice this and say the same thing. Healers can't get away for long now. better pop that 1 impervious cooldown right off the bat to avoid getting zerged because they'll be right on you. Don't need to pop any tp regen skills for sprint? Sweet! I'm just gonna quick stun punch this one in the face, giving my buddies a chance to sprint all over here and we all go to town on em. next healer is nearby so they're next and we still have about 75% tp left, ZERGED.

I'd say lets wait to see how it turns out, but what people don't get is that their not going to wait till release to take advice to change weeks prior, they're gonna wait 3 months then change it. I'd be even more convinced if they actually showed a video of this (though they might have, I avoid live broadcasts like that) showing how this would all work out and what would be the most typical of strategies since apparently "their preferred strategy ended up being to leave the healer alone. Since the opposing DPS are the ones who try to defeat your team members, by killing them first you prevent your team from losing medals." Oh god I don't even need to explain it because I see it all too friggen clearly.

Me trying to heal one of my dps buddies just to have all eyes turned my direction to have me getting stunlocked and pounded on, then i cast purify and use my invincibility move barely surviving as the they use that too their advantage wrecking the nearby dps because I'm stuck standing their like a lump for 8 seconds and my other healer cant keep up the heals with 4 dps on 1 guy. Now that my shet is on cooldown I'm boned for 2 mins so the next time (I'm most likely marked) I'm being dragoon jump stunned (w/e) then sprint zerged. Probably be funny to watch though. -_- Either way this is like a premade party thing, which WILL be a thing so there's a short scenario.

I welcome this change, coming from a Caster PVP player, because it will increase speed of combat. Currently I use this and aetherial manipulation a lot to close the range gap when I'm trying to get casts off. Also, the few times I have played on my Warrior in Frontlines, I'm constantly using Equlibrium or Enliven to execute sprint. I shouldn't have to blow 2 other CDs to access Sprint.

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Originally Posted by Darwyn_Ulondarr

On a whim, I looked up the original poster's most played PvP job recently on xivpvp and sure enough it's SMN. Which means his post is nothing more than an obvious, self-serving hoodwink made by the job that spams and abuses sprint on cooldown without penalty or concern all the livelong day.TP based jobs that have enliven and invigorate (RIP tanks) on cooldown have to make a tough choice between killing power and the speed needed to keep up with the sprint spamming mana jobs. A choice SMNs have never had to make, and I'd say he's deeply terrified of balance and competition. Not just from melees, but from TP based ranged jobs who face the same tough choice like BRDs and MCHs (who get a nice boost in kiting ability from this as well).

The sprint change is good and it's about time, frankly.

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Right now I dont' have so much time to reply to all, but I take this a s a personal message.
Please try not to delegitimate other players opinion just trying to pick random information, look at my matches, I'm mostly a BLM, I'm trying to use more SMN those days but I use all caster/healer classes and time ago I played WAR too, I never hid this and since the first post I said that it worried me as caster/healer, because this change touch mostly them (not only).
So please stop the chain of hate supposing that I'm crying because "my OPest class" could have some trouble, this is like posting videos of a fail, I'm pretty sure all made something stupid, not for that is an idiot.

Anyway the fact that they reduced the Sprinting time to 10 sec makes it more viable to me, expecially for the Feast, because if even the melee remove your sprint with Weapon throw, reaches you, you CC him, he eventually purify your CC -> will make his sprint wear off too, so the gap wont' be so high.
But in FL I still think it could be painful considering the amount of players and how big is the map.

Most of classes already had 3x tp regen skills(invigoratete/enliven/icarus wins) so this change mostly affect paladins and drk. I do not see it as big change, more likely noob friendly change.