Replace Specialist Recipe Restrictions With a Bonus

Instead of a penalty against everyone.

Make recipes tagged with "specialist" always craftable, but reduce the material cost, or give bonus starting progress/quality to specialists who craft it.

And uncap desynth FFS.

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Originally Posted by Callback

Make recipes tagged with "specialist" always craftable, but reduce the material cost, or give bonus starting progress/quality to specialists who craft it.

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This wouldn't change anything as material and item prices would revolve around whatever a Specialist can make a profit from.

As an example, take an item that costs 3k to make and sells for 4k. If a Specialist can suddenly make that item for 2k (1k cheaper than a non-Specialist) they'd be able to sell the item for 3k instead of 4k and still make 1k profit. This would drive down the item's price to eventually make it non-profitable for anyone besides a Specialist.

Non-Specialists would still be pushed out of the market, and being able to craft the item would make little difference as it would be faster/cheaper to buy from the Specialist since it would cost the same amount (Or less) to buy the item as it would for the non-Specialist to craft it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

This wouldn't change anything as material and item prices would revolve around whatever a Specialist can make a profit from.

As an example, take an item that costs 3k to make and sells for 4k. If a Specialist can suddenly make that item for 2k (1k cheaper than a non-Specialist) they'd be able to sell the item for 3k instead of 4k and still make 1k profit. This would drive down the item's price to eventually make it non-profitable for anyone besides a Specialist.

Non-Specialists would still be pushed out of the market, and being able to craft the item would make little difference as it would be faster/cheaper to buy from the Specialist since it would cost the same amount (Or less) to buy the item as it would for the non-Specialist to craft it themselves.

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So? People who don't want to deal with the market could at least be self-sufficient. That's all most players really want. Specialists still get a tangible advantage without forcing people to make alts to cover all bases.

It's a good idea (and one that's been floated a number of times, sadly with no real acknowledgement from the powers that be). Remove Specialist-only flags, but give Specialists alternate recipes for the same items that have lower progress/quality requirements, lower material costs, greater yields, etc.

I don't know how optimistic I am that it will ever actually happen, because the devs seem to be comfortable doubling down on Specialist-only recipes, and because there are enough people enjoying their dumb pseudo-monopolies that player opinion on specialist-only recipes seems to be split, but nothing would make me happier than to see the two alts that I leveled into omnicrafters and kitted out with fully melded gear be rendered useless.

Uncap desynth YES YES YES, this arbitrary cap to desynth skills is just an annoying hassle with no reason in game balance.

And while OP's suggestion is good (as much as I detest the entire specialist system to begin with) and I support it, another suggestion would be to simply implement additional specializations to become available, let's say for 500 red scrips or such (instead of just switching for 480).

That way those of us who want to become omni-specialists can do so with enough time and gil involved, everyone else can stay happy with their 3 specializations.

I think they should make crafting more restrictive myself. I'd have been fine with a single specialisation and even more focus on recipes with it.

/shrug

I believe that for a high price of red scripts preferably 500 to 600, you should be allowed to unlock an additional specialization after 3. That is a solid alternative that acts as a solid balance between the establishments wants, and the player wants by adding a 2 week time sink in between each additional specialization.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I believe that for a high price of red scripts preferably 500 to 600, you should be allowed to unlock an additional specialization after 3. That is a solid alternative that acts as a solid balance between the establishments wants, and the player wants by adding a 2 week time sink in between each additional specialization.

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You might as well not have specialization at this point.

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Originally Posted by TheFolant

I think they should make crafting more restrictive myself. I'd have been fine with a single specialisation and even more focus on recipes with it.

/shrug

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Ditto. Completely disagree with OP's suggestion here.

disagree.
i am a omni mastercrafter and i need say i am happy that the spcialist recipe are mostly just boring relic stuff which are not really needed, just a small gil machine ^^ only which a bit interessting for me is CUL for one nice Crit food, anyway because of the that i didnt make and specialist yet will wait to 3.2 to see may gets more intressting recipe of specialists.
well when you are able to make the 1 star HQ you shouldnt really worry about the price of the relic stuff they cost on my server just 250k each in HQ which are pretty cheap in my eyes, well and i think this system also nice to let diffrent mastercrafters work together and support each other in crafts.
anyway once the ppl are done with the relics nobody will buy this stuff anyway, just let the time pass.

regards Small Hobbit =)

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

You might as well not have specialization at this point.

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Specialization was a mistake in the first place, so... yes?

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Originally Posted by TheFolant

I think they should make crafting more restrictive myself. I'd have been fine with a single specialisation and even more focus on recipes with it.

/shrug

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I think they should make combat more restrictive. I'd be fine with a single class per character, and even more focus on individualized builds within that class so you don't occupy the same niche as some others even within that choice.

Just uncap how many "specialist" stones you can have. The whole system is garbage of the highest tier, instead of pushing more into it they need to just let this terrible idea die in a fire.

The system idea is nice, too bad they realized along the way they can screw everyone with some extra things thrown on it... now it doesn't benefit that lazy guy who couldn't be bothered to level more than one, and it certainly don't benefit anyone else. Bad skills, bad restriction, bad limitation, bad idea... bad everything.

Please, just uncap the stone limit at the least.

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Originally Posted by Callback

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Here's a theme song for you. :D

I don't agree with your view of not being able to be a specialist in every DoH discipline as being a de facto penalty. The very nature of the term 'specialist' suggests that there will be other areas in which one is not as proficient in as the specialization. Is it also a penalty when you can't load up all the cross-class skills that you'd like to use? On LTW for instance, I often make do without Manipulation although I would very much like to have it loaded. I find my other skills more a necessity though so I just use MM1 instead. So..penalty? No. Limitation? Yes. And most importantly: I can still achieve what I need to without it. If there are items in one specialist category you really want, save up some red scrips and buy another Soul of the Crafter so that once you have those, you can switch over to what you really want to specialize in. Planning and preparation can get you what you want.

And uncapped desynth? It's already plenty easy to get BC3s and any other valuable materia breaking down gear that is a 100% desynth chance. But we have Tinker's Calm and Bacon Broth for a reason if you want to desynth higher level items. And they're cheap. Those buffs bring i160 items close to (if not right at) 100%. I personally just deal with the 85% base rate at 180 desynth skill because I get plenty of those drops now that other players usually pass on them. Want to desynth i185 items as well? Well, there should be some risk involved in desynthing the top gear available for desynthesis.

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Originally Posted by RojGardoth

And uncapped desynth? It's already plenty easy to get BC3s and any other valuable materia breaking down gear that is a 100% desynth chance. But we have Tinker's Calm and Bacon Broth for a reason if you want to desynth higher level items. And they're cheap. Those buffs bring i160 items close to (if not right at) 100%. I personally just deal with the 85% base rate at 180 desynth skill because I get plenty of those drops now that other players usually pass on them. Want to desynth i185 items as well? Well, there should be some risk involved in desynthing the top gear available for desynthesis.

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By uncap I meant the 560 total limit, not the 180 per class.

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Originally Posted by RojGardoth

On LTW for instance, I often make do without Manipulation although I would very much like to have it loaded. I find my other skills more a necessity though so I just use MM1 instead. So..penalty? No. Limitation? Yes.

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Surely you realize that you have absolutely no business comparing cross-class skills which can be swapped around as many times as you'd like with absolutely no penalty and can easily be customized exactly as you'd like them for every single craft that you do, to Crafting Souls which take more than a week of real-time to swap, can only be swapped one at a time, and consume a resource to do so that would otherwise be used to acquire important gear and crafting materials.

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Originally Posted by Callback

So? People who don't want to deal with the market could at least be self-sufficient. That's all most players really want. Specialists still get a tangible advantage without forcing people to make alts to cover all bases.

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I would prefer to be self sufficient as well, but I highly doubt "most players" feel the same way, especially considering the amount of work it requires. Your idea would be a good one, but ONLY if you don't consider the impact it would have on the market.

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Originally Posted by Callback

Specialization was a mistake in the first place, so... yes?

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Specialization wasn't exactly a mistake, it just should never have spilled over to recipes and should have stuck with only providing the new skills. Yes, there are issues with the skills themselves but I'd rather not type an entire paragraph about it again.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Surely you realize that you have absolutely no business comparing cross-class skills...to Crafting Souls

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I think you're deliberately missing my overall point and zeroing in on an imperfect analogy (as they are all apt to be). Good tactics for points I guess but try going back and clipping the rest of that paragraph of mine that you're quoting from into your post. Not so harebrained when you give it context I'd say. You may disagree with me but just stick with that and maybe offer your opinion, but there's no reason to misrepresent me. We all know what Souls cost and what Red Scrip Tokens can buy.

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Originally Posted by Callback

By uncap I meant the 560 total limit, not the 180 per class.

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Oh, well then that's even worse then :D

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Originally Posted by Callback

Specialization was a mistake in the first place, so... yes?

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Might as well remove crafting then, and just let everyone buy everything crafting currently provides with tokens.

Since we're all about self sufficiency here.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Since we're all about self sufficiency here.

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Self sufficiency means being able to do it one's self. Not, remove an undesirable way to do something to be self sufficient.
The current specialist system prevents self sufficiency, which is the biggest problem with it.