Avoiding AOE attacks - taking damage when outside of the AOE

Hi All,

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I'm sure it has at some point. Google has only come up with very general answers but I am after some specific information from people currently playing the game.

My husband and I both play and are having a lot of difficulty with aoe attacks. Even when we are well out of the area by the time the cast bar is full we still seem to be taking damage.

We're both fairly seasoned MMO players so we are use to handling aoe's and the need for quick response times but are finding it difficult to come up with a solution when playing FFXIV.

We are based in Australia and understand this increases ping but to date that hasn't been a massive problem in other games.

So is there a special technique to managing aoe's in FFXIV? At this point we are both sticking to ranged classes as melee and tank classes are not playable for us due to this.

Back when the lag was worse than it is now, people suggested using an ability as soon as you're out of the AoE. This forces the game to update your position whereas with the lag and the natural delay between ticks on sending the server your info can make you feel like you're gettin hit with aoe's you shouldn't be because the game still thinks you're there.

Check your ping to see what kind of delay your looking at. Also recently the servers are having some pretty bad rubber banding during peak hours. Hell I have 100ms ping to the servers and at times my character is allover the place due to packets dropping left and right.

well australia to the middle of canada will likely have some amount of latency issues, a vpn like wtfast might route you a better way possibly but maybe not

the other issue is this game has kind of wonky low polling rate for determining position and facing. Supposedly jumping will force it to refresh your position
basically you have to get out of aoe stuff or face away from petrifaction or whatever it is long before it actually casts or your at the mercy of the server ticks

I'll just leave this here, back from before the first "fix." Snarky commentary was mocking people claiming there isn't lag.
http://i.imgur.com/oLZp8hl.gif

Basically, if you're like me and have issues, you need to pre-dodge. Learn mechanics and know to predict what's coming next.

You're playing on the EU datacenter? I'd suggest moving to Tonberry, it's the unofficial oceanic server on the JP datacenter - it's mostly an English speaking server, however the DF is largely JP. Also you should think about using WTFast or Pingzapper. You'll see crazy improvements with these changes.

I was raiding AS3 on Sarg (NA) at around 270 ping - so it's doable at high latency. It just means you have to memorize everything and time it near perfect to not be a burden on your team. When I moved to Tonberry I was cut down to around 180ish ping. This is from NW TAS.

Basically depending on your lag, once that cast bar reaches 75% on your screen the damage has already been calculated server side. Be out before then.

Until you figure out a real fix, I've read that when you change movement direction, the server auto updates your location. So, try running out of the AOE and then to the side for a step.

Also it's a long way to the EU data center from you, definately look into that.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'll just leave this here, back from before the first "fix." Snarky commentary was mocking people claiming there isn't lag.
http://i.imgur.com/oLZp8hl.gif

Basically, if you're like me and have issues, you need to pre-dodge. Learn mechanics and know to predict what's coming next.

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This exact thing happened to me yesterday and I was gobsmacked thinking WTF? I was no where near it :)

Edited for spelling

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Originally Posted by Pence

You're playing on the EU datacenter? I'd suggest moving to Tonberry, it's the unofficial oceanic server on the JP datacenter - it's mostly an English speaking server, however the DF is largely JP. Also you should think about using WTFast or Pingzapper. You'll see crazy improvements with these changes.

I was raiding AS3 on Sarg (NA) at around 270 ping - so it's doable at high latency. It just means you have to memorize everything and time it near perfect to not be a burden on your team. When I moved to Tonberry I was cut down to around 180ish ping. This is from NW TAS.

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Thank you we will take this on board. I have a legacy character on Ragnarok so we wanted to stay there but may have to rethink at some point :)

A related gripe about this, I wish Squeenix would sync the casting animations with the cast time. It's like what Ulan said, getting damaged when you're well out of the area. But it's also not taking any damage at all even though, cosmetically, you've taken the full brunt of it as well. It's a real head scratcher why they do AoE like that. :\

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'll just leave this here, back from before the first "fix." Snarky commentary was mocking people claiming there isn't lag.
http://i.imgur.com/oLZp8hl.gif

Basically, if you're like me and have issues, you need to pre-dodge. Learn mechanics and know to predict what's coming next.

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omg I wish I had had that back then when I was telling people that I was way out of the aoe and getting hit nonetheless EXACTLY at Titan Ex , all insulting me for not being able to dodge.. omg finally a video to show people that it is exactly what is happening ...FINALLY !!!

and yes, the only way to dodge is pre-dodge, or, better said, move before anything happens on your screen, otherwise you might as well stop trying those.

As for WFast, for my own person situation, it didnt help whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Schmoe

A related gripe about this, I wish Squeenix would sync the casting animations with the cast time. It's like what Ulan said, getting damaged when you're well out of the area. But it's also not taking any damage at all even though, cosmetically, you've taken the full brunt of it as well. It's a real head scratcher why they do AoE like that. :\

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What's funny about this, is it only happens for certain attacks. I think it might have something to do with being a "unique" AoE that is affected by position/movement/etc. There have been times where I literally evade an attack at the very last second.

The game gives you time to dodge until the enemy's cast bar get past 80% or something. If you're slower than that you'll get hit no matter what.

If you have bad latency between your system and the server, it would be worse.

and yeah... playing on an EU server from Australia is not a good idea.

it is most likely ping but I will mention this just in case your quite new to the game. The orange telegraphed aoes (can be different colours and effects in certain bosses) snapshot your position at the moment they disappear so you still get hit despite the fact you have moved well away from the animation itself

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Originally Posted by Cathelas

Back when the lag was worse than it is now, people suggested using an ability as soon as you're out of the AoE. This forces the game to update your position whereas with the lag and the natural delay between ticks on sending the server your info can make you feel like you're gettin hit with aoe's you shouldn't be because the game still thinks you're there.

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so thats why I sometimes get hit and sometimes not o-o

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'll just leave this here, back from before the first "fix." Snarky commentary was mocking people claiming there isn't lag.
http://i.imgur.com/oLZp8hl.gif

Basically, if you're like me and have issues, you need to pre-dodge. Learn mechanics and know to predict what's coming next.

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This ... happened in every Run and I swore to myself, I'm not going to run any of Titan Trials anymore after I have done the Extreme Version of it. (I did it so ya...)

I know that feeling very well when Content is going to punish you during lag times.

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Originally Posted by UlanX

Thank you we will take this on board. I have a legacy character on Ragnarok so we wanted to stay there but may have to rethink at some point :)

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You can transfer legacy characters now to any server. It's about $20 AUD.

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Originally Posted by UlanX

So is there a special technique to managing aoe's in FFXIV?

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I also play from Australia. My standard ping is 270 to the NA servers. I used to have some extreme difficulty being out of markers on time. Since i started I've pretty much had to be moving before a marker got placed in order to evade it.

Ping spikes were actually the source of the issue more than the actual latency itself. It never stayed stable at 270. In a 10 second period, it could and often did fluctuate from as low as 230 to upwards of 500.

For me, the solution was WTFast. Not only did my Mudras activate properly every time, i was also able to reliably dodge AoEs i struggled with previously.
On WTFast my ping is now a rocksolid 240 (not much of an improvement over the average 270 before), however it never spikes or deviates by more than 1 - 3 in either direction.

There are other services that offer a similar experience, but personally, WTFast is working extremely well for me.
I'd recommend downloading it and trying the $2 one off payment (There's a free option too, but ads, bleh) for a couple days of subscription access. If it doesn't work for you, just delete it and move on lol.

Just as an aside on this, the video here has a good explanation of lag and rubber-banding. I cut past all the fluff at the beginning of the episode right to where he actually starts talking about the important stuff. Just a good bit of info for anyone wondering about why this all actually happens:
MMO Combat, The FIGHT Against Lag! - Digressing and Sidequesting

In the same vein as using an ability as soon as you're done moving to force the server to refresh your position, I heard that moving in an L shape does the same thing. I started doing the same thing and I think it helped, especially in Titan ex. Now my lag isn't as bad but it's a habit I picked up.

In the last live letter, they said the new Sephirot battle was designed by the same guy that designed Titan. Unforgiving moves, hardware/ping checks, and too many different attacks to memorize their order in under 100 runs, please look forward to it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3547884

Titan EX back then toom me 500 runs soooo i will look forward to it lol

My pet peeve is the Chimera in Cutter's Cry, when playing melee DPS. Dragon's Voice I'm never hit by, in melee range. Ram's Voice I have literally never been able to avoid, even when playing a Ninja and running directly away from boss as soon as the cast time bar shows. I'll get an ice damage animation on my character while I'm nowhere near the ice patch around him.

That and the occasional bomb AEs that one-shot me while I'm quite sure I was not standing in the AE range.

It may or may not help but something often forgotten is that latency is often many things.

It's quite well known that on average console gamers experience more latency than pc gamers and this largely comes down to TV sets and what's known as input lag. affects pc gamers as well when they hook or there high end graphics card to there 50" flat screen. The input lag of tv sets can vary from nothing to as high as 241ms on some tvs. maybe higher but 241 is the worst I've seen. some of the cheaper pc monitors can also suffer from this but to a lesser degree as typically monitors don't do much image processing where as tv sets do, with all there ultra black filters , image enhancers and tons of other junk.

for offline games these things often don't make a much noticeable difference for the average person, a 200ms latency would still be "playable" to most people. online though it becomes much more noticeable. if you're playing xiv with an internet latency of 200ms for example and then add the tv input lag on top of that, the result is that you're lagging by almost half a second. a lot of newer TV's have game modes which turn off some of the image processing and reduce the latency but by how much is heavily variable.

Whether this info is of any to use to you may depend on what yo use to play and your set up. but has been something a fair few of my friends learnt about the hard way after forking out for this "amazing deal" on a tv set.

In Regards to the AOE's though. most encounters are so heavily scripted and highly predictable that it becomes quite easy to "dodge" aoe's sometimes 2-3 steps or moves ahead of a boss actually using them. freshest example in my head would be ravanna from trials today. the aoe attacks that hit the floor all follow a preset pattern, so it's easy to know when the cross aoes patterns are about to come up. and that is always followed by a donut shaped aoe. knowing this i'm often standing in the centre of the arena 3-5 seconds before the donut even starts to come up and thus I've already dodged it. I tend to do this out of habit though and not as a response to lag issues it's just I tend to play proactive and less reactive.

targeted aoe's can be a bit trickier but there's quite a few of those that are predictable as well. for example some will always target a healer or ranged others will always target a specific number on the hate list, some are more random but these ones often have massive time windows to dodge.

Titan traumatized me with the oversea connection, dodging landslide and weight of the land was always met with mild panic each time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'll just leave this here, back from before the first "fix." Snarky commentary was mocking people claiming there isn't lag.
http://i.imgur.com/oLZp8hl.gif

Basically, if you're like me and have issues, you need to pre-dodge. Learn mechanics and know to predict what's coming next.

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Yeah, this is really unacceptable. I don't know how many times I am out of the stuff and it still hits me.

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Originally Posted by UlanX

Hi All,

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I'm sure it has at some point. Google has only come up with very general answers but I am after some specific information from people currently playing the game.

My husband and I both play and are having a lot of difficulty with aoe attacks. Even when we are well out of the area by the time the cast bar is full we still seem to be taking damage.

We're both fairly seasoned MMO players so we are use to handling aoe's and the need for quick response times but are finding it difficult to come up with a solution when playing FFXIV.

We are based in Australia and understand this increases ping but to date that hasn't been a massive problem in other games.

So is there a special technique to managing aoe's in FFXIV? At this point we are both sticking to ranged classes as melee and tank classes are not playable for us due to this.

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Hi,

I'm not an expert, and like anyone else I'm only telling what I've experienced, but I can say with most certainty that you are not the only one experiencing AoE Telegraph inaccuration.

Players all over have been complaining about how they were hit while being (well) out of the AoE Telegraph. When asked, they mentioned that they were on PS3, PS4, and PC, on every and all data center, slow and fast connections.

This issue/timelag does not only incur AoE Telegraphs.

It also goes for instance, pressing a skill, it showing that it is being pressed, but not executes, making a tank fall, cause the heal arrived too late, where it actually was on time.

Or a PLD with only 1 HP left, that uses Hallowed Ground, and falls because of being hit at the moment the Hallowed Ground animation is done.

Or being inflicted with Petrification by either Echidna or Belladonna, while having your back turned at them for at least a second long.
(Seen and experienced numerous times where lots of players were Petrified at the same time by Echidna while all were turned away).

I do not know about others, but for me the inaccuracy became somewhat worse after 3.1 was installed. Eitherway, I think that the servers are at fault.

Just as others have said, it's best to learn WHEN, AoEs are executed. And hope that SE will come with a more definitive solution.

as an Indonesian player playing on NA server I feel you on the high latency thingy ;__;
as suggested somewhere above, moving to JP data center will likely cut down your ping for pretty good amount...
Or you can try using latency reducer program such as Battleping and WTFast. I use WTFast and it's working for me :D

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Originally Posted by Nihility

well australia to the middle of canada will likely have some amount of latency issues, a vpn like wtfast might route you a better way possibly but maybe not

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doesnt help australia has really horrible internet speeds lol last i looked we were ranked 50-60 in the world for internet speed lol

I often find that "jumping" away from an AoE can help, rather than just running. Even with a seemingly good ping of 90ms I still get the odd AoE smacking me when I'm nowhere near & moved immediately I saw the cast bar appear.

Just thought I'd add my two cents, being an Aussie with a native ping of 40 or so (Telstra mobile network) a friend and I use Battleping which dropped me from 300ms to 200ms to the NA Gilgamesh server, if you're like us and have ties to your server, transfering to a JP server is tough, but I found this fix to work. The game is notorious for having sloppy movemet detection, but once you get under 250ms or less it becomes very noticable the difference a VPN can make!

True but as we don't pvp much it really hasn't been a significant issue even at end game/dungeons etc in other MMO's. I think you get use to playing with a higher ping and have quicker reaction times to compensate but this just seems unmanageable in some instances. It would be hard to argue that a company like Square Enix wouldn't be aware that they would have a large fan base around the world and therefore players connecting from around the world on a variety of internet connections. You would therefore think in planning and developing a game that this would be taken into consideration when designing content.

Content can be punishing without it having to be unplayable.

Still I wait for the day we eventually get decent internet here and it doesn't take me six hours to download one game...

Thanks for the info. One of our biggest reservations is that we have found a decent FC, however we won't be doing anyone any benefit if we can't participate in end game content. I'm reluctant to pay for additional services such as Battleping on top of our subs because the currency conversion is just crap at the moment (bring back the days of a strong Aussie dollar!). Still it may be an option so thanks for the info!

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Originally Posted by UlanX

One of our biggest reservations is that we have found a decent FC, however we won't be doing anyone any benefit if we can't participate in end game content.

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There's no content you can not clear on 270ms. You just need to understand the mechanics.

I don't believe I stated my ping was 270ms. It is fluctuating between 380ms and 400ms on the Euro server.

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Originally Posted by jack891

it is most likely ping but I will mention this just in case your quite new to the game. The orange telegraphed aoes (can be different colours and effects in certain bosses) snapshot your position at the moment they disappear so you still get hit despite the fact you have moved well away from the animation itself

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Generally speaking run out of the marker and jump, except for the final phase of Titan HM - well, actually, still do this if you can, but beware jumping off the platform accidentally... The jump forces an immediate position check, otherwise you're at the mercy of the polling interval on position checks, and the telegraphs use the position the server has for you at the moment they end, so you could have moved out of the area and there is still a small margin of time where the server believes you to be in the AoE because of the 'old' position check. If the next check doesn't happen before the AoE is processed, you're gonna get hit. But if you jump as soon as you exit the marker, you force an instant position check without using a GCD or oGCD ability.