So nobody is worried that we might cause [spoilers]

So nobody is worried that the warrior of light and, by extension, Hydaelyn are becoming too strong and might trigger what is referred to as The Flood of Light?

That I am aware of, it was only mentioned in Final Fantasy 3 as the disaster that nearly ended the world a millennium(?) before the game started because the forces of light had become too strong.

To prevent this, Warrior of Darkness were called forth to stop it in FF3.
What did we get to see in the previous patch? Introduction to the Warriors of Darkness.

I know that darkness is still pretty dang prevalent in the world as of patch 3.15, but I believe that this event will come to pass in the future. Well... almost come to pass, since the Warriors of Darkness are awake and derping it up in Eorzea.

It would certainly make for impressive story, that is for sure.

What do you guys think?

Well considering we know so little about these so-called 'Warriors of Darkness' other than Elidibus's sanctimonious and hypocritical ramblings about 'balance', I wouldn't worry about that too much. If that really was a danger, they would have been introduced into the story almost immediately to counteract us, but they weren't - only being brought in as the Ascian's 'last resort' after we started slaying them for good - nothing to do with 'light being more powerful', but out of desperation. The Ascians are now on the back foot, and they don't like it.

Hells, Evil!Derplander and his party.... for all their blustering... don't appear as strong as you might think. They only managed to get the drop on Alphinaud, Y'shtola and Krile because the later underestimated them - we didn't actually get to see how we would fare against them (because stupid

Thancred showing up and flashing his ego around as usual :p

), but the fact they backed off quickly and teleported away after MrEgo appeared shows they're not as powerful as they make themselves out to be. Even Krile dismissively and cynically says "Warriors of Darkness? Seriously?" when they introduce themselves, suggesting that their very concept actually does not have past precedent (unlike the Warriors of Light), so again I wouldn't be worried about them too much.

The Flood of Light was a problem in III due to the two worlds, the World of Light and the World of Darkness, needing equilibrium. Too far in the opposite direction and it summoned the Cloud of Darkness, a manifestation of emptiness.

While it's certainly a possibility, aside from Nameless Ascian simply saying "your world" instead of name-dropping the plane the Warriors of Darkness are from, there are scant few hints that there's a "World of Darkness" (well, besides the one at the end of the Crystal Tower story) that is in opposition to our World of Light. It's a possibility I'm aware of but not something I'm willing to bet on until we get more information.

It was also hinted that Yoshida asked us if we wanted sky or sea for 3.0. We got sky. Any relevance to a "flood" could make 4.0's theme "sea" based, but that's just me guessing.

Enkidoh and Cilia make good statements, not enough on the table to draw conclusions. But throwing theories out there is fun. :D
But now the story opens itself up even more as I am reminded that the notion of "other worlds (stars)" is coming into the picture. Again, I doubt they will outright give us another world as a new area, but the notion for story telling is quite interesting.
Story wise, the only thing I truly hope they don't do is time travel and the like, it would be needlessly convoluted.

The Warriors of Darkness just gave us a quick "Hey, we are your sworn enemies and want you dead, but not now, so... bye!". A direct clash with them is gonna happen and when that happens it would be right for the entirety of the realm to feel it, give our fight with them much more... oomph. Perhaps something will happen when/if we beat them... or if they beat us.

Then we have the Gerun Oracles. If it follows FFXII; so some clod (or clods) are dictating how pivotal moments in history are gonna go down to achieve a "desired end" or prevent an "end in ruin".
Alright, who is this pretentious, "immortal" idiot, and where is he? He needs a beating.

All these powerful creatures coming after us time and time again, and with every victory we, and by extension Hydaelyn, get stronger. Its going to reach a breaking point where our strength is going to be too much and I am going to love every moment of it.

Open for discussion!

Technically, a Flood of Light is what destroyed Allag. Xande and Dalamud just finished the job. It's a messy bit of lore that superficially seems to contradict what that whole plotline was trying to say about goodness and technology, but with the way things are going lately it kinda makes me wonder if everything in the 2.X-3.X arc is us being set up for a "nice job breaking it, hero" moment of epic proportions.

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Originally Posted by Erudito

Then we have the Gerun Oracles. If it follows FFXII; so some clod (or clods) are dictating how pivotal moments in history are gonna go down to achieve a "desired end" or prevent an "end in ruin".
Alright, who is this pretentious, "immortal" idiot, and where is he? He needs a beating.

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My current best guess is that it's Zodiark / the Ascians.

The Echo, the "power to overcome," allows us to overcome Zodiark's curse and rewrite fate. The Ascians also have it, but use it to the opposite end - keeping fate on course. There seems to be a big problem with Hydaelyn's actions; she seems to be violating causality and fate by allowing our existence, while we seem to be the only one the Ascians pay any real attention to. Ol' Elidibus also seems intent on getting Urianger to buy into his "this was all written" philosophy, but the latter is intent on fighting "our fate to perish."

Well, time will tell the big answers.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Ol' Elidibus also seems intent on getting Urianger to buy into his "this was all written" philosophy, but the latter is intent on fighting "our fate to perish."

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And I still say you have it backwards: Eldibus is trying to show Urianger that there's a fate in need of fighting, not that he should give in and accept destiny. It's of course tempting to believe that we're already on the "fighting fate" side, because JRPG heroes usually are, but I don't think we have any tangible indicator of that, yet.

As for me, I'm presently inclined to think of events like the Ultima Weapon fight as a sign that Hydaelyn is ensuring our destiny by directly intervening in situations that jeopardize Her plans for us. "Destiny" is ultimately just a conceit used to describe the unseen authorial intent behind the universe. The problem is figuring out who's writing what.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

And I still say you have it backwards: Eldibus is trying to show Urianger that there's a fate in need of fighting, not that he should give in and accept destiny. It's of course tempting to believe that we're already on the "fighting fate" side, because JRPG heroes usually are, but I don't think we have any tangible indicator of that, yet.

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Eludibus can hardly count for all Asian ideals. Nebralius was trying to send EVERYTHING back to oblivion, Zodiark included. And Lahabrea by the time of his demise seemed hell bent of destroying us, plans and consequences be damned.

I still champion the idea that Elidibus is on his own scheme and that the Ascians are a lose coalition at best that (occasionally) share the same end goal. But they are hardly a unified front.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

And I still say you have it backwards: Eldibus is trying to show Urianger that there's a fate in need of fighting, not that he should give in and accept destiny.

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I agree with Fenral, I still say it's the Ascians who fight fate while those who serve the Light unintentionally ensure the continued path.

Allow me to step out of in-game defense here for a moment and discuss a meta topic.
Ascians seek chaos. What does chaos tend to represent, even outside of D&D in Japanese games? Freedom of choice an independent action, which Elidibus is all for - telling Nabriales that they all serve, in their own way. It is by exploiting the Spoken races and their natural tendency towards chaos (Ramuh says darkness, but the implication is the same, darkness causing chaos) that they are able to pursue their goals. I just find it a bit hard to see them flipping to the opposite end of this spectrum.
Respectively, we have an example with Thordan of Light being used to represent the ultimate order.

Also, I'm with Kaiser. We know that all of the Ascians do not share the same methods and disagreements seem somewhat frequent in how events should proceed, which was the entire point of the Nabriales and Elidibus scene in 2.1. What we don't know is how united they are other than being under a banner of the same overall goal. As an extreme example for comparison, you can equally say Thordan and the WoL can be placed under a banner of wanting to banish darkness and creating a world of light. Seems a bit extreme when you put it that way. It's just too vague to really make assumptions that they are all in perfect harmony, unison, and agreement on all matters about everything just because they work for the same master. In fact, we straight up have evidence implying otherwise.

While I suspect a flood of Light could happen, and as pointed out the way the Allag empire stagnated seem to fit a something like overly dominant Light. I don't think there is a very high risk of that happening anytime soon though. Hydaelyn has been growing progressively weakened for thousands of years. Even with the changes we have made recently I think its a long way from totally turning everything around.

I think the Ascians calling on the Warriors of Darkness is more in response of losing their sense of control over us. I suspect that prior to this the Ascians have rather underestimated the WoL and seen them more as just another pawn. We would be far from the first WoL they would have dealt with. I think they are more actively trying to mitigate the fact their control over what's is going on is slipping as we get too powerful to handle.

I do think that balance is an aspect of FF14's story but I don't think the WoL is necessarily opposed to balance or darkness conceptually. Though it hasn't been dealt with in the MSQ, the concept of finding balance with darkness does pop up in job quests, the DRK obviously but also MNK touches on it with its sects of Light and Shadow. I suspect balance will be something that will become an important factor in the story eventually.

Given Matoyas lore about the eye. I've been assuming that things like Warriors of light and darkness were much more stronger in the past than in the present. Given that everything up to now has filled the Warrior of Light with, determination. We have simply become much more powerful than we are supposed to be. The fact we overcame Midgard's little seal by our own will and conviction, slew primals, thwarted their plans and delaying the inevitable and making friends with a lot of folks. The Ascian didn't just call for a warrior of darkness, he brought a whole party of them to deal with one warrior of light.

With the eye and other similar objects/people being so much more powerful in those earlier ages. We are likely bucking the trend by becoming as powerful or more so in an age where we shouldn't. That is my theory as to what kind of balance he might be refereeing to. When the time comes we might be strong enough to prevent the normal cycle of events and possible (inevitable) outcome read in that book.

Also what was that line he said about lahabreas tactics in trying to invoke or hasten some kind of event? It was almost like he knew what they were trying to do would eventually fail.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

And I still say you have it backwards: Eldibus is trying to show Urianger that there's a fate in need of fighting, not that he should give in and accept destiny. It's of course tempting to believe that we're already on the "fighting fate" side, because JRPG heroes usually are, but I don't think we have any tangible indicator of that, yet.

As for me, I'm presently inclined to think of events like the Ultima Weapon fight as a sign that Hydaelyn is ensuring our destiny by directly intervening in situations that jeopardize Her plans for us. "Destiny" is ultimately just a conceit used to describe the unseen authorial intent behind the universe. The problem is figuring out who's writing what.

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Until we really get more from Elidibus and Urianger, it's hard to say what exactly is in The Gerun Oracles beyond that it foretells fate and Elidibus believes it's correct. The full quote of Urianger's small talk, though is:

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Originally Posted by Urianger

Tataru hath told me all. Thou hast prevailed over the Ascians, and so avenged Moenbryda. "Knowledge dictates expectation, and expectation colors perception." On occasion, truth may issue from the mouths of fiends and foes. Our knowledge is dwarfed by our ignorance, and what wisdom we possess hath been distorted by the passage of time. But no matter how distorted our wisdom becometh, may it never be forgot that man is the master of his own destiny. The final verse of the Divine Chronicles fortelleth the destruction of the world. But if it is our fate to perish, so too is it our fate to fight. So let us fight on, as ever we have, in the hopes that the dawn's light will shine again and forevermore.

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Doesn't sound to me like he's intent on following Hydaelyn's spelled-out doom. Rather, combined with this year's page from Louisoix's journal, it seems to me that Zodiark cast a curse of doom on Hydaelyn out of hatred for some reason, which is the reason for the repeated Calamities that are trying to end the world - and each time she rebuffs the curse (though Echo users), it weakens her, which is the reason behind the gradual weakening of her blessing through the ages. Doubtless whenever she performs a divine intervention she's ensuring the path she wants us to follow - but if Zodiark's curse is the inevitable doom of the world, and Hydaelyn's aim is to delay or prevent that... I'll go with the goddess who doesn't want me to die.

The problem then becomes the fact that, despite her desire to let us live, she's shackling us (at least us, the Warrior of Light) to her own written fate, making Hydaelyn kind of hypocritical. This is the problem with dealing with gods - they all have their own objective and no qualms manipulating whoever they need to achieve that objective. We are Hydaelyn's "beloved daughter/son," but despite that we're functionally little more than a piece in her game against Zodiark. An important piece, but just a piece nonetheless.

... of course, if man is the master of his own destiny, and he declares his fate is to challenge his fate, can such a thing as fate be said to exist? Clearly Elidibus thinks so, pulling out his book of foretold fate to tell Urianger this is what our fates are, and with your preordained fate known you can either A) play your part or B) rebel against it. As noted above in his own dialogue, Urianger seems intent on deciding his own destiny at least. If it's our fate to die then it's our fate to fight that death... so is there any rebellion to be made?

Gah, all this talk of fate is getting me confuzzled. I'm gonna go do a FATE to get my thoughts in order.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The problem then becomes the fact that, despite her desire to let us live, she's shackling us (at least us, the Warrior of Light) to her own written fate, making Hydaelyn kind of hypocritical. This is the problem with dealing with gods - they all have their own objective and no qualms manipulating whoever they need to achieve that objective. We are Hydaelyn's "beloved daughter/son," but despite that we're functionally little more than a piece in her game against Zodiark. An important piece, but just a piece nonetheless.

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I think this can be assumed either way, no matter which side of the equation is dealing with "fate." We are a tool, Her weapon against the darkness. A beloved weapon, a weapon to keep oiled and sharp, but still one tool of many.

I believe everyone, including our character, knows it. So, even if Hydaelyn is fighting for freedom and against some horrible prophecized fate, so to speak, we are still bound to our fate of servitude, aiding her. Which comes with some perks, yes, but it takes its toll.

I'm not worried because the script is surely written in our favor anyway.

Interesting theory, and it actually ties in well with what we've seen so far. In particular the final cutscene with Thordan after you defeat him - he looks up at the WoL and asks "who - what are you?!", and for a brief moment we see him/ her in a very sinister light that seems to portend something rather ominous. And you do have to wonder - what are they becoming to be able to take down enemies so powerful? Where does it stop?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Until we really get more from Elidibus and Urianger, it's hard to say what exactly is in The Gerun Oracles beyond that it foretells fate and Elidibus believes it's correct.

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He believes it is "correct," not that it is "right." It's simply a matter of how you take the rest of what he says. If "all of this has been ordained," then that means that nothing we've done so far has actually run counter to the prophesied end. All of the "fate fighting" we think we've been doing has actually been part of the plan all along, moving us ever closer to the precipice.

Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

He believes it is "correct," not that it is "right." It's simply a matter of how you take the rest of what he says. If "all of this has been ordained," then that means that nothing we've done so far has actually run counter to the prophesied end. All of the "fate fighting" we think we've been doing has actually been part of the plan all along, moving us ever closer to the precipice.

Maybe.

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Elidibus actually hasn't given his thoughts on whether the Gerun Oracles is right or not. All he says is that...

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Originally Posted by Elidibus

It is a truth long forgotten - a tale of the beginning, and of the path we have been set upon. Our fates were ordained long ago, Archon. The Garleans are no exepction. Nor the Triad. You know what must be done.

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Not really sure how to take this beyond Elidibus saying, paraphrased, "See? Our fates are spelled out, it's all here in this book. Everything that has happened and will happen... it was all written. You know your part now - all there is to do is go play it."

... then again, knowledge dictates expectation, and expectation colors perception, so knowing that JRPGs usually have the heroes challenging a foretold fate I'm pretty inclined to see it that way. Elidibus could be telling Urianger how to challenge Hydaelyn's written fate... er, the fate Hydaelyn writ for us... but if she's the benevolent, all-loving goddess we've been led to believe, we have little reason to rebel against her.

Again, it raises the problem of Hydaelyn's blessing protecting us vs. Zodiark's curse being our doom; either way we're just a puny mortal without control over our fate. But hey, that's okay! I guess! (Since, y'know, the Allagans' lack of spirituality contributed to their societal collapse...)

Perhaps nothing we've done has challenged what's written in the Oracles. Perhaps even trying is an exercise in futility. Even so...

Random thought I had: Elidibus is a Lucifer-figure. Effectively saying 'Your all-loving god is actually bad'...Yeah. This would tie into my theory that the Ascians are following 'their' version of events, but its not the full story or even the 'only' version of events. I'm getting the impression that Elidibus wants us to learn the truth on his terms, so that he can manipulate us into the line of thinking he wants.

This would also explain the implication that Alisaie in the 3.1 stinger listening in wasn't something Elidibus wanted. Elidibus has clearly been feeding Urianger information, but there's good reason to believe that it was twisted to fit Elidibius' worldview, and tailored to try to make Urianger believe what the Ascians believe. Alisaie, however, was listening in without the proper, ahem, 'context'.

To put it another way: Lucifer would tell you God is a tyrant, who cast him down for daring to question his authority. Anyone who witnessed Lucifer's rebellion would be able to see it was actually because Lucifer was an amoral jerk.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Interesting theory, and it actually ties in well with what we've seen so far. In particular the final cutscene with Thordan after you defeat him - he looks up at the WoL and asks "who - what are you?!", and for a brief moment we see him/ her in a very sinister light that seems to portend something rather ominous. And you do have to wonder - what are they becoming to be able to take down enemies so powerful? Where does it stop?

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From Vishnu to Shiva, from Protector to Destroyer. From Warrior of Light to Destroyer of Worlds. But. Also from Shiva to Brahma, from Destroyer to Creator.

Thus the cycle persists and the World is restored.

I do not think that the original design was for the Ascians to survive Destruction. They fled to their own pocket universe. Mortality just might have given them more perspective.

And, we have done this all before (as Cid appears to recognize on an airship heading toward the Vortex). So, no worries.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

From Vishnu to Shiva, from Protector to Destroyer. From Warrior of Light to Destroyer of Worlds. But. Also from Shiva to Brahma, from Destroyer to Creator.

Thus the cycle persists and the World is restored.

I do not think that the original design was for the Ascians to survive Destruction. They fled to their own pocket universe. Mortality just might have given them more perspective.

And, we have done this all before (as Cid appears to recognize on an airship heading toward the Vortex). So, no worries.

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Speaking of which I would like to see Bhrama and Vishnu primals (Complete with Oppenheimer/Bravahad Gita quote)