What if we changed the way cures were scaled?

Right now cure and physick are very limited as cross classes, as they rely on the magic damage and MND stat which only healers use, making it too weak on other jobs and not needed on healers as they have their own version. So what if SE changed up how cures work to make them viable to other classes and even useful to other healers as cross classes?

What if physick was INT based?

First let's look at it from a lore point of view, mind, kind of a vague concept but I imagine it to be like an inner peace and awareness of the world kind of thing, which goes with the lore of conjurer and cure, but what about physick? The name kind of suggests it's more of a medical thing, now I've never seen a Tibetan monk perform surgery before, but I have seen a lot of learned doctors do it, so intelligence as the stat to govern physick makes sense to me.

Next let's look at what effect this would have on gameplay. Physick would become a viable cross class for Blm and smn, as well as whm, allowing blms and smns to assist heal effectively if needed, and allowing sch and whm to give minor healing without dropping cleric's stance, it would also make cure a viable cross class for sch as they would need a mind based cure for when out of cleric's stance.

The only downside to this is it means that sch HAS to level cnj to get cure and cleric's stance to be viable. But those are both very low level moves (below 15, the required level of cnj to unlock sch) which makes it far more reasonable than the requirement of war and drk needing to get gla to 22 for provoke, since you need to have these moves available to unlock sch in the first place.

What if cure scaled off of both weapon damage and magical damage and Attack power and healing magic potency (whichever is highest on the job using it)?

This would make it a viable cross class for PLD again while still being weaker than whm cure, due to weapon damage and STR on pld being lower than magical damage and MND on whm. This would allow pld at 60 to keep up in self heals with war having storm's path, equilibrium and inner beast and drk having souleater and abyssal drain, with something other than clemency.

Then what's the point in having healer jobs if anyone can heal?

That's the same as saying what's the point of damage dealers when healers can go cleric's stance? Even with these changes the healing wouldn't be nearly as effective as an actual healer, a pld whose cure scales off WD and attack power would still only heal for about 1.7k at 60 with i205 (full STR spec), which is around what a level 50 whm cures for, let alone a 60 whm and let alone let alone cure 2 and all their other heals.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then what's the point in having healer jobs if anyone can heal?

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the healers are already more a DD than a healer anyway xD

btw Cure has a trait that gives you a Cure 2 for free. so it makes no sense to use physick instead with my whm

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Right now cure and physick are very limited as cross classes, as they rely on the magic damage and MND stat which only healers use, making it too weak on other jobs and not needed on healers as they have their own version. So what if SE changed up how cures work to make them viable to other classes and even useful to other healers as cross classes?

What if physick was INT based?

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If physick were INT based then you would have to change the SCH gear from a main stat of MND to a main stat of INT. Also, if a BLM cross-classes physick in their top-tier INT gear, with the way it specs out now, they would actually heal better than a SCH does now. This pretty much would cut SCH out from the game entirely.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

What if cure scaled off of both weapon damage and magical damage and Attack power and healing magic potency (whichever is highest on the job using it)?

This would make it a viable cross class for PLD again while still being weaker than whm cure, due to weapon damage and STR on pld being lower than magical damage and MND on whm. This would allow pld at 60 to keep up in self heals with war having storm's path, equilibrium and inner beast and drk having souleater and abyssal drain, with something other than clemency.

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For this one, if you look at it from a classical standpoint the weapons that the mages wield in the FF games is never the source of their power. Magic is wielded through the weapon, but does not come from the weapon. With a few rare exceptions (RDM), mages in the series have typically had the weakest weapons which is still the case in XIV. If you make this the case then it is also likely that classes aside from healers will be able to do comparable healing with the dedicated healers we have now and thus...

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then what's the point in having healer jobs if anyone can heal?

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Summation: It's problematic from both a balancing standpoint, a class efficacy standpoint as well as generally not fitting in with the over-all lore that the Final Fantasy series has established.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

If physick were INT based then you would have to change the SCH gear from a main stat of MND to a main stat of INT. Also, if a BLM cross-classes physick in their top-tier INT gear, with the way it specs out now, they would actually heal better than a SCH does now. This pretty much would cut SCH out from the game entirely.

Summation: It's problematic from both a balancing standpoint, a class efficacy standpoint as well as generally not fitting in with the over-all lore that the Final Fantasy series has established.

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Not sure where all your balance arguments are coming from. How would a BLM with a single Cure spell outheal a SCH with fairy, shields and all their healing cooldowns? You do realise only the basic healing spell from each class is cross-class right?

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Originally Posted by Tint

the healers are already more a DD than a healer anyway xD

btw Cure has a trait that gives you a Cure 2 for free. so it makes no sense to use physick instead with my whm

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Not me. I am 100% healer, I rolled healer to heal not DPS. If I want to DPS I will play a DPS class. Not all healers do damage.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

If physick were INT based then you would have to change the SCH gear from a main stat of MND to a main stat of INT. Also, if a BLM cross-classes physick in their top-tier INT gear, with the way it specs out now, they would actually heal better than a SCH does now. This pretty much would cut SCH out from the game entirely.

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Sch wouldn't need to be retooled as physick would be the only spell INT based, they would have cure as a cross class to take its place as their primary MND based cure. As for Blm being better, as alberel said, it's 1 spell, Blm wouldn't have nearly as much power as sch for healing with their entire healing toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

For this one, if you look at it from a classical standpoint the weapons that the mages wield in the FF games is never the source of their power. Magic is wielded through the weapon, but does not come from the weapon. With a few rare exceptions (RDM), mages in the series have typically had the weakest weapons which is still the case in XIV. If you make this the case then it is also likely that classes aside from healers will be able to do comparable healing with the dedicated healers we have now

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Pld already has access to clemency which is a healing spell far more powerful than cure that is based on their WD and attack power, so there's no reason that they couldn't use other healing spells effectively the same way. And looking at it from a classical standpoint PLD has always had access to cure spells that it could use effectively even if less so than whm, which would become the same case here with this change.

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Originally Posted by Tint

btw Cure has a trait that gives you a Cure 2 for free. so it makes no sense to use physick instead with my whm

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If you're in cleric's stance doing some dps and a party member doesn't dodge an AoE, instead of dropping cleric's to do a 2.9k cure with a chance to proc a cure 2 you won't use, you can stay in cleric's and use a 2.5k physick.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

If you're in cleric's stance doing some dps and a party member doesn't dodge an AoE, instead of dropping cleric's to do a 2.9k cure with a chance to proc a cure 2 you won't use, you can stay in cleric's and use a 2.5k physick.

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activating gives a 5 seconds cooldown. deactivating does not lead to a cooldown. so i can dropp cleric, use one cure and reactivate it right after. i will not lose more dps than i would anyways, but the heal is bigger and i can proc a free cure 2 wich i probably won't use - but chances are high someone gets hit again before the freecure buff runs out and then i can heal him for zero mana cost - wich leads to more mana for dpsing. at least the tanks HP will dropp...

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then what's the point in having healer jobs if anyone can heal?

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What's the point in having DPS jobs if anyone can DPS?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

What's the point in having DPS jobs if anyone can DPS?

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Got anything better than "no u"?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Got anything better than "no u"?

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Fine, I'll bite: Specialized healers are sill better at healing than some random guy with a physick spell, even if that physick spell was stronger than a regular healer's physick/cure. They are more diversified and have dedicated cooldowns for dire situations.

This is why dedicated DPS can exist alongside Tank and Healer DPS and why DPS checks are, in fact, needed everywhere, regardless of what people like.

As such, there is no harm in giving everyone access to a decently scaled healing spell. And that's not even the scope of the suggestion in the OP since heal spells for cross class are limited among jobs and you'd only give a handful of jobs access to one.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Next let's look at what effect this would have on gameplay. Physick would become a viable cross class for Blm and smn, as well as whm, allowing blms and smns to assist heal effectively if needed, and allowing sch and whm to give minor healing without dropping cleric's stance, it would also make cure a viable cross class for sch as they would need a mind based cure for when out of cleric's stance.

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It takes away from the entire point of having the stat swap in Cleric Stance, though. Honestly, it would be severely imbalanced and SCH gear would have to be completely overhauled to boot. SMN and BLM shouldn't be having to heal anyway. If you have one of each of them in a party and they're busy healing for some reason, who's doing damage?

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The only downside to this is it means that sch HAS to level cnj to get cure and cleric's stance to be viable. But those are both very low level moves (below 15, the required level of cnj to unlock sch) which makes it far more reasonable than the requirement of war and drk needing to get gla to 22 for provoke, since you need to have these moves available to unlock sch in the first place.

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Any SCH worth half a damn should have CNJ to 34 anyway for Stone Skin.

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This would make it a viable cross class for PLD again while still being weaker than whm cure, due to weapon damage and STR on pld being lower than magical damage and MND on whm. This would allow pld at 60 to keep up in self heals with war having storm's path, equilibrium and inner beast and drk having souleater and abyssal drain, with something other than clemency.

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Beefing up Cure that way doesn't even come close to putting it on par with Inner Beast, Storm's Path, Soul Eater, Abyssal Drain, and especially not with Equilibrium. Inner Beast, Storm's Path, Souleater, and Abyssal Drain all deal damage while healing HP. Cure just roots you in place for 2 seconds while the boss continues to hit you, and you can't block/parry while you're casting either. Equilibrium is basically 8k+ free HP every 60 seconds off the GCD as long as you're in tank stance, and WAR has the easiest time dancing in and out of stance. I've seen mine crit for nearly 14k. There's no way Cure (which is a complete loss of a GCD) can compete with that. Considering PLD enmity generation is already weaker than other tanks, a stronger Cure is still useless. There's too many down sides to possibly make the argument that Cure would be comparable to any of those skills.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

If you're in cleric's stance doing some dps and a party member doesn't dodge an AoE, instead of dropping cleric's to do a 2.9k cure with a chance to proc a cure 2 you won't use, you can stay in cleric's and use a 2.5k physick.

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If I'm in cleric stance doing some DPS and a party member doesn't dodge an AoE, they can suck it until I'm out of cleric stance unless Eos feels like healing them. I don't think "party member stood in stupid" should be used as an argument for this.

This would not work under the existing game structure and I doubt it will be realized anytime soon.

This game needs content, badly. Yoshi admitted as such in his recent live letter. I would imagine development time is being dedicated to playable content instead of re-tooling the entire healing formula so that a BLM can waste his DPS potential casting physick on himself.

In 4 man content you only need one person healing, in 8 man content you only need two healers, and even then once content is learned one of those two is in cleric stance most of the time. The healer that clerics most of the time brings highly valuable skills to the raid group (mitigation and instant cast healing and with sch a fairy) that can not be replaced. Basically, no point in any other class other than a healer having useful healing in this game for party content. I mean, PLD has clemency, and that really is a niche move if ever there was one.

This thread is just going to a be a big ol' week long mess isn't it? To put it bluntly this idea doesn't work. The entire game would have to be restructured and built around it.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Physick would become a viable cross class for Blm and smn, as well as whm, allowing blms and smns to assist heal effectively if needed, and allowing sch and whm to give minor healing without dropping cleric's stance

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Healing in Cleric stance at all isn't a thing unless you're a 2.0 SCH using Lustrate or a WHM using Benediction. This might as well just ask "what if the healers DPSed and the DPS healed? Wouldn't that be something?"

Also in this case I guess SCH would just be some weird Frankenstein class that only functions in Cleric stance? What's the point of that even? Or would it only be Physick and I'd have to stance dance just to do basic healing?

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Originally Posted by Harlow

Also in this case I guess SCH would just be some weird Frankenstein class that only functions in Cleric stance? What's the point of that even? Or would it only be Physick and I'd have to stance dance just to do basic healing?

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noooo... you are supposed to crossclass cure from whm, because sch doesn't know what else to fill in those crossclass-skillslots... v.v/

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Originally Posted by Tint

noooo... you are supposed to crossclass cure from whm, because sch doesn't know what else to fill in those crossclass-skillslots... v.v/

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All mine are already full up with stuff I don't want to have to replace with Cure just to be able to heal normally.

Cleric Stance, Protect, Stone Skin, Swiftcast, Aero

I feel crossclass healing spells should have percentage scaling in the same vein MP scales with your level.

Pre HW content when you sync down stuff like Cure/Physick at lvl 49 heals a decent chunk per cast.

HW content at 60 or even early 50's? Decent chunk of healing is beat down to nothing. Instead of healing 1/10 of your max HP it is healing for around 1/30 of your max HP.

And yet the MP percentage per cast scaling is still there. You use a spell that costs MORE to do LESS for you.