I wish there was a chat feature for this since i don't feel this needs a whole post related to it. At any rate I'm currently a level 59 AST roughly in the 130s for ilvl. Running dungeons like the vault I'm being told by others that my dps is laughably low (not in rude ways) outside of gravity spam on multiple enemies.
I don't have a way to check my dps of course, however it's a huge mana drain to deal damage in these dungeons especially because I also end up healing pretty constantly. I'm wondering if it's even worth it to attack at all.
Basically using diurnal i start with aspected bene and helios then a second of collective unconscious, then switch to cleric stance. In cleric i apply the two dots then proceed to malefic 2/gravity (i apply card effects etc).
If i resort to gravity i guess im doing decent damage if there are multiple enemies, but i wonder if it isnt better to save the mp for healing.
What is the general consensus for ast? Does every little bit of damage count and I should just make sure to use LA, lightspeed, and ewers to make sure i have enough mp to heal? Or should I only heal unless it's absolutely safe to dps? What do you other Asts generally do?
Just for reference, I dont feel like a dungeon like the vault is especially difficult to heal outside the final boss. However once i get to him the only time i feel i can deal damage is the orb phase.. otherwise I'm full time healing. Is this what you all did at my ilvl here?
Looking for a bit of feedback for Ast and dps
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12-29-2015, 02:17 AMTroileLooking for a bit of feedback for Ast and dps
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12-29-2015, 02:26 AMPomeloAdd aero to your mix as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troile
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12-29-2015, 02:27 AMTroile
i didn't think of aero. Thank you.
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12-29-2015, 02:39 AMPomelo
Everything else your doing seems fine, you might be overhealing by using all 3 of your hots though. Just use a synastry enhanced asp bene and time dilate it, Celestial Opposition provides a stun for you to start gravity spamming, and also extends the hot. If theres like 2 enemies, you may as well dot them both
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12-29-2015, 02:51 AMTroile
So, it's a matter of more practice and simply being more efficient with skill usage to avoid wasting time healing?
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12-29-2015, 02:56 AMVanilleFangYeah, that's what it comes down to. When you become more comfortable with your entire kit the easier everything becomes. Understanding when you can use Cleric stance by gauging how long the tank will be safe with your buffs and HoTs is essential to good dpsing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troile
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12-29-2015, 08:44 AMYhisaIt also depends on your group as well .... Like derp DPS standing in something they not mean to stand in, or tank that never uses cooldowns D:Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
So In all you as a healer is only as good as your group, you could be the beat healer in the world and if DPS stand in crap your kinda forced to heal D:
All I can say is watch this for humor on being a healer https://youtu.be/2DxS7eT_ky4 -
12-29-2015, 12:45 PMTroileThat video clarified everything for me.... thank you, and everyone else as well for the feedback. Feel free to let this post slip into the realm where posts that are no longer needed go. Thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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12-29-2015, 04:01 PMSleighYeah that's basically right, adding in Aero too. The MP issues get SIGNIFICANTLY eased once you have access to i190-i210 gear, and until then yeah you'll be hurting unless you draw and (waste the RR) use Ewers. You of course do want to DPS when you can. AST DPS is significantly lower than the other healers, both in ways of putting it out and actual output, but it's not chump change. I actually appreciate its high DoT strengths since that synergizes well with phases where you have limited time to DPS then have to get back into heal mode, but yeah you're not beating out anyone regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troile
For Vault's final boss as AST, in i145 gear, it's not hard to DPS a great portion of the fight if people aren't being dumb. Keep up AH when you Holiest of Holies come out, keep up AB, stance down to Essential when needed, otherwise it's pretty easy to DPS. Final phase is when you have to slow it down but there are still good gaps where there's very little damage going out and you can at the least get your 3 DoTs up. It basically comes down to if the tank uses CDs on the cleaves, and if everyone including you and the tank don't get bled by the walking knights, and break your chain in a timely fashion, and don't stand in fire. If those things happen, yeah you gotta go into heal duty for a while. -
12-29-2015, 05:53 PMVanilleFangYeah, I just meant in general though. I had thought about adding in like "things happen though, like the tank will stand in 900 Aoes or something" but I was lazy. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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12-29-2015, 06:31 PMLdlvYour cards buffs should make up for the DPS loss of being AST, but it still depends on the RNG and party members because they are the one who receive the buffs.Quote:
Running dungeons like the vault I'm being told by others that my dps is laughably low (not in rude ways)
I personally haven't get into Vault with my AST.
Well, even with SCH or WHM, healing in Vault can be a bit intense if the party members don't know the mechanics. Your ilvl (130s) should not be a problem at all.
You are doing fine, learn the mechanics first and remember the bosses rotations, after that you can optimize your DPS while anticipating when you have to throw AoE heals and single heals.
But well, if you can keep everyone alive, I think you have done a good job. It's healer job to keep everyone alive.
Just don't sacrifice people to slip in some DPS if you feel you have a hard time keeping everyone alive, because it isn't that worth imo. -
01-05-2016, 09:47 AM_slowpoke_Do keep in mind that Aero's total potency¹ is equal to that of one Malefic II. Unless you either a) need to move, or b) use an oGCD ability (such as juggling cards), it's generally better (and simpler) to just use Malefic II. Look at it as a filler move, not an integral part of your DoT rotation that should be kept up at all times².Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomelo
¹ 50 potency initial hit + 6 ticks * 25 potency = 200
² Same deal for WHMs, btw, Stone III (210 potency) is better than Aero unless a) or b). -
01-05-2016, 10:11 AMSleighAero:Quote:
Originally Posted by _slowpoke_
- 2/3 the MP cost of Malefic II
- Insta-cast, prime for the abundance of oGCDs AST must employ regularly, and stance dancing. Combust is not enough.
- Affected slightly by Spell Speed's effect on DoTs, making it slightly stronger than Malefic II
The same applies to WHM too even. Aero is perfect for movement, inserting Fluid Aura, stance dancing with Cleric Stance, and to a lesser extent PoM and/or Assize. Honestly it bugs me when people just look at face potency value on a healer when, even in concerns to DPSing, there's just more to it than that.
All you really have to watch for is that you don't clip your DoT (generally a big no-no with Aero even before Malefic II or Stone III existed) unless movement is forcing you to use Aero and only Aero, and you don't use it near the end of a phase or enemy's life bar. -
01-05-2016, 11:47 AM_slowpoke_True, though the savings here are really negligible (~10 MP per second assuming you DPS 100% of the time). Keep in mind I'm operating under the assumption that DPS is something you do as a healer when everything else is under control and accounted for - including MP management, i.e. MP is not an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
…that is basically exactly what I have said? Maybe I was unclear or implied too much.Quote:
- Insta-cast, prime for the abundance of oGCDs AST must employ regularly, and stance dancing.
True, though probably negligible at current gear levels. It also depends on what secondary stats you gear for (which is mostly personal preference at the moment). Quite a few ASTs seem to prefer Crit/Det over SS for various reasons, which will equally effect DoTs and regular spells.Quote:
- Affected slightly by Spell Speed's effect on DoTs, making it slightly stronger than Malefic II
I'm very aware that my argument here *will* fall apart if secondary stats - SS specifically - become more relevant again, either due to improved scaling or just sheer numbers on future gear. At the moment, though, this is what we have.
I'm looking at face potency in the context of the rest of the toolkit, and that context shows us that it's generally better to use Aero as a filler skill and not as an integral part of the damage rotation. That does not mean you basically never use it (far from it), it means that you have to think about when to use it instead of just going Combust II → Combust → Aero whenever you pop into CS.Quote:
Honestly it bugs me when people just look at face potency value on a healer when, even in concerns to DPSing, there's just more to it than that.
If I may draw a comparison with SCH/SMN, you should not think of Aero as Bio (keep up at all times while DPS'ing), you should think of it as Ruin II (filler skill to weave oGCDs or for movement). There's obviously still some differences, but that's the basic gist.
Though, to bring this to a close, at this point in the game I would say it's still a personal playstyle choice (maybe I should have presented it as such, and less as fact :) ). We both seem to agree it's a very fuzzy thing number-wise (especially on AST, I would say less so on WHM), and it's unlikely you will gain or lose much either way. -
01-05-2016, 01:16 PMLyrica_Ashtine
How is the fact of how White Mages may or may not use aero even relevant for Astrologian?!