My AST card strategy.

So ive been playing AST a lot, after a while i started changing how i get my cards used. This is a strategy i use during 8-man content.

I ALWAYS value the AoE effect over the others. I wanted my buffs to act like Fey Wind. Cause, i believe a 5% party buff is better that giving a 10-15% buff to just 1 member. I AoE mostly Balance, Arrow, Bole is a bit situational, not exactly sure about the Spear, and sometimes the Spire. I don't AoE Ewer cause the potency's to weak to make a difference. Usually if i have a card like Balance but no AoE up, i put it in the Spread, so when i do get the AoE, i can use it immediately. Otherwise i just give the card i draw to whoever necessary till i get my AoE up.

That's pretty much it. I've been able to tolerate the RNG with this, most of the time it works in my favor.

Yeah, that's pretty much standard strat in full parties

Pretty good strategy, just remember not to waste too many draws trying to set up the perfect combo. Its often better to throw up an unbuffed card than to go 3 draws with nothing.

I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about DPS rotations, but is arrow really ideal if you have a DRG in your party? I know they have a very strict rotation and try to stick with about 590 SkS. I don't know how much of an issue Arrow would be for them though (I do know that they try to avoid DoT clipping). I guess this could be argued for all dps though..

Pardon my ignorance. Lol

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about DPS rotations, but is arrow really ideal if you have a DRG in your party? I know they have a very strict rotation and try to stick with about 590 SkS. I don't know how much of an issue Arrow would be for them though (I do know that they try to avoid DoT clipping).

Pardon my ignorance. Lol

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I actually had an issue during A1S where a DRG didnt want Arrow cause it would mess up his rotation, i guess the change would mess with his muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by WolfKid

I actually had an issue during A1S where a DRG didnt want Arrow cause it would mess up his rotation, i guess the change would mess with his muscle memory.

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Yeah, that's what I've seen DRG say. I do know BLM generally love Arrow, especially if they can get another Fire IV out lol

Healer main here.
but when ever I play as a bard, i always ask the AST to throw me the spear when ever they don't need to burn it.

Me personally just does this

Spear = Ninja >mech >bard >smn/drg
(Ninja got most gcds +ninjitsu also u can throw spear on urself or on tanks before a tank buster hits)

Balance = all dps jobs

Arrow = black mage, white mage, urself
(Do not give to any other dps as it cause them issues with rotation or burn tp too fast)

Bole = throw to tanks

Spire = ninja > tanks > mnk/drg/brd/mech
(Ninja is first due to goad which he can throw to tanks or dps)

Ewer = urself, healers, bard, tanks
(Brd if hes using foe and there is more casters in party , tanks just for more flashes but be careful with dark if he got darkside on)

For AoE effect spear > balance at start of fight at it lowers everyone cooldowns after that u either spread balance or bole depending on the fight for a nuke phase or reduce party damage taken

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

For AoE effect spear > balance at start of fight at it lowers everyone cooldowns after that u either spread balance or bole depending on the fight for a nuke phase or reduce party damage taken

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As a Bard I'll take balance, spear, arrow, spire(if you don't need it), ewer(if you don't need it).

But remember for spear - some jobs prebuff at like 2-5s pre pull so should have spear up by then - not at pull - my CDs are already gone by that point and will do nothing for me.

Be careful an Ewer on a DRK using Darkside won't have any effect so generally I rather Royal Road than throw on tank.
About the AoE effect I noticed to Spread a card before getting the expanded effect is better else I waste in the end either my expanded on a Bole or something other not useful or just discard a ton cards before getting Arrow/Balance maybe Spear...

About prebuffing even as SCH/AST I prebuff the party at 3s pullmacro because of server delays and that I can start DPS rotation :O

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

If ur prebuffing before pull ur doing it all wrong and wasting precious seconds of extra dps, i already scream at dumbass tanks blowing all cooldowns then run to boss... If ur doing this ur doing it wrong

I throw spear as sooon as the tank use there throw skill... If u already prebuffed before that well u loose out simple as that

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Actually no it's correct - when the top theorycrafters give you that:
http://angered.guildwork.com/forum/t...ide-by-krietor

Hawk's, b4b, raging, empy(should hit when tank hits)

And from another one:
4s prepull : (Quelling Strikes) (Battle Voice) (Hawk's Eye) (Blood for Blood) (Raging Strikes)

So yes spear should be up before tank pulls else it's wasted.

And there are others to prebuff as well - why people are using pull timers 15s for nin, 12 or 10s for bard, 7s for sch/smn(I guess mnk as well for their cycling through forms) - most work with 5s though.

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

If ur prebuffing before pull ur doing it all wrong and wasting precious seconds of extra dps, i already scream at dumbass tanks blowing all cooldowns then run to boss... If ur doing this ur doing it wrong

I throw spear as sooon as the tank use there throw skill... If u already prebuffed before that well u loose out simple as that

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I guess you have no idea how the Bard opener works, feel free to educate yourself. http://angered.guildwork.com/forum/t...ide-by-krietor

Edit: Maybe should have refreshed before posting (Oops!).

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

About the AoE effect I noticed to Spread a card before getting the expanded effect is better else I waste in the end either my expanded on a Bole or something other not useful or just discard a ton cards before getting Arrow/Balance maybe Spear...

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Definitely agree with this strategy. Once I have a card on Spread I can hunt for the RR I need (1/3 odds of hitting it), and failing that, I can hand out the card unbuffed then RR or hand out the less than ideal draw. With Expanded RR, my odds are still 1/3 for an ideal Arrow or Balance draw, but I have less play with bad draws. I've already decided what cards are useful for my RR and have to hope for a solid Shuffle or hope I'm not forced to Spread a crummy draw. Setting up combos isn't bad, minimizing your exposure to RNG while in the heat of battle is the tough stuff.

Yawn... Theorycrafters ... Require perfect timing on everything for it to work... Sorry guys but ur not that perfect as u must add human error ... To pull of theorycrafter numbers or dps u would require to hit everything perfect and flawlessly , this is why i do not follow the theorycrafting way not more like a sheep ... They always get puzzeled or shocked when a player does more dps then then without doing the optimal rotation hell my smn friend is rank 5th world wide on as2 or as3 cant remember which one but hes 2nd eu... And he does not even follow the thoerycrafters xD

I really need to stay away from these forums D:

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

I really need to stay away from these forums D:

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Yes please, stay away with your opinions.
It's nothing new nor hard to pull off. Maybe you should get Bard to 60 or at least 50 before you try to talk about a class you obviously don't understand.

The (AoE) Spear pre-pull is very good. It's simple to use: ask your party members when they're going to blow their CDs in relation to the coundown in the pull macro. it lasts for 20s, and if everyone is using cooldowns at around 7s, you just use it at 10. You'll get 10 seconds of the Spear pre-pull to buff everyone that pre-uses some cooldowns and you'll also get the cooldowns that are burned before. Nothing hard to do.

As for using cards with the AoE effect, I learned that it depends. Expanding an Arrow may be good, but there are situations in which I prefer to use an Enhanced one (+50%) in a single player because they're doing way more damage than everyone else.

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

Yes please, stay away with your opinions.
It's nothing new nor hard to pull off. Maybe you should get Bard to 60 or at least 50 before you try to talk about a class you obviously don't understand.

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Or stop checking out my char... Because this is my 3rd character been bard @ 50 in 2.0 so u know gtfo my char xD?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about DPS rotations, but is arrow really ideal if you have a DRG in your party? I know they have a very strict rotation and try to stick with about 590 SkS. I don't know how much of an issue Arrow would be for them though (I do know that they try to avoid DoT clipping). I guess this could be argued for all dps though..

Pardon my ignorance. Lol

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I'll just answer this one quickly as well since I love DPSing on DRG and love optimizing it, though I'm no where near what would be considered a main-DRG.

If TP isn't an issue, DRGs can make incredible use of Arrow as you can burn through your rotation faster and thus maintain Blood of the Dragon easier and allowing for an additional burst via Geirskogul. DRGs already have a small issue clipping their DoTs at 2.4s GCD but if you reverse the rotation after getting Arrow (so go from ID combo into two TT combos before going back to ID combo), you'll have your DoTs / Debuffs fall off (napkin math here! - 32.4s for 15GCDs at 2.40s * 0.9 = 2.16s GCDs) for only 2.4s before reapplication, so it's not a bad trade off in my mind.

Like I said, I'm not a DRG expert at all but I do like the idea of getting an Arrow on DRG a lot when I'm not eating through TP like candy. lol.

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

About the AoE effect I noticed to Spread a card before getting the expanded effect is better else I waste in the end either my expanded on a Bole or something other not useful or just discard a ton cards before getting Arrow/Balance maybe Spear...

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If you can't get a good spread card while you have the aoe effect ready and you draw another card that won't have a good use to be aoe'd, you can always right click off of the aoe effect and give it to a single person. Of course this is situational though and sometimes it might be better to just right click off the card and wait for another. Depends on the fight and how it's going.

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Originally Posted by Mendalas

If you can't get a good spread card while you have the aoe effect ready and you draw another card that won't have a good use to be aoe'd, you can always right click off of the aoe effect and give it to a single person. Of course this is situational though and sometimes it might be better to just right click off the card and wait for another. Depends on the fight and how it's going.

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On Ps isnt as easy while in trouble of fight to click off buffs one way or the other also you lose a card no matter how you turn it.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Like I said, I'm not a DRG expert at all but I do like the idea of getting an Arrow on DRG a lot when I'm not eating through TP like candy. lol.

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The DRG in my raid group has an orgasm in voice chat every time I hit him with an Arrow. The only fight that it's bad to throw that on a Dragoon is A2S; in all others they don't have any TP problems because of their traited invigorate.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

The DRG in my raid group has an orgasm in voice chat every time I hit him with an Arrow. The only fight that it's bad to throw that on a Dragoon is A2S; in all others they don't have any TP problems because of their traited invigorate.

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So what happens when he gets an Enhanced Arrow? ~.^

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

So what happens when he gets an Enhanced Arrow? ~.^

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We wipe because he dies from the overload =D

I'll tell you how i manage my cards.

For the initial pull, I try to get expanded arrow, balance, or spear. Spear is really good on the initial pull because you know everyone's using every cd they have.

Mid-battle, if I don't get balance or arrow, I shuffle immediately unless I see a use for whatever I drew. Usually there is one. If I do get balance or arrow, spread, unless we're approaching a dps check and I won't have time to RR.

Let's say I've shuffled and have no RR.
I get ewer or spire, immediately RR them.
If I get bole, I pair it with synastry and AB/AH/CU, time dilate, and start DPSing my damn self. Bole doesn't benefit from RRs, always use it raw if you get it.
If I get spear, I spread it because spear is awesome. I use it on myself more often than anything. Spear benefits GREATLY from any RR.
Now if I get balance or arrow, i spread them and wait for the next card to RR it
Two balances obviously you just use them individually, since enhanced is only 1.5x strength. For arrows I like to extend or enhance them because some classes (black mage) benefit more from speed than others. And also because putting an enhanced arrow on a dark knight using blood sword and watching them run out of TP amuses me.

I try not to have an RR before I have a spread card. Nobody wants to be stuck with expanded bole.

Handy trick: Use shuffle to keep the drawn card effect active until spread comes off CD if you can't use whatever you drew right away.

Now, the thing is, DPS are going to account for between 70 and 80% of the raid's total dps. This means that expanded cards aren't strictly worth four cards like you'd think. If one DPS is doing 15% of the raid damage (which would actually put them behind the tanks lol), and you put a balance on them, that increases the raid dps by 1.5% yeah? And expanded increases raid dps by 5%. So EXTENDED would be 3/5s of expanded. Enhanced balance is pretty sick on the initial pull or if one of your dps is far and away better than the rest, but that's about it. Avoid getting enhanced balance, if you get a bole just use the bole and drop some dots. Pretty sure AST can contribute 2% of a raid's dps for 30 seconds.

I used to try to make AoE's all the time as well but what I find works better is when I draw a card, check to see if that can benefit anyone immediately and use it. If not shuffle it if you want, or just royal road it ideally to make the next one more potent. AoE's are great but I find lots of times it can apply to the wrong person or what not and ends up on the tanks, healers and maybe 1 or 2 DPS vs just putting an enhanced balance on a BLM or something with Time Dialation I think would probably be better. I find sometimes you fall into the trap of spending several minutes or draws and just skipping them trying to get that perfect combo, when just using them as they come up is more beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

On Ps isnt as easy while in trouble of fight to click off buffs one way or the other also you lose a card no matter how you turn it.

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This should help you, someone i know linked me a thread from a few days ago and someone proposed a Discard macro, which is very useful for PS players like you and i. While i was used to click manually with the controller this proved to be extremely useful.

Macro title: "Discard"
/micon Draw
/statusoff "Bole Drawn"
/statusoff "Balance Drawn"
/statusoff "Ewer Drawn"
/statusoff "Spear Drawn"
/statusoff "Spire Drawn"
/statusoff "Arrow Drawn" <me>

It works flawlessly.

I try every once in a while to get a combo, but half if not most of the time I deal the cards I've been dealt. Something is better than nothing.

I normally apply:
Spear: DRG>MNK>MCH>DRK>NIN. Goal: Benefit a large number of CDs within its time frame more than once. Otherwise, burn.
Balance: Any DPS>Tank>Tank who REALLY needs power.
Spire: Anyone under 60% TP (50% for DRG) who is NOT a magic person. Otherwise, burn or shuffle immediately.
Arrow: BLM>MNK=NIN> DRG> BRD> SMN>MCH>DRK>PLD>WAR Order based on who's doing better. Or myself if things go bad or if I want to fight.
Ewer: myself>DRK>PLD>Heals>Others Otherwise, burn or shuffle immediately.
Bole: Tanks or Burn. Never expand.

NIN: Ninjistu As far as I know is their only CD that is 20 seconds long. I can't use spear on them over someone else has more 20~30 second CDs. Speed, MORE SPEED.
MCH: Combo roulette will short change them on damage. Spear might make it better. Can't trust them with Arrow.
BRD: Arrow all the way. Can't trust them with Spear, their CDs might recharge instantly making it useless.
DRG: Spear+Spear= More jumping!
MNK: Speed on MORE Speed. I'll get them to Dragonball speed some day!
PLD: If no-one else, then for nostalgia's sake I will make them truly fast strikers again. I did play 1.0 ;) Needs MP to AoE tanks, use stoneskin and clemency, if not in need move down the line.
WAR: Only one oGCD attack? Check. Never use spear on warrior.
DRK: Tons of oGCD attacks? Check. Oh I'm going to be nettled if they squared spear. As for Arrow, think of it like blood weapon, only that it's not. Needs MP to function, cannot use while Darkside is on, if not in need and/or impossible to apply, move down the line.
SMN: Sure they got lots of oGCDs but the problem is resources. It doesn't matter if spear is applied, when there is no Aethercharge, spear is done/useless. Never use Spear on.
BLM: It takes forever to cast. Ley lines fixes that. Arrow will help the same way. All CDs are 60 seconds or more, do not use spear, ever. EVER. NEVEREVEREVEREVEREVER. ever.

Expand: Never for spear or bole.
Extend: Anything
Enchane: ANYTHANG!

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

SMN: Sure they got lots of oGCDs but the problem is resources. It doesn't matter if spear is applied, when there is no Aethercharge, spear is done/useless. Never use Spear on.

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What kind of smns do you play with, because i have had quite a few love when you give them spear, as they have other GCDs on short timers helping them, in fact the last good smn i raided with usually topped the DPS chart when i gave him most of the spears, and usually didn't when he had none. Spear is good for them, assuming they know what they are doing.

Otherwise spear is also good to even use on your self right before you use big Cds like aether, and syn, but again, it's more of a situational card then any other.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

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Keep in mind it does not alter the cooldowns of skills already used at the time spear was applied.
The possibly of having spear before they had use aethercharge which is a minute CD or both it and all of the charges within the CD, isn't all that sound. With the exception of En.Drain, all of the aethercharges have a 10 sec CD, which means, Spear will only slash the time by 2 by default. Sure that'll probably save them 6s with extended. Then there's Dreadwrym Trance and DeathFlare. Both are 15 seconds, but what summoner would normally blow Deathflare less than 10 seconds in. If they managed to have Aethercharge up maybe it'd make a difference, but you can only count on that at the start of the battle. Spear would cut like 3~4 seconds off DWT and Deathflare. I'm not even going to throw Raging Strikes into this.

All this without considering this important note about the summoner's arsenal:

The Aethercharge. It doesn't matter if DTW and Deathflare are affected by spear, you cannot activate DWT without using aethercharges to power it up. Assuming your summoner used all the charges without missing a beat, there's 55~30 seconds of no Aethercharge, 15 seconds less downtime if you've busted DWT in its full glory, and that's excluding the possibility that they got another Aethercharge ready outside the very start. Downtime in which is too long for Spear to even barely reach its potential. Add that with the possibly to get the 1 of 6 cards in for them and we got ourselves a dead buff. That alone is the reason why I will never give Spear to summoners and scholars over anyone else.

If you can coordinate with whomever your SMN is, to make the best out of spear then cool, that's your game, but otherwise, I'd give it to someone who can make better use of it on a whim, like a DRG.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

Keep in mind it does not alter the cooldowns of skills already used at the time spear was applied.
The possibly of having spear before they had use aethercharge which is a minute CD or both it and all of the charges within the CD, isn't all that sound. With the exception of En.Drain, all of the aethercharges have a 10 sec CD, which means, Spear will only slash the time by 2 by default. Sure that'll probably save them 6s with extended. Then there's Dreadwrym Trance and DeathFlare. Both are 15 seconds, but what summoner would normally blow Deathflare less than 10 seconds in. If they managed to have Aethercharge up maybe it'd make a difference, but you can only count on that at the start of the battle. Spear would cut like 3~4 seconds off DWT and Deathflare. I'm not even going to throw Raging Strikes into this.

All this without considering this important note about the summoner's arsenal:

The Aethercharge. It doesn't matter if DTW and Deathflare are affected by spear, you cannot activate DWT without using aethercharges to power it up. Assuming your summoner used all the charges without missing a beat, there's 55~30 seconds of no Aethercharge, 15 seconds less downtime if you've busted DWT in its full glory, and that's excluding the possibility that they got another Aethercharge ready outside the very start. Downtime in which is too long for Spear to even barely reach its potential. Add that with the possibly to get the 1 of 6 cards in for them and we got ourselves a dead buff. That alone is the reason why I will never give Spear to summoners and scholars over anyone else.

If you can coordinate with whomever your SMN is, to make the best out of spear then cool, that's your game, but otherwise, I'd give it to someone who can make better use of it on a whim, like a DRG.

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I already knew it only applied to CDs not used yet, as well as most of what you just said, This is why i asked what kind of summoners you play with, because spear needs to be used smartly on a smn to get the most out of it, but saying "never" is a little odd, i guess it's just personal preference, but the way i have been using it on them has worked very well and i see no reason to change it, also strange for drg to get spear, as i usually give them balance or arrow. usually never waste a spear on them over just using it as RR food.

Different AST styles i guess.