Expert Roulette & Why

Why? Why? Why?
Why only 2 dungeons? I know everyone complains about this but COME ON, SE. It was fine at 3.0, but for 3.1 this is just torture.

I'm practically stuck farming the same dungeon every day. It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to queue for expert (or level 60) simply because... it's not a real roulette with only TWO options. I'm just as likely to get the same dungeon 7 times in a row as I am the other one. That's NOT cool for only 2 dungeons! I've ran Pharos Sirius HM countless times because of this, and I honestly hate that dungeon now.

(The one time my Divine Veil is actually useful for something, and most healers don't even cure me after I activate it when the Big Blue Guy comes out, FFS).

Game's getting on my nerves really fast.

EDIT: I just want to say, as a summary to this topic; YOSHI-P NEEDS A BIGGER DEV TEAM. SQUARE-ENIX, GIVE IT TO HIM.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

I'm just as likely to get the same dungeon 7 times in a row as I am the other one.

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That's not how math works!

I agree. It's pretty torturous at this point. They're putting me to sleep and I don't know how much my groups would appreciate their healer ptfo'ing on them.

This is one of the worst things about HW to me. So far we haven't particularly seen enough extra content to make the loss of a dungeon per patch, relative to ARR, worthwhile.

The least they could have done was kept the other Level 60 dungeons in Expert. I know people were tired of those, too, but it would have had the benefit of keeping the Roulette from getting too repetitive.

Due to diadem, dungeon spamming is hardly a concern, Even if it was 3 dungeons, you would just get sick of them at the same rate and complain anyway. SE cannot win this.

Just don't do them... If you getting tired of seeing the same mob groups, dealing with damage dealers, healers, tanks that don't play your way, same team jump rope boss battles, etc. and etc. Than do PVP. I'm sure by now the PvP'ers don't care about the esoteric farmers and would like to see their queuing speed up again. Trust me... every fight is never the same.

They either needed to have kept Alwaysreap and Fractal in with Sirius HM and Saint Moc's or just simply rename Expert roulette to Coin Toss roulette. I liked the old top dungeon roulette system better in early 2.x days when we actually had variety. What we have now is near polar opposite (only thing worse being them releasing a single dungeon for a patch cycle).

There are only two dungeons because Development time for the Diadem had to come from somewhere. While Diadem wasn't the caliber of content I was hoping for, I'm still glad SE is experimenting with battle content and I hope they continue. I would rather have variety in battle content as a whole than just variety in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Due to diadem, dungeon spamming is hardly a concern, Even if it was 3 dungeons, you would just get sick of them at the same rate and complain anyway. SE cannot win this.

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You're right. Everyone complained between each new set of Expert dungeons before 3.0 too. It's been proven that people will complain about the dungeons regardless. "They're too boring!" "Let us speed run them faster!" "They aren't new or special or interesting or cool or good!" We've seen it all months ago.

If they would stop making things like verminion, and go back to three dungeons, I would be a happier farmer.

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Due to diadem, dungeon spamming is hardly a concern,

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Diadem is not comparable, unless you are an advocate of people staying just long enough to get the objectives done and bail out instead of actually staying for the whole 90 minutes. If you stay for the entire 90 minutes, it is by no means an efficient way of tome farming (as well as being even more mind-numbing than having two dungeons on a "roulette")

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Even if it was 3 dungeons, you would just get sick of them at the same rate and complain anyway.

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Speak for yourself.

Experimenting with diadem

We are going to make an instanced zone where gatherers and battle classes can work together! Excellent

We are going to make it so gatherers instantly get the good things from nodes while still able to loot on the gear drops! Occasionally a chest will spawn and we will reward those battle classes with crystals! Excellent

We are going to randomly spawn NM's by killing normal mobs, but won't everyone just meet in the same place and farm together, no not at all that has never happened before in previous content! Excellent keep going

We are then going to make these hard enough you need more then one party to kill them but don't worry other parties will be in the zone too so they can help out! Yes yes teamwork

We are then going to make it so just DPS affects credit, you're wish you never brought those gatherers with you! This just gets better and better

Randomised stats with i220 secondaries can drop making all raod gear redundant! Thatal teach them pesky raiders

We are removing the kick option! Great now I can afk with no fear of harassment

Introducing diadem aka hunts 3.1

They could of handled it alot better, gatherers could of collected NM pop items, you could require doorways that can only be opened by them. Crafters could of made pop items from what the gatherers got.

Time extensions

Tiered NM's

For the harder bosses, special buff items could be made if you find the mats for them. Like heros tonic double hp for 5mins and stuff.

Creating the Level 60 Roulette tier so soon was certainly a huge disappointment. Evidently, SE wasn't listening when all the complaints came down the pipe about lack of variety of dungeons in Expert Roulette pre-Heavensward - and we had THREE dungeons in the Roulette, then! Heavensward came around, and there were only two dungeons in Expert; folks were annoyed, but hey, there WERE only two level 60 dungeons (discounting the Research Facility), and given the horrendous amount of content SE had already churned out for Heavensward, it was reasonable to expect only two new high-level dungeons. More dungeons would be added in due time, and that would give Expert Roulette the variety it so desperately needed.

Except it didn't happen that way. Two new dungeons were added to Expert - but then they went ahead and created a new Roulette to move the old dungeons to. So now, not only does Expert still lack variety, we can be confident that in the future it will ALWAYS lack variety, just like the pre-Heavensward Expert Roulette except worse since there's only two dungeons instead of three. Most unfortunate. :(

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Due to diadem, dungeon spamming is hardly a concern, Even if it was 3 dungeons, you would just get sick of them at the same rate and complain anyway. SE cannot win this.

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so instead of dungeon spamming we're going to spam the same instance, on the same island, killing the same mobs over and over with no strategy involved?

Yeah forget that, not a good fix, and you're right... SE cannot win this.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

That's not how math works!

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You're right, it's not! I have gotten the same dungeon now for two weeks in a row.
I haven't taken a math statistics course in years. forgive me

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Originally Posted by Whiston

That's not how math works!

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Uh, you sure about that? It's basically just the probability of getting heads 7 times in a row vs getting tails 7 time a row.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

That's not how math works!

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I mean, unless he is saying he has the same odds of getting the same dungeon 7 times in a row as getting the other dungeon 7 times in a row. Which is true. It's kind of hard to tell from his sentence though.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

You're right. Everyone complained between each new set of Expert dungeons before 3.0 too. It's been proven that people will complain about the dungeons regardless. "They're too boring!" "Let us speed run them faster!" "They aren't new or special or interesting or cool or good!" We've seen it all months ago.

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True, but just because something is bad, doesn't mean that it cannot be worse. Having 3 dungeons is 150% more options, and consequently should take roughly that much longer to get 'bored' of it. This assumes people are getting bored due to repetitiveness.

It's hard to tell if it's just dungeon quality though. I personally do not like the two new ones, straight from my first run.

I'd like to further this by adding that 'people' is very generic. The same 'people' complaining pre 3.0 are not necessarily the same ones as complaining now.

Finally, if people complained that there were too few dungeons pre 3.0, why did SE think it was in their best interests to reduce it even further?

well for those who are ranting that there's only 2 of them now on Expert... tell that to my record getting always that one dungeon all the time, regardless of how many dungeons there were in the roulette... *shakes fist at keeper of the lake*

Although this time around I really love both of the dungeons so it's not as bad as foreverreap. They could have left the past 2 dungeons in the expert roulette to have at least 4.

I'm personally getting tired of getting SMA 6 times in a row. Even if it's a fun dungeon, doing it everyday starts to wear and just becomes tiresome. Would it not be better to keep the previous tier of level 60 dungeons and enforce a rather low Ilvl sync to keep the "expert" aspect of it?

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I'm personally getting tired of getting SMA 6 times in a row. Even if it's a fun dungeon, doing it everyday starts to wear and just becomes tiresome. Would it not be better to keep the previous tier of level 60 dungeons and enforce a rather low Ilvl sync to keep the "expert" aspect of it?

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That's...actually a pretty good idea. Sync it down to i160 or i170, and it would maintain the same rough difficulty curve as the new dungeons, thus justifying the same Roulette rewards for "older" content (which if I had to guess is the main reason they *don't* keep those dungeons in Expert as a rule).

To all the people saying this isn't true roulette: yes it is! Have you ever played actual roulette before? You can bet on black or red, odd or even, and a few other 50/50 chances.

I do 3 a day on my main and two alts. It's really not that big a deal and I cap each week. Would it be nice to have more dungeons, yes. I'm not really sure why they didn't include the last two with the new ones but I suspect even if they did people would fine 4 not enough. I personally don't run lv60 dungeon roulette. I'm not sure what the advantage of running that roulette is really.

Yoshi plz rename "Expert Coin Flip"

I'd just like to say that even if there were 3 dungeons per roulette, like prior to Heavensward, it wouldn't make me enjoy Expert any more than I do now. It's still the same boring grind over and over and I always dread having to do it regardless if there's 2, 3, 4 or whatever dungeons in that roulette.

I'm glad they're shifting dev time around to other things instead of the same old mindless dungeon grind every patch.

To people who think they will not get the same dungeon with one more dungeon in the roulette, there are times I get the same dungeon in the low level roulette 3 days in a row.

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Originally Posted by Felis

To people who think they will not get the same dungeon with one more dungeon in the roulette, there are times I get the same dungeon in the low level roulette 3 days in a row.

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Yes, if you have an apple and an orange in a box and reach in and grab one randomly, it's possible to grab an apple three times. Add in a banana, kiwi, pineapple and coconut and it's still possible to grab an apple 3 times. However, the odds are greater that you may get something else.

Further, expert and leveling roulette vary quite differently. Leveling roulette you're often stuck with other people who specifically chose that dungeon as their highest level dungeon they can queue for. Tam Tara and Toto are quite common, because the fate grinds around those levels are not as effective. However, dungeons from 34-50 are less common due to the highly effective fate farming in places such as CCH. This of course changed a bit when the new jobs were added and every queue was for Brayflox/Haukke.

Conversely, expert roulette is far less likely to have people who queued for the dungeon specifically and is much more likely to have 3 others who queued in a roulette for a random choice.

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Originally Posted by Felis

To people who think they will not get the same dungeon with one more dungeon in the roulette, there are times I get the same dungeon in the low level roulette 3 days in a row.

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Or as low level roulette used to be known if you did it as a healer "tam tara roulette".

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Originally Posted by Helix_Ice

I'm glad they're shifting dev time around to other things instead of the same old mindless dungeon grind every patch.

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I sure am glad the mindless grind is outside now. Also very glad that there are many people playing LoV. I actually saw two people playing each other the other day.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

You're right, it's not! I have gotten the same dungeon now for two weeks in a row.
I haven't taken a math statistics course in years. forgive me

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I'm in the same boat. In fact, I've yet to get Pharos HM since the first time I ran it. I can't even remember what happens in that dungeon anymore.

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Originally Posted by Odd

To all the people saying this isn't true roulette: yes it is! Have you ever played actual roulette before? You can bet on black or red, odd or even, and a few other 50/50 chances.

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You've clearly never played it either. Black and Red odds are not 50:50, because of zero and maybe 00 pending on which version. In fact all posted odds and payouts don't take them into account to ensure the house is always on top.

Anyway I wonder more who was the bone head who decided to make level 60 roulette. We weren't ready for it right now expert roulette should be with 4 dungeons and no level 60 yet.

Is the reason they split the 4 dungeons due to item level entry? Makes sense. I guess they would rather people complain about having 2 dungeons, than people complaining about low item lvl players making it tough for players.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Is the reason they split the 4 dungeons due to item level entry? Makes sense. I guess they would rather people complain about having 2 dungeons, than people complaining about low item lvl players making it tough for players.

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Yes, but why did they do that? No new raid content was added and the ilvl max is still 210 so why make a new set of dungeons have a higher ilvl request and new ilvl drops. They could have tuned those dungeons similar to the ones we already had.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

That's...actually a pretty good idea. Sync it down to i160 or i170, and it would maintain the same rough difficulty curve as the new dungeons, thus justifying the same Roulette rewards for "older" content (which if I had to guess is the main reason they *don't* keep those dungeons in Expert as a rule).

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I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.