HARD four-man dungeons

From this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ip_minor_news/

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However, if there is a lot of demand, they will create separate 4-man raids.

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Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us HARD CONTENT that doesn't require finding and syncing our schedules with seven other people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think a ton of casual/midcore gamers who don't have time to commit to 8-man raid groups would LOVE this. And making these hard dungeons with variable paths/objectives would make a true alternative path to endgame content.

Coordinating the schedules of four people is just massively easier than eight. And as more players go through these raids, who knows? People would have to learn to play their jobs better, and this might broaden the size of the 8-man raid community, too.

Do it do it do it do it. No reason not to.

I thought Diadem would be that much-needed accessible endgame content -- but it wasn't. This game needs that badly.

Also, and maybe a Dev can answer this: What is the best way to show demand for content that doesn't exist in the game?

I was discussing this with a friend. It would be nice to release one harder dungeon that will reward players with double Eso, but obviously add in difficult mechanics etc. Another thing to add is to maybe make it the current dungeon ilevel but make it Aetherial gear.

It'd be interesting if raids had two versions, 4 or 8 man, and you could choose. Obviously the mechanics and damage would need gearing between the options but it could also act as a 'trainer' for those who do it as 8 man. A loot lockout could be shared between the two but if the loot was the same it would allow people like me, and the OP, to experience end tier content but are unable to commit to 8 man teams.

I think this should go beyond just dungeons you grind for tokens; I think four-man "raid" dungeons should literally be a completely different arm of endgame, complete with their own unique drops and reward systems.

This game is mostly designed to cater to a casual/midcore audience, but the only long-lasting endgame is hardcore raid content that only 2 percent of the population can complete. It just doesn't really make sense. This game needs some kind of endgame that everyone can get more easily involved with. Like I said earlier, I thought that would be Diadem, but clearly it's not. Diadem requires absolutely zero skill; it's nothing but a loot pinata.

Give us honest four-man raid dungeons (and alleviate the huge constraint of needing seven other people) and that would go a long way toward filling the giant gap.

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It'd be interesting if raids had two versions, 4 or 8 man, and you could choose. Obviously the mechanics and damage would need gearing between the options but it could also act as a 'trainer' for those who do it as 8 man. A loot lockout could be shared between the two but if the loot was the same it would allow people like me, and the OP, to experience end tier content but are unable to commit to 8 man teams.

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That's a great idea too! I'd prefer dedicated four-man raid dungeons, because even traditional 8-man raiders would enjoy the 4-man dungeons, but anything is better than nothing at this point.

As long as it's not put into DF until the next set of Hard Dungeons are added.

They'll only get nerfed otherwise for the 'casuals'.

It should be a different source of endgame. One of the problems I have with this game's "endgame" and why I don't bother with it, is because the single goal post gets pushed back every other patch. I already know that the drops are obsolete and serve no purpose for the 96%+ of the game's content.

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As long as it's not put into DF until the next set of Hard Dungeons are added.

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It could be easily PF'd if it's just four people. Maintaining a static of four like-minded people would be infinitely easier than meeting the demands of a party of 8. No need for the DF.

Make it difficult and less linear than the rest and you got yourself a deal. I would do it, and I know a few others who would as well.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us HARD CONTENT that doesn't require finding and syncing our schedules with seven other people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This. They could even make it so it's similar to void ark and other crystal towers where you can lot 1 item a week allowing people to help out other players in the instances without the whole: "If someone has beaten it you get no/less loot."

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Originally Posted by Thayos

From this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ip_minor_news/

Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us HARD CONTENT that doesn't require finding and syncing our schedules with seven other people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yes please. I want to get back into raiding but my work schedule no longer grants me such a luxury. I hope they seriously consider this. I would even take a 6-man raid if they want to ease into 4-mans.

That's a really good suggestion. I have an irregular schedule and it would definitely make it easier if there were 4 man raids. Right now, I've given up trying thordan EX/ alex savage (until they're DFable) etc cause its just not possible to find 7 other people at the right time to do it and 7 other people who are at the same phase as you.

Caps lock on for emphises

I WANT THIS ADDED!!!!

I would love a full spectrum of content foir all group sizes. This was 1 reason i loved ff11 due to having a spectrum of content. I fully support this.

Yea with my work schedule the 8 man statics never match up with my schedule which has left me with the rest fending for learning party's for end game content T_T which never works out and a lot of ppl don't know what progression mean after they rage quit after dying twice or making up these dumb excuses (I.e. I have to take my dog out) why join progression if you have to leave 15 mins later...

4 man would work well

Add challenge mode dungeons. Same mobs, same maps, just different strats, maybe different pull combos and some changes to boss mechanics without affecting animations too much. Add a timer and achievements for different clear times... With reused content made challenging, it shouldn't take that much time to develop. Hell, use player testing. Many games do PTRs.

Edit: With current naming conventions we could have something like Stone Vigil Extreme or Stone Vigil Savage. Just a more challenging rehash of SV Hard or even SV Normal. Force ilvl sync, make slower clear time achivements easier to get with the best clear time achievements much more difficult. Give a title or something for clearing all of the Extreme Mode 4 Mans with the fastest clear achievements. We don't need a pet or mount or new gear to drop.

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Add challenge mode dungeons. Same mobs, same maps, just different strats, maybe different pull combos and some changes to boss mechanics without affecting animations too much. Add a timer and achievements for different clear times... With reused content made challenging, it shouldn't take that much time to develop. Hell, use player testing. Many games do PTRs.

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This could be a great way to reuse some of the game's older content, for sure... though I'd love it if true dungeon raids weren't so linear, which would require some additional decision making when running these as endgame. Maybe have one route be slightly easier and lead to tomes, while the other route is a little tougher and leads to gear. Endless possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Arrak

Add challenge mode dungeons. Same mobs, same maps, just different strats, maybe different pull combos and some changes to boss mechanics without affecting animations too much. Add a timer and achievements for different clear times... With reused content made challenging, it shouldn't take that much time to develop. Hell, use player testing. Many games do PTRs.

Edit: With current naming conventions we could have something like Stone Vigil Extreme or Stone Vigil Savage. Just a more challenging rehash of SV Hard or even SV Normal. Force ilvl sync, make slower clear time achivements easier to get with the best clear time achievements much more difficult. Give a title or something for clearing all of the Extreme Mode 4 Mans with the fastest clear achievements. We don't need a pet or mount or new gear to drop.

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I've been curious about is what pre-nerf AK and PS (and anything else) were like: bam, we got AK Savage and PS Savage for instant ideas!

I'd love 4 player raids/harder dungeons honestly it would be a really great addition. I don't like how raiding is in this game, I find it boring and honestly just glorified boss/add fights, having to grab 7 other people when I myself have a rotating schedule is just so tiring for a single drop.

I thought there's been a demand for 4-man raids/actual harder 4 man dungeons for a long time now???

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I thought there's been a demand for 4-man raids/actual harder 4 man dungeons for a long time now???

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It has but somehow SE thinks this should take a backstage. Just another reason why they need to expand their development team rather then reallocate resources.

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Originally Posted by Ninster

I've been curious about is what pre-nerf AK and PS (and anything else) were like: bam, we got AK Savage and PS Savage for instant ideas!

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I still don't understand why they removed the bees from from Demon Wall or reduced the damage on Imminent Catastrophe in Anantaboga. Please give us more difficult dungeons SE.

Yes please SE consider 4 man endgame raids like these people speak of.

The game is not all that balanced for 4-man parties. WAR would be the only tank for example. If you're truly talking about HARD, raid tier, content, then those class discrepancies become even more highlighted because of the smaller party size. Some aspects of the encounters would have to be simplified to fit a wider range of different parties, because a light party can't fill all the usual roles. I think SE also mentioned something about not wanting to place all the burden on the single healer in the party, but they say a lot of things...

The challenge mode idea is from WoW. All dungeons have a heroic and challenge setting. Heroic is just max level, harder content. Basically what S/E does with the "hard mode" dungeons. Challenge mode is a more challenging version of the same dungeons. You start out with a barrier preventing you from moving forward and control when the dungeon "begins". Once it begins, a clock starts ticking. The idea is to come up with strategies to either skip trash mobs or find ways to pull them quickly without your tank dying. I quit WoW back in MoP so I'm not sure exactly how the WoD challenge modes were, but I do know that completing them seemed a bit easier. There were four achievements to be gained. Clearing it. Bronze Time. Silver Time. Gold Time. Getting gold in challenge mode was something that only raiders could really accomplish... very well coordinated groups. Getting all Bronze, All Gold etc, each gave you another meta achievement that earned rewards like titles and mounts. This would be fun to have in FFXIV considering everyone already tries to speed pull dungeons. Beef them up and let players figure out the fastest ways to get past trash and clear bosses. And having it based on timed clears doesn't gate it ostracizing non-raiders and lesser skilled players.

Yes please. Hard 4 mans for current ilivl would be nice.

Healers already single heal in 8 man raids anyway.

I've gone into coil, unsynced with some friends who hadn't done coil before. I didn't tell them anything about it, and let them figure things out themselves. Even though it was unsynced, it was just us 4. So it was a bit challenging. But it way very fun.

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Originally Posted by Ninster

I've been curious about is what pre-nerf AK and PS (and anything else) were like: bam, we got AK Savage and PS Savage for instant ideas!

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Pre-nerf AK wasn't really that hard. The 2nd and 3rd bosses were heavy on DPS checks(Gnats on Wall, Statues on final boss). What made pre-nerf PS hard was people trying to ignore mechanics/adds on the first and last bosses.

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Originally Posted by Ehr

I still don't understand why they removed the bees from from Demon Wall or reduced the damage on Imminent Catastrophe in Anantaboga. Please give us more difficult dungeons SE.

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Gnats.

while it would be nice to have a hard dungeon that is not part of the main story there is a reason we can't have nice things.

lets take "The Steps of Faith" for example which when it first came out it was pretty hard for a DF group that refused to work together, which got the hell nerfed out of it at the communities request. the other issue was that it was part of the story

I fear that if SE release anything even a tiny bit hard in a dungeon it will get the crap nerf out of it by community request since no one will do the content.

Yoshida said already no to harder 4 man dungeons, but a maybe to 4 man raids.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

while it would be nice to have a hard dungeon that is not part of the main story there is a reason we can't have nice things.

lets take "The Steps of Faith" for example which when it first came out it was pretty hard for a DF group that refused to work together, which got the hell nerfed out of it at the communities request. the other issue was that it was part of the story

I fear that if SE release anything even a tiny bit hard in a dungeon it will get the crap nerf out of it by community request since no one will do the content.

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Steps was still 8 man, not 4. And considering that story is casual content, it was harder than it should have been, no matter how easy some people thought it was.

If they make four man raids and design it to be difficult from the first place, people know what they are getting into from the start.

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

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you are correct it was a 8 man trial not a 4 man dungeon also Step was quite easy pre-nerf if the group communicated
a better example would be Amdapor keep normal which was also nerf (admittedly after some time to fit it in with the DR)


If SE does a hard dungeon as long as SE doesn't make it part of the MSQ and leave it un-nerf for at least 3 main patches it will be fine

Something to do next to Alex Savage would be highly appreciated.
I have just realised that I am either raiding, crafting food and pots for raid or afk waiting for raid lately.. so bring it.

I'm an unlikely supporter of this since I don't really do raid content but I would definitely consider it if it was 4-man. Like many others have said, getting 8 people together is often hard but ith 4 you could quickly get a group together to practise, improve and eventually clear.

It should definitely not be dungeons though. I quit for about 6 months after ARR release because of the hatred and abuse people spewed in AK and I definitely don't want that to return.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

If SE does a hard dungeon as long as SE doesn't make it part of the MSQ and leave it un-nerf for at least 3 main patches it will be fine

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Will not work with daily roulettes, regardless if it is part of MSQ or not (see Sirius).
The chance for a 4 man raid is higher (that is seperat from the daily dungeons) than a difficult 4 man dungeon

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Gnats.

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Bah, habits. People I played with always called them bees for whatever reason.

These could also be done in the style of Nyzul Isle in FFXI. The only downside to that is that method really encourages statics, and for me, a big draw toward four-person raid dungeons would be accessibility. Strongly encouraging people to join statics by limiting accessibility could be counter-productive.

Anyone ever try fractals in GW2? I never got around to those, but I heard those were essentially small-group raid dungeons. Anything from that system worth taking?

I wouldn't want something with savage difficulty, since that is just team jump rope...and not really fun to me, but I would be all for actual dynamic, challenging content ^^

we had one hard ... they nerf it because people wined.


Making content for 1% of players will never work.

I'm down for this as well as long as they are not just DPS checks.

As I was reading this thread the first thought that came to mind was the FFXI Nyzul Isle, type of dungeon would be perfect. Because it was meant for a small party it was random and it involved strength but also coordination with your party to solve the floor rules.

I think this is something that 14 would definitely enjoy. Obviously not the same exact copy but something similar I think everyone would enjoy.

Hard 4-Man CONTENT. Not just dungeons.