I have not played war since 1.x. I got both it and pld to 50 and was on war a lot to farm but never did much tanking.
Haven't touched in yet in 2.0 and have been hesitant to do so since its at 50, I have no idea how it works and I do not want to be one of those people that just joins a pt without a clue about how their job functions. No interest at all in pld or drk.
What's the best piece of advice you could give for a war basically starting at 50.
Warrior, whats your best advice?
Printable View
-
11-19-2015, 05:57 PMMicahZerrshiaWarrior, whats your best advice?
-
11-19-2015, 06:23 PMAshkendor
As long as you're holding hate in dungeons and using defensive cooldowns appropriately, the rest is gravy. You have plenty of time to re-familiarize yourself with the class as you level and learn how to incorporate the new skills into your gameplay. Honestly, the way that it plays doesn't even change all that much till you get Fell Cleave at level 54. Your best bet is to look over the tooltips for your skills. If you aren't confident enough to do a dungeon at first, go run some FATEs and take a stab at holding hate. Nobody really cares if you can hold aggro at a FATE (with the possible exception of NM FATEs) so if you mess up it's no big deal.
-
11-19-2015, 09:55 PMNorthernLadMSP
I'm at WAR level 46 now. Just out of curiosity, how does the job change with Fell Cleave?
-
11-19-2015, 11:35 PMDonjoIt serves as a major step in lining up playing in Defiance with playing out of Defiance. In both cases you will now be building and spending stacks. Combined with the stacks switching with your current stance, it ends up making Warrior easier to play than it used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
In all actuality, though, all Fell Cleave does is trick Warriors into thinking they're DPS. In the middle of a Job Quest chain that's trying to tell them to focus on Protecting instead of Destroying XD -
11-19-2015, 11:59 PMFreyyy
My best advice is : wreck shit but don't forget your tankiness. Get STR, stance-dance, but use your motherfucking defensive cooldowns accordingly, otherwise you're not worthy of the Axe. Be a Warrior.
Some advices :
WAR has different very good synergies between offensive and defensive abilities in his kit to increase both his tankiness AND his DPS at the same time without sacrificing anything. Read all the tooltips and figure these synergies out. I also highly recommend you to check out Xenosys Vex's guide which is full of very good and reliable informations about the job and how to properly play it. He also speaks about the different synergies in the video.
Basic advices :
- Keep Maim & Storm's Eye up as a priority. Use Storm's Path only if you feel that you need the 10% mitigation. Butcher's Block is both your highest damage combo AND your threat combo, so you can very easily hold aggro while doing your highest single target DPS rotation in Deliverance (Alternating Storm's Eye and Butcher's Block).
- Use and refresh Fracture. The trait makes it pretty powerful on WAR.
- If you need very heavy mitigation for whatever reason, don't rely on Foresight alone. It's garbage. 20% Physical defense is not 20% damage reduction at all.
- Don't keep your stacks, the passive bonus they give is absolute garbage compared to what spending them grants you. The only GCDs where you can keep your 5 stacks without DPS loss are GCDs that don't grant stacks (Heavy Swing, Fracture, Overpower). It's then a benefit. (Refreshing Fracture with 5 Abandon stacks or using Heavy Swing with 5 Abandon stacks right before spending them on Fell Cleave and continuing your combo are both a DPS increase in the case you got your 5th stack with a combo-ender only, for example).
- Bloodbath has the exact same cooldown as Berserk. Always use them together.
Edit :
Destroying your enemies before they can do any form of harm to you or your friends is the best way to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
-
11-20-2015, 12:10 AMNorthernLadMSP
Another question for all the awesome warriors out there: How do you set up your hot bars when playing on controller?
Do you have one bar for tank stance and a totally different (but almost identical save a few skills) DPS stance, and a third for defensive cool downs? -
11-20-2015, 12:31 AMJamillionNo, I use a macro that swaps defiance and deliverance skills. I also recently started using extended cross hotbars which is a great time saver though it takes some getting used toQuote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
-
11-20-2015, 12:44 AMDonjoNot if performing the task requires that you make yourself easier to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
-
11-20-2015, 12:46 AMJamillion
In regards to dpsing as a warrior, I was doing 951 dps on a 3 minute parse at ilvl 190 so don't be surprised to see yourself topping parses as OT
-
11-20-2015, 12:50 AMbounddreamer
My advice to fresh 50 warriors: run dungeons. Run lots and lots of dungeons. Get to know all your cooldowns so well you can combo in your sleep. Know what all your mitigation does. Figure out the best way to spend your stacks depending on different encounters and party composition. Just really get to know all your skills and cooldowns on a muscle memory level. And it only gets more fun after 50!
-
11-20-2015, 01:07 AMbounddreamerYeah, but good Warriors know when to use Defiance, when to use Deliverance, and when to stance dance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
-
11-20-2015, 01:13 AMNorthernLadMSPOh, that sounds interesting? Does it swap both your stance and the stance only skills in one button press?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamillion
-
11-20-2015, 01:16 AMNorthernLadMSP
Sorry my first sentence shouldn't have had a ? but I'm on my phone and it won't allow me to edit.
-
11-20-2015, 01:26 AMJamillionYeah, I'm on mobile too, it's a nightmare now lol. And yep, you got it, one macro turns on defiance and maps inner beast and steel cyclone where I want, the other turns on deliverance and maps fell cleave and decimate to those same keys. It's pretty sweet, I'll post them when I get home if I rememberQuote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
-
11-20-2015, 01:28 AMFallenWings
--------------------------------
/micon "Deliverance"
/ac "Deliverance" <me>
/hotbar Action "Fell Cleave" 1 8
/hotbar Action "Decimate" 2 3
--------------------------------
/micon "Defiance"
/ac "Defiance" <me>
/hotbar Action "Inner Beast" 1 8
/hotbar Action "Steel Cyclone" 2 3
---------------------------------
An example of the Stance Macro that switches your stance skills.
Fell Cleave and Inner Beast occupy the same hotbar slot and pressing the respective macro will put you into the stance and replace the slot with the appropriate skill. -
11-20-2015, 01:28 AMFreyyyAs long as you don't die, being harder to kill doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
-
11-20-2015, 01:43 AMNorthernLadMSPThat sounds awesome!! I would really appreciate it if you would post the macro!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamillion
-
11-20-2015, 01:49 AMJamillionLooks like fallenwings beat me to it but here's a reference chart from reddit since you're on a gamepad.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
LT(L2) + ← = LDL(LD1)
LT(L2) + ↑ = LDU(LD2)
LT(L2) + → = LDR(LD3)
LT(L2) + ↓ = LDD(LD4)
LT(L2) + X(□) = LAL(LA1)
LT(L2) + Y(△) = LAU(LA2)
LT(L2) + B(〇) = LAR(LA3)
LT(L2) + A(Ｘ) = LAD(LA4)
RT(R2) + ← = RDL(RD1)
RT(R2) + ↑ = RDU(RD2)
RT(R2) + → = RDR(RD3)
RT(R2) + ↓ = RDD(RD4)
RT(R2) + X(□) = RAL(RA1)
RT(R2) + Y(△) = RAU(RA2)
RT(R2) + B(〇) = RAR(RA3)
RT(R2) + A(Ｘ) = RAD(RA4)
Example:
/micon "Defiance"
/ac "Defiance" <me>
/crosshotbar action "Inner Beast" 1 RDU
/micon "Deliverance"
/ac "Deliverance" <me>
/crosshotbar action "Fell Cleave" 1 RDU -
11-20-2015, 01:52 AMFallenWings
Before people get confused and/or start preaching the above line without the full context.
Tanks do not completely dismiss their defensive capabilities. The only ones to consider dropping are the ones that directly conflict with our other significant duty: contributing to damage.
So pretty much just Tank Stances and Vit accessories. -
11-20-2015, 02:57 AMDonjoThat... is an exceedingly selfish mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
-
11-20-2015, 03:08 AMkarateorangutangGonna shamelessly piggyback off this post. It's all good information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
Try to use your more powerful cooldowns at the beginning portion of a trash pull if your gonna pop a cooldown as well. You'll get the most mileage out of your cooldown that way.
-Bloodbath and Berserk is very powerful on bosses, but on long trash pulls with alot of mobs pairing both of those or just bloodbath with vengeance will give your healer alot of wiggle room to get their nukes/ DoT's up.
-Fracture used to be a TP issue, but with access to equilibrium that is considerably lessened. Don't bother using it on a trash pull though, AoE attacks will take priority there until your down to less than 3 mobs.
-Everything else is just getting a feel for when is the right time to use Deliverance. As you gear up and play more you'll get an clearer understanding of that timing. -
11-20-2015, 03:31 AMKuwagamiyou're now a dps and if you try to play otherwise you'll be called out as a bad tank. meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
-
11-20-2015, 03:34 AMFreyyyThat's how this game works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
-
11-20-2015, 04:06 AMDonjoNo, that's how too much of the game's community works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
-
11-20-2015, 04:14 AMFreyyy
Yeah, okay.
-
11-20-2015, 04:35 AMLan_Mantear
Don't hesitate. Be fearless.
-
11-20-2015, 04:57 AMbounddreamerAs long as the healer is okay with it too, it's not selfish. It's good gameplay. I've had two regular healers as a tank. One of them eggs me on to bigger pulls, more damage, and stands around spamming holy if I don't pull big enough for him. The other freaks out if my health drops below half and prefers I do smaller, safer pulls. With the first healer I can run a dungeon in full deliverance, with the second I only stance dance on bosses. So there has to be an assessment of your healers capabilities and comfort level, whether you're in DF or a premade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
But, truly, what I hear from all kinds of healers is so long as no one dies, it's all good. And if the tank needs more heals but they're doing more damage than the healer could in CS, that's also good. I clock around 1k easily in expert dungeons. My healer can do around 400 if dpsing. It's an easy choice as to which of us should be on which stance. -
11-20-2015, 05:38 AMDonjoExactly. As long as people recognize that they're part of a team and that everything they do affects their teammates too, playing in a purely selfish manner can be avoided.Quote:
Originally Posted by bounddreamer
-
11-20-2015, 06:21 AMRalvenomExcept it doesn't make you easier to kill, really...Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Unless you're the guy who never uses CDs, that is...
No, it's not. Because doing more dps means things die more quickly, which means less dmg taken and less healing needed. If it bothers you that SE is actually confirming the idea that WAR are the tank that makes the perfect OT, then go play a PLD or DRK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
No, a bad tank is the guy who doesn't know how/when to use CDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
Advice:
Learn to use your cooldowns. Cooldowns are your bread & butter. Nothing makes it easier in a dungeon (for EVERYONE) than being the tank who goes, "LOL! WHAT DAMAGE?!". If you use 2-4 CDs per pull, you'll have several more still available. Plus, chances are, half the CDs you use will be up before the next pull anyway. -
11-20-2015, 06:56 AMKuwagamimeh. Raiding as a WAR is "use all your CDs for the tank buster and never leave dps stance"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralvenom
In dungeons, CDs are useless as soon as you have 15 ilevel more than the minimum to enter. Unless you do the "all room pulls" but they usually aren't the fastest ones anyway as you give up a lot of tank and healer dps.
We're no tank anymore. We're glorified dps.
Hopefully SE will fix their crap at some point in the future. -
11-20-2015, 06:59 AMExodus_Kenpachi
Best advice? Hmmm...
Learn, memorize, and ALWAYS do triple zerk Fell Cleave + 2 Fracture combo.
Push your DPS always. That is your main utility as WAR...
Never drop Eye, maim, or Fracture.... Ever.... For any reason.
Use Equilibrium on CD while OTing.
Don't forget that you have defensive CDs while OTing that double as DPS tools. If you dont need them use them to increase your DPS. -
11-21-2015, 01:34 AMMerkavaProper raiding with WAR is understanding the enemies rotation, stance dancing into defiance and Inner Beast + a Cooldown whenever the tank buster (or high damage phase) gets in the way. Being a good WAR requires you to have a certain degree of knowledge of the fight, hence why its probably the most difficult tank class to master. But a WAR that just stays in DPS stance and never changes back to defiance at ALL? If we assume this is a difficult raid then that's bad tanking. If its some of the easier encounters and cooldowns are used properly then there is nothing wrong with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
Actually no, WAR is easily the sturdiest tank when dealing with large pulls (far more than Paladin or Dark Knight) as he can almost freely DPS while remaining in DPS stance and heal himself at the same time (I'll elaborate on that later).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
WAR is not only a good DPS but also a great tank in the hands of a capable player. There is a good reason people are crying out "WAR OP!" people who think that WAR is less sturdy just don't know how to use them properly. WARs sinergy with its own skills is just too darn good atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
In regards to the original TCs question, I'd like to offer up a few advice as well:
- Bloodbath + Berserk is an incredibly broken Combo. This is specially true during large pulls. Once you hit level 52 (and gain Deliverance) you can activate the following skills: Bloodbath, Berzerk, Inner Release, Infuriate (for extra critical hits) and switch into Deliverance and proceed to just SPAM overpower. You will easily heal yourself 2k+ HP every swing (on top of any regen and fairy heal) allowing a properly geared warrior to practically take care of themselves for the 20 seconds berzerk is activated. The raw amount of mitigation this offers easily outclasses what any of the other two tanks can do. Healers will easily find themselves with enough time to DPS, save only for the more extreme pulls. You should be able to easily break the 1K DPS mark, keep the healer DPS healty and, assuming the DPS are doing their job, easily clear most mobs by the time zerk runs out (or at least near death). Using Decimate (level 60 skill) before berserk expires is just the cherry on the top.
- Every pull should START in Defiance, only switch to Deliverance once you've established emnity and are confident in your healer vs the current damage you're suffering (this takes practice).
- When in dungeons use your cooldowns, don't just wait until you get to the boss as you'll probably have them back by then anyway. Your first pull? Pop in Bloodbath + Berzerk, Next pull? Vengeance, Next one? Raw Intuition + Awareness. Next One? Thrill of Battle + Convalscene, etc. Rotate them, don't just let them rest in your hotbar without use.
- Unchained is INCREDIBLY good when trying to establish emnity against bosses, always start a boss pull in Defiance with Unchained activated, you're never going to loose emnity even to the best DPS.
- Raw Intuition (level 56 skill) and Awareness (level 34 Paladin Cross skill) have incredibly good synergy, it's a great idea to use them together during large pulls (when other cooldowns aren't available).
- Inner beast is an insanely useful skill but requires you to know the bosses rotation when trying to properly use it. A good WAR will know when the tank buster is coming BEFORE it comes in order to prepare stacks, switch to Defiance and pop in Inner Beast + a cooldown whenever the tank buster hits, mitigating massive amount of damage every single time.
- Always use Mercy Stroke when its available, its hard to get the kill hit with it (don't rely on it) but its a DPS gain, so just pop it when you can.
- Same goes Brutal Swing, as long as stun is not needed against the mob or boss.
- Thrill of Battle + Convalscene is 20 seconds of Defiance without having to be in defiance (hint: Deliverance) or double defiance when you're in a pinch.
- Vengeance and Raw Intuition give a stack for your currently active stance, this can be important when trying to get the most out of berzerk as its possible to unleash a Triple Fell Cleave by burning one of them. If you burn both in one go you can Triple Fell and pop it up with Fracture. This is probably only a good idea when OTing or during 4 man dungeon runs (as bosses are really gentle in those).
Also...
I kinda half agree and disagree with this. Up until level 54 (when you get Fell Cleave), keeping fracture up is without a doubt a DPS gain. When you, however, gain Fell Cleave fracture is easily a DPS loss since you are delaying Fell Cleave and fracture "only" has 300 Potency (with trait) versus Fell Cleaves 500 potency. This doesn't mean that Fracture is entirely useless. It should still be used when you use Berzerk (always use it when you have max stacks of Abandon) since you're trying to squeeze as much DPS as possible within that window and Fracture becomes a DPS gain. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
Edit: I might be wrong about this, reading the post below mine.
Aside from that Freyyy's post is pretty much spot on.
...That's what comes to mind atm. -
11-21-2015, 02:03 AMDonjoActually, people have done the math and Fracture is still a DPS gain when used in Deliverance. It's just a much smaller DPS gain than it is in Defiance. This renders it vitally important for you to get the most out of Fracture every single time you use it. Only use it if you will get all of its ticks, and never let Storm's Eye fall off as a result of its use. This will require that sometimes you do two consecutive Storm's Eye combos, but this does not stop Fracture from being a gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava
Screwing up Fracture in either of the two above ways may result in a net DPS loss over a rotation that ignores the skill entirely. It's another one of those skills that gain effectiveness in accordance to one's comfort level in a fight. -
11-21-2015, 02:09 AMMerkavaAh, Thank you for the input. I'll try it out and see how it works for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Edit: Would you have any source for the math? If possible I'd like to check it out myself out of simple curiosity. -
11-21-2015, 02:28 AMDonjoI don't remember the exact source, but it was simple average potency calculations. Fracture is, when all of its ticks come through, a 300 potency attack. Fell Cleave is the only attack Warrior has that exceeds this number, but it cannot be used very often. This means that the average potency per minute of a Warrior's rotations is always below 300 even though Fell Cleave exists. Adding the 300 Potency Fracture will therefore raise the average ppm, thus proving it to be a DPS gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava
And that's the short-form proof :P -
11-21-2015, 02:52 AMRalvenomIf you don't understand how to read a boss encounter and how that caters to raid experience, that's your fault. It is NOT JUST about that. There's more to it than that, so stop oversimplifying things in a thread where the OP was asking tips to help him/her learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
-
11-21-2015, 05:29 AMMerkava
Before I forget, every topic like this should probably include A link to Xeno's Tanking guide (click me).
-
11-21-2015, 06:14 AMFreyyyThere is one on the first page lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Merkava
-
11-21-2015, 06:55 AMKuwagamiheh, what do I know ? I have only been up to AS3 after all. The only times I ever had to switch to tank stance (besides helping healers to have more dps than what I could do in the 10 seconds of stance CD) were AS2 last wave (double widow + doll) and AS3 hand phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralvenom
Because when you "learn" those fights, you quickly figure that the damage you take is ridiculously low.
Even in 2.X, as a war you were hardly using your tank stance, if at all.