Esuna on Warrior?

Big deal or no? They pacify themselves, if it is a big deal I can make the effort to do it but its only a few seconds and depending on the timing of my esuna it may not even matter or it will just be a second or two. Honestly I'd rather just keep up my healing/DPS instead of worrying about it. Thoughts?

As a healer myself, I will take care of it if I have the spare time, but if I don't (and Selene doesn't just do it for me) I don't consider it a major issue. I recall a conversation a while back where some say they wanted it because they needed to be able to keep doing damage, while others used it as their break to recover some TP, but I have no idea how Heavensward changed that; I imagine that OTs would prefer to be esuna'd so they can keep attacking, but I'm not so sure how needed it is.

It depends, in dungeons/midcore contents it's fine to ignore it or if under circumstances where you can't remove it immediately (like having to dodge or under casting/cooldown). However the warrior will lose 1-2 GCD so in difficult contents where high DPS is required maybe you could time with your warrior and esuna it right away.

Since it's Pacification, oGCD and spell skills can still be use. I play a warrior too so whenever the healer's not getting it removed I will either use Brutal Swing/Mercy Stroke when they're up or Flash to maintain aggro.

Here is my official healer answer: You see me casting Aero III? That is worth more than your few seconds of Pacify. Use Brutal Swing oGCD in that time.

To those who make annoying macros: Stop blasting our ears.

Plus there is SCH Selene, and if your BRD is good, they will use Warden's Paeon on the pull.

I main WAR and never expect Pacification to be cleansed. If the healers cleanse it too early, their spells will have a "no effect" -pop on the screen (been trying to snipe-time this many times myself when healing, just for fun, and I used to main a healer from 2.0 to 3.0), even if it seemed timely. If they try to cleanse it "reactively" and normally, my Pacification will already be in the 2s by the time their cast lands. In essence, I think healers can make better use of their GCDs than cleanse it.

The exception is Selene with Fey Caress. It's good to keep an eye on a WAR as a SCH and hit it to save the WAR some DPS (assuming you don't need to use it on anything else anyway).

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Originally Posted by technole

Here is my official healer answer: You see me casting Aero III? That is worth more than your few seconds of Pacify. Use Brutal Swing oGCD in that time.

To those who make annoying macros: Stop blasting our ears.

Plus there is SCH Selene, and if your BRD is good, they will use Warden's Paeon on the pull.

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My only answer to this, and not to you personally poster, is that as someone who secondary mains WAR, I think I can only recall one time when a BRD gave me Warden on a pull, most other times I see them give it to a WAR, the WAR has no idea how to use that buff or they just mistime it.

It's situational, if my party needs immediate healing just as pacification hits then I am going to prioritize the party.
I always try to remove pacification, some tanks use macros with a timer to signal when it will start (I rarely see them now, maybe that trend died?) and it helps, but when I come across at some angry and demanding macros I happily continue to heal/DPS ignoring them.

I only do it if the time permits...which in regular content I can easily do it but if I'm healing like my life depends on it (thordan ex) then sorry warrior senpai plz understand Esuna of any variation is on the GCD which can easily cause a death :/

No needed since my Selene can auto-esuna.

Other healer? no needed too.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

I think I can only recall one time when a BRD gave me Warden on a pull

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I thought they changed warden early on so that it didn't prevent a warrior's Berserk pacification? It's a 3 second cast, so I don't see why a bard should waste slightly more than a single GCD so that a warrior doesn't lose slightly more than a single GCD.

But yeah, basically every class that can do something about my 5 second pacification could probably contribute MORE to DPS by doing something else at that moment. The only time I expect it is if I have a lazy healer who isn't even attempting to dps.

If you play warrior enough, you learn to deal with that 5 seconds, and you can plan ahead.

Edit:
From 3.01 Patch notes
An issue wherein the effect "Pacification", granted by the marauder ability "Berserk", could not be removed by the bard action “The Warden's Paean”.

Guess I read that wrong when patch notes were released, I thought they were REMOVING the functionality, but they actually ADDED it. Well, since pacification from berserk is the only predictable debuff for most encounters, I guess it makes sense to throw it on the warrior. That being said, it needs to be cast AFTER berserk is activated (30 second duration for both buffs), and if I'm already wailing on an enemy, I would prefer a bard to just do damage. I don't pop berserk 3 seconds before I start attacking like some people.

It really doesn't matter - if the healer wants to do it, great, but it's not expected at all, and they would probably do more dps casting something else.

And to people saying "use brutal swing during pacification!" - that is dumb, why wouldn't you use it when you have berserk up lol

I will esuna it as soon as I see it.
5 seconds not being to do anything could mean death
I take no chances. I have the spell, its there.. I will use it

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Originally Posted by Twilite

I will esuna it as soon as I see it.
5 seconds not being to do anything could mean death
I take no chances. I have the spell, its there.. I will use it

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I'm sorry, if the Warrior not being able to use most skills for 5 seconds is death, the healer certainly has better things to do than to esuna it.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

My only answer to this, and not to you personally poster, is that as someone who secondary mains WAR, I think I can only recall one time when a BRD gave me Warden on a pull, most other times I see them give it to a WAR, the WAR has no idea how to use that buff or they just mistime it.

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As a bard main I will ask war's I run with regulary when they pop beserk. When they tell me N-GCDs in I just go... ohh so warden's is useless for you at that point then. If I do see a war poping it among the first things though if we wipe I'll try and put it on them duing the pull timer.

My dps spells will more likely be more effective than those 5 seconds. If I can I will but I have a lot more things I would rather put first.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Big deal or no?

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No. If 5 seconds is going to make or break raid wide dps then I think you have bigger issues to worry about. Also BRD can use Wanderer's Paean ahead of time. I commend any brd that does this.

Not your priority

In regards to if it is worth it or not:

Single Target

Aero III (1GCD) MP Cost 707 = 370 Pot. 407 True Pot.

Esuna (1GCD) MP Cost 619 or 0 = 2 Warrior GCD's (Usually Heavy Swing > Maim/Sunder) = 340/350(150+190/200) Pot. 459/472.5 True Pot.

Multi Target

Aero III = 407*X True Pot.

Esuna = Overpower x2 = 300*X True Pot.

TLDR(???): Not necessary if you don't value absolute min-maxing.

I agree that if the WAR has an issue for 5 seconds, he really should be worrying about something else than this tiny debuff being on for 5 seconds.

If I see it and have time, I will remove it. If the guy has an annoying makro and it is just a normal dungeon run, I will ignore it (unless I feel like being nice).

Seriously, I never had a good WAR die from Pacification. If he sucks that much he will be dead before it kicks in anyway and can find a different party to annoy.

It realy depends most of the time if a WAR needs the esuna/leech, they ask for it or use the macro, otherwise, I do not pay any attention to it. Aside from FC members, I have never seen anyone ask for a esuna.
For me it depends on:
- Am I busy healing? If the answer is Yes, no esuna for the warrior.
- Am I doing alot of dps, because there is a dps check? Then I wont use esuna on the warrior.
- Do I have enough MP to use the esuna on the warrior? If the answer is NO, then I iwll not use esuna on the warrior.

Otherwise, I do not see any reason to not use the esuna, the skill is there, so why not use it?

I don't even have a macro for it, honestly. I don't main warrior (and I don't play it at endgame right now but am thinking of switching) but I have been playing it quite a bit since I got it to 60 and I just don't see the point. If the healers see it in time they take it off me, but if not it's no big. The only time I could see a real problem is if the warrior was pacified when they had to pick up an add, but that's a timing issue rather than a cleansing issue. Other than that, it's just losing a couple of GCD's worth of DPS.

As a healer, I dislike the obnoxious multi-sound macros that some warriors make to scream bloody murder about that 5 second debuff and I usually ignore them. One line with a sound, cool. Ten lines counting down with repeated sound spam, you can gtfo.

If the WAR has the right SkS and is able to fit a 9th GCD during Berserk, he will most of the time be pacified as soon as he used the very last attack, thus having his GCD running during the first ~2.45 seconds of pacification, thus leaving only ~2.65 seconds of effective pacification. Not worth dispelling. In the case the WAR doesn't have enough SkS tho and is pacified right before being able to use this 9th GCD, meaning that the pacification starts ~2.46 seconds after his last attack, he's effectively not attacking for ~7.46 sec because of the pacification, thus making it super worth dispelling. Every good WAR will prioritize having enough SkS to fit the 9th GCD before anything else in terms of secondary stats.

In PUGs, you shouldn't bother dispelling. If the WAR is a friend of you or in your static or something like that, you should talk about it with him. If he wants you to dispell it, do it but first prioritize healing. If someone dies because you're Esuna-ing your WAR, it's not worth it. I personally don't care at all about being dispelled since I have the SkS and just missing 1 GCD of damage after having unleashed hell on everything with 50% more attack power doesn't bother me that much.

The Berserk macro is a godsend when I'm on Bard. Makes it much easier to time Paean on them. It's a shame not a lot actually use it (without the sound effects, of course).

As a main war, I just use the "annoying macro" in Savage, then my healers can remove the debuff (I don't know how they would do more dps with a single spell than me during 5 s).
Outside of Savage, I just don't mind.

One day pacification will no longer be dispellable and problem solved... One day.

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Originally Posted by EdgeFayth

As a main war, I just use the "annoying macro" in Savage, then my healers can remove the debuff (I don't know how they would do more dps with a single spell than me during 5 s).
Outside of Savage, I just don't mind.

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During 5 sc, I can cast bio², bio and energy drain. Maybe even aero. Sorry but I can do more than a single spell during these 5 seconds. Even on savage it's pretty useless outside of Selene esuna or peon on pull.

Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Khyan

During 5 sc, I can cast bio², bio and energy drain. Maybe even aero. Sorry but I can do more than a single spell during these 5 seconds. Even on savage it's pretty useless outside of Selene esuna or peon on pull.

Deal with it.

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The difference is that Healer gives up only 1 second GCD (2.5 but at least you can weave still) vs a War who is giving up 5 seconds. I'll let Selene handle it if her CD is up but the tradeoff isn't 5 seconds for 5 seconds its 2.5 seconds for 5 seconds, but as others have said a 9 GCD is only going to allow 1 during the middle of it and 1 at the end of it.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

In regards to if it is worth it or not:

Single Target

Aero III (1GCD) MP Cost 707 = 370 Pot. 407 True Pot.

Esuna (1GCD) MP Cost 619 or 0 = 2 Warrior GCD's (Usually Heavy Swing > Maim/Sunder) = 340/350(150+190/200) Pot. 459/472.5 True Pot.

Multi Target

Aero III = 407*X True Pot.

Esuna = Overpower x2 = 300*X True Pot.

TLDR(???): Not necessary if you don't value absolute min-maxing.

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So warriors have no abilities to use while they are pacified? You have to subtract what they could have been doing if they still had the debuff to your calculations.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

The difference is that Healer gives up only 1 second GCD (2.5 but at least you can weave still) vs a War who is giving up 5 seconds. I'll let Selene handle it if her CD is up but the tradeoff isn't 5 seconds for 5 seconds its 2.5 seconds for 5 seconds, but as others have said a 9 GCD is only going to allow 1 during the middle of it and 1 at the end of it.

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Realistically, the chance of the healer's GCD lining up for perfect timing to cleanse pacify is slim. The healer might need to delay their cast by .5 a second or more to line up with Berserk ending, which is more time lost for the healer, and the timing to cleanse all 5 seconds is just too tight to stress over, considering if you cast too early, it misses the pacify and everyone ends up in the negative. The "2 for 1" thought is a pretty lofty ideal, and comes closer to trading a single GCD with the WAR. They might eke out more DPS with that one GCD, but if it's breaking your healing or DPS rhythm, it's that much more likely you'll come out neutral. I can't see that it's a big deal whether they're cleansed or not, so long as the healer remains productive all the while.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

Realistically, the chance of the healer's GCD lining up for perfect timing to cleanse pacify is slim. The healer might need to delay their cast by .5 a second or more to line up with Berserk ending, which is more time lost for the healer, and the timing to cleanse all 5 seconds is just too tight to stress over, considering if you cast too early, it misses the pacify and everyone ends up in the negative. The "2 for 1" thought is a pretty lofty ideal, and comes closer to trading a single GCD with the WAR. They might eke out more DPS with that one GCD, but if it's breaking your healing or DPS rhythm, it's that much more likely you'll come out neutral. I can't see that it's a big deal whether they're cleansed or not, so long as the healer remains productive all the while.

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Yep. xD Thats why its something I save Fey Caress for. @.@

I always try to time it so I can help the WAR and remove it but I guess lag or w.e, I'll cast to remove it as soon as it pops, then nothing. So end up casting a 2nd time but then he only had like 1-2 secs meaning, to me, it was a waste of time. Sucks more so when you try to be that healer who notices the Berserk countdown and try to clear it just as it pops up.

As a frequent warrior. IDGAF if i get cleansed or not. That's why i don't have a macro.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

My only answer to this, and not to you personally poster, is that as someone who secondary mains WAR, I think I can only recall one time when a BRD gave me Warden on a pull, most other times I see them give it to a WAR, the WAR has no idea how to use that buff or they just mistime it.

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Paean lasts 30 seconds while berserk lasts 20. That means they have a 10 second window to cast berserk after I put the shield on them. So yeah, it usually gets mistimed. The 3 second cast time also means that casting it any other time than right before pull probably isn't worth it as well. :/

As whm, I try to dispel it if I can. It doesn't take priority over healing or other debuffs, though.

I play both healer and WAR and it is all dependent on what is happening.

100% of the responsibility rests on the WAR player to time Berserk appropriately so they don't end up Pacified when they need to get aggro or pick up adds.


For the healer, if it's between somebody dying and dispelling Pacification, obviously the dispel is not happening.
A more complicated situation is if both the healer and WAR are DPSing, then it comes down to "is casting Esuna a group DPS increase over just using my GCD to cast Broil/Stone3 etc." and that's dependent on too many variables to really say.

As a healer I dispel Pacification when I can, but when I play my WAR it doesn't really bother me if it doesn't get dispelled. It helps a lot of healers if you make a macro that tells the party when Berserk is about to wear off, please dispel Pacification if you can, etc.

This has been said a hundred times probably.

When i smack berserk on WAR it is on me whether to deal with the effects. If I get one then awesome, if not then it's really not a big deal. I don't macro it because the macro hinders the performance of the ability itself, so its not a good tradeoff to get get a possible esuna instead of increased performance on the button.

Bottom line: Pacification from Berserk is on the WAR and noone else. If you feel charitable... then you'll probably get my commendation.

Nope. And let me tell you about this WAR I had some weeks ago in A1 who SPAMMED his Berserk macro. BERSERK PLEASE CLEANSE ME IN 5 SECONDS <annoying sound 102837464>.

Needless to say I told him never ever to use that macro again and he never got cleanse from me or other healer.

As a warrior, I don't want you to waste your time or MP on removing Pacification. It's five seconds. Half the time when you get an esuna off, it's already gone. I don't have a macro for Berserk because I really don't care if you remove it or not. If you do, awesome; if you don't, I know you had better things to do.

As a healer, I remove it when I can. But it's not my first priority.

If I see it up and I'm not actively casting anything else (e.g. a big cure on another person or even the tank) - then I will gladly remove it.

Otherwise you're just going to have to pout and then pick up in 5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

As a warrior, I don't want you to waste your time or MP on removing Pacification. It's five seconds. Half the time when you get an esuna off, it's already gone. I don't have a macro for Berserk because I really don't care if you remove it or not. If you do, awesome; if you don't, I know you had better things to do.

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My Warrior Approves this message; More often than not my Brutal Swing is OGC and RI is up to spend those measly 5 secs eeking out a bit of damage and building a stack. I miss nothing.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

So warriors have no abilities to use while they are pacified? You have to subtract what they could have been doing if they still had the debuff to your calculations.

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Those oGCD abilities (Brutal Swing and Mercy Stroke) would be used anyway.

Mercy Stroke should have been used during Berserk unless your timing is off, that leaves Brutal Swing.

Brutal Swing does not affect how many GCD skills you fire off. With or without Brutal Swing 5 seconds is 2 GCD skills. If you are holding on to Brutal Swing to have it during Pacification you are doing it wrong.

Regardless of that, it isn't a big deal to remove it or leave it. You've just built up a ton of hate if you're tanking, if adds spawn you still have Flash and Provoke.