Diadem NEEDS Tweaking

So I've done a few missions now and had some time to form some opinions, good and bad. First, the good.

The Diadem is fun. Just flat out fun. There's something so cathartic about a huge mob of people murdering the heck out of everything that crosses their path. The brachiosaurus in particular is an epic, epic fight. And it's a nice, easy (relatively) way to bang out some esoterics. ...When it works.

But that's only when it works.

• The damage threshold to get credit on higher ranked mobs -- specifically V's and stars -- is way too high. Way too high. If your group is down even one person, you will not get credit on V's and stars, and even IV's can be iffy.
  
• Needing to attune to aether currents every time you go in. Specifically this is bad because it often ends up being an "every man for himself" situation. Those that are lucky enough to avoid aggroing mobs -- or who take advantage of their party members trying to be helpful and grabbing threat -- run off to grab the currents on their own and leave the others in the lurch.
  
• Leeches. The ones who go off to gather and leave the rest of their party in the lurch, but still get to roll on what chests the group is able to earn, which is few because, again, the damage threshold is punishingly high.
  
• The two hour lockout. When the above three points combine and a group falls apart, it feels like a punishment for something that isn't even your fault.

Now, I understand the high damage threshold is there specifically because of my second and third points; it's trying to prevent people from taking advantage of others' work. But when all those things are happening at once, it makes the Diadem a pretty miserable experience, not worth the time, effort, or aggravation.

ETA: If you're going to make it a requirement for a full party of 8 people all playing their best to get credit on higher ranked mobs, at least let us replenish our ranks if/when someone drops early in the mission.

If you want a game based around an RNG grind for gear progression and the thrill of killing a mass of mobs why not just play Diablo 1/2/3 or any of its imitators. Path of Exile is free to play. $15 a month for an end game that mimics that experience albeit poorly isn't a great state of affairs for me.

The problems you listed are all alleviated by doing diadem in premades.

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Originally Posted by PocketFox

So I've done a few missions now and had some time to form some opinions, good and bad. First, the good.

The Diadem is Boring. Just flat out boring. There's something so boring about a huge mob of people murdering the heck out of everything that crosses their path.

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I fixed the first part of the post for you.

let the people who like the diadem, i think you misunderstand a lot SE want to reach a lot of taste, it's just something not right about the loot , it's infinite when other thing is not and have better stat even if it need luck is a bad idea, i think the stat should be equal at least.
also i think the game needed something like this but harder, some boss with mechanics maybe ? not only suggesting zerg fest, also if there is too much people, some groups don't get the loot.
At finish , yeah zerg fest is crazy farm and don't get skill involved. And some players like this.
as it's said in many comment, there is not only hardcore raider in the game.
And there few hardcore raider FC btw. it's important i think to get this game not only focused on raid.
Not to mention the fact some players would love to do the raid like hardcore raider but certainly have a friendly FC not so hardcore. So if this fc do 6 hours of try by week, it's nice to get other thing to do in the game.
But now i can understand people saying you should not get gear with more stat than raid/eso gear, and agree.
It's the first part of what i wanted to this game, a way to reach some stat you want, but i think rng would not help. the fact we will soon be able to overmeld raiding/memoquartz stuff is realy what i was after. you choose your stats, the game do,'t choose every stat for you

You won't be able to overmeld tome/raid gear. It's only the open slots, so 2 (maybe 3) materia slots at most.

maybe, i don't know, but it's still the case where you choose your stat

Stat choice is an illusion. There are distinct priorities on what you need. Basically it's "do I meet accuracy cap for the raid tier," followed by whatever secondaries are preferred for your class. Since there's only one/two slots per piece that means you slot in as much accuracy as you need (if any) and then start stacking all the fan favorites like Crit, Det, Skill Speed/Spell Speed (if Spell Speed is even valued for casters? I dunno I don't play them).

There won't be any true customization, just more ways to tell if the person you're playing with doesn't understand how stats work and melded their stuff poorly because SE gave them more wiggle room to be an idiot.

Basically it's just adding another layer of cost (gil) or dumb RNG grinding (spirit bonding) to make raid and tome gear BiS for the single patch it'll be relevant until the next ineptly-named "catch-up patch" drops and Diadem poops all over gear progression again.

At some point you wonder when they'll just stop releasing raid tiers or tomestones all together and just replace it with other content like Diadem.

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Originally Posted by PocketFox

• The damage threshold to get credit on higher ranked mobs -- specifically V's and stars -- is way too high. Way too high. If your group is down even one person, you will not get credit on V's and stars, and even IV's can be iffy.

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I don't think this is actually the case, but instead it's a problem with the game design. Even with only 4 parties at a camp, I've noticed that myself and party members don't always register on the mob's threat list. I'm betting damage doesn't count toward credit if you're not on the threat list, so these people are hurting everyone else's chances of getting credit by doing damage.

tldr: tag Star mobs asap to get on threat list

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Originally Posted by PocketFox

The damage threshold to get credit on higher ranked mobs -- specifically V's and stars -- is way too high. Way too high. If your group is down even one person, you will not get credit on V's and stars, and even IV's can be iffy.

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I've had this problem too, especially if there are several groups killing the same mob. All 8 people will attack the mob from the spawn but still no credit given and therefore no loot. Its one of the main reasons people are even going; they want loot. Its definitely something that needs to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Adnama18

I've had this problem too, especially if there are several groups killing the same mob. All 8 people will attack the mob from the spawn but still no credit given and therefore no loot. Its one of the main reasons people are even going; they want loot. Its definitely something that needs to be addressed.

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Had this happen for a few V's and stars by now. It's so frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Deezee

At some point you wonder when they'll just stop releasing raid tiers or tomestones all together and just replace it with other content like Diadem.

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ahem : No, You may think that but it's pointless to get other way to get stuff and delete others way. atm i don't see a very good piece from raiding be replaced by a diadem one,
The tank 210 gordian Pants by exemple, it work so nice with other eso stuff. In diademe you need to get the luck to get the stat you want. exept if i get a pant with same stat i don't think i can replace it by the raid one. Btw i have do 10 diademe and i got since monday, a bad Tank Pants, a bad Tank Boot and a average tank ring. only the ring is usable. I think it would be frustrating to get only the stat you want by luck and have to grind endlessly.

I said what I did because as everyone knows (and is quick to point out here and other places where the conversation comes up) raiders only make up a small percentage of people play this game. Diadem seems to be a hit with players who don't raid as much, and SE has been disappointed with the amount of activity in raids for a while now. At some point a suit from SE who doesn't care so much about the game is going to look at the numbers (small percentage of people actually doing content that takes a large portion of the budget to develop) and make the call to kill it.

Not only that but even most people who raid thought the current raid was bad for whatever reason. I'm just having a hard time seeing the continuation of raids in this game unless something amazing happens with 3.2's raid. I don't personally want raids and difficult content to go away but it isn't hard to see why that might be a direction this game takes.

Enough people are registering complaints about not getting chests that I'm sure they will adjust the amount of contribution your group needs to be rewarded, if not at the next hotfix then at least by patch 3.15.

On the first day of patch 3.1, I incorrectly assumed that only the group who claimed the enemy (first hit) gets a chest, because my party was getting nothing on every single enemy, even though they all took a long time to kill and we were there from the beginning of each one until they died, doing the best dps we could. People were bummed out about it, like "are you serious?", effort for nothing.

Leeching is a valid point, if it's possible to stop players from rolling on loot when they never touched the enemy because they were somewhere else gathering, that would help. But in return, the people who go off to gather need to be given a higher spawn rate for the steel spoils tokens, and the group they are leaving behind needs to not be punished by getting no chests from enemies because their dps was lowered.

Join-in progress would be hard to implement without changing fuel fees to enter. Is it right to take a mission voucher if the player joins a party which only has 10 minutes left on the clock? Aether currents also hard to change. If you didn't need to collect them every time, then people would fly away right at the start, leaving behind new players who don't have them yet.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

I fixed the first part of the post for you.

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https://i.imgflip.com/q0wgm.jpg

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Originally Posted by Deezee

I'm just having a hard time seeing the continuation of raids in this game

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The team/Yoshida seem to love raids and see it as a core component of the game. When Yoshida posts the Letter from the Producer, he always talk about new raid tiers, congratulates the world first clear groups, uses player data from those raids to make job balance adjustments and so forth. I think the percentage of player participation in raids is not so small if you consider that more casual players may enter them 6 or 12 months after release, once the difficulty has been reduced. I'm personally not a hardcore raid guy, so their removal wouldn't bother me, but it's hard to see that happening in my opinion. The player participation for raids gradually increases over time, as they are repurposed as less punishing content when they get older. T4 Coil became quite active when they added crafting materials for relevant gear in that patch, and people were outgearing the challenge.

I agree with the poster 100%! Diadem is really really fun, but it can be disappointing when, as far as you can see, all of your party are breaking their backs to put damage on a target, and you wind up with a bronze or even worse NOTHING! General feeling in my FC is that we LOOOOOOOOOVE Diadem so far. Just tweak some things for us please. One problem we are seeing with the damage threshold issue is DOTs. It seems with that many people on one mob there is an upper limit of how many of a dot can "stick" to a mob... and so jobs like (especially) summoner get screwed on damage contribution because if there are too many summoners on the mob summoner 4 or 5's DOTs get ignored. Don't know this for fact, its just what we are seeing. Is this really happening SE? Other than these issues EM's are way fun.

They also need to give us the ability to lock diadem gear. Risky to not accidentally sell your 210 drops :O

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Originally Posted by maelor

One problem we are seeing with the damage threshold issue is DOTs. It seems with that many people on one mob there is an upper limit of how many of a dot can "stick" to a mob... and so jobs like (especially) summoner get screwed on damage contribution because if there are too many summoners on the mob summoner 4 or 5's DOTs get ignored. Don't know this for fact, its just what we are seeing. Is this really happening SE? Other than these issues EM's are way fun.

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I'd like to know the answer to that question too, I'm sure somebody around here knows. Is there are limit on how many DoTs/debuffs can be on a target, or is it just a display limit but additional DoTs are still taking effect even though they are not displayed on the monster status bar?

It's a total of 60, but only a max of 30 are made visible.

Few things - on mobile

1. Credit threshold. I would like to see this changed, but in the meantime it's better to only have 3 or 4 parties farming an area easier to get credit until you're geared or skilled enough to output enough dps to be with the zero group.

2. It would be nice if the ishgard airship worked like the fc airship where you could go in with 2-24 players. I think it'd cut down on the gathering / farming tensions. Or I wouldn't mind seeing stars have spawn requirements like a ranks where gathering could play a role.

I DFed this, and had a few people who's dps was less than stellar, most notably a blm with a rotation of fire3 bliz3 fire3 bliz3. We missed a lot of chests due to not being able to meet the dps threshold.

Maybe this is SE's way of pushing people to learn their jobs in the absence of a parser...

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Originally Posted by maelor

I agree with the poster 100%! Diadem is really really fun, but it can be disappointing when, as far as you can see, all of your party are breaking their backs to put damage on a target, and you wind up with a bronze or even worse NOTHING! General feeling in my FC is that we LOOOOOOOOOVE Diadem so far. Just tweak some things for us please. One problem we are seeing with the damage threshold issue is DOTs. It seems with that many people on one mob there is an upper limit of how many of a dot can "stick" to a mob... and so jobs like (especially) summoner get screwed on damage contribution because if there are too many summoners on the mob summoner 4 or 5's DOTs get ignored. Don't know this for fact, its just what we are seeing. Is this really happening SE? Other than these issues EM's are way fun.

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Just to clarify, the chest you get is not representative of your contribution. You either get credit and the mob drops a chest of some sort or you don't.

I really like the diadem. And i use the df only for several reasons.

Of course it is frustrating if you dps'ed like crazy and in the end there is no chest... And yes i think it should be fixed...

What i really dont like is the "me, me, me" thinking of some players... They refuse to let a class get an upgrade in gear (not everyone is doing Alex savage - me included) because they believe the +1-3 points for their pegasus is more important. I gladly pass if the group decides to use greed on 210 items only if you can use it with the current class. But there will always be the one person who doesnt care at all... And since we cannot vote kick in the diadem, more lazy and selfish ppl will use the rules in there for their own profit only.

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Of course it is frustrating if you dps'ed like crazy and in the end there is no chest... And yes i think it should be fixed...

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No, I play with 3/4 fc member and we always get chest. You just need to know how and when to dps.

Had a run through of this...good tank item drops, get outrolled by a ninja who "needs it for their 55 tank". was the 1 random in our group among 7 FC members.

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Originally Posted by Bravely_Default

Had a run through of this...good tank item drops, get outrolled by a ninja who "needs it for their 55 tank". was the 1 random in our group among 7 FC members.

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And ? Did you know that you can NEED Item if you make a full party ? It's not that hard when you are 7 to find a random last Pu. You can even LootMaster if you want.

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Originally Posted by NamoNanamo

No, I play with 3/4 fc member and we always get chest. You just need to know how and when to dps.

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I got the problem with a fc alliance, i am sure they can nicely play Job and have good dps, so i think have too much people can also ruin it, because some party was shooting not get loot .
You need to dps correctly but also not have too much party in the same area.
In this case we was certainly 7 party at Dino island, so V and Star HP never go down as fast XD.
still we need to DPS the higher we can to get the loot, healer should clearic stance when it's possible and all, but when there a lot of people it seem harder to get credit.
I think maybe there a Limit of Loot for every party, but it's speculation
If it's the case you can have a good average dps, but out of 7 party maybe somes have higher dps and then you don't loot.
So i think farm area with so much Party can be realy frustrating.
At least when you don't get loot with your Party, don't disband there a 2 hours cooldown, go farm somewhere else